Nipping

[luv2napp]

Most of you know Danny, my rescued puppy mill dog. We've had him for 16 months now and he's coming along great. He still won't walk out front, even though I take him out all the time, but that's ok, He's happy in his backyard and enjoys life.

 

Anyhow, my question right now is this: Are there different types of herding styles? Danny uses his eye when playing with the raquetball, which I figured is normal for a Border Collie. However, when my husband leaves the house, Danny likes to "escort" him to the door. He'll run back and forth until he leaves. So, it wasn't an issue until recently. Now he'll get so excited that he nips as hubby is leaving. This morning, I happened to be standing in the way and he accidently got me. And he's not gentle about it. I have quite the bruise and tooth mark. He's not being mean, I just don't think he knows what he's doing. Am I making sense?

 

I know I have to put a stop to this and we're working on it. He usually stops if I just hold my finger out. So, is he just doing what instinct tells him to, what he was bred for?

[ejano]

Most of you know Danny, my rescued puppy mill dog. We've had him for 16 months now and he's coming along great. He still won't walk out front, even though I take him out all the time, but that's ok, He's happy in his backyard and enjoys life.

 

Anyhow, my question right now is this: Are there different types of herding styles? Danny uses his eye when playing with the raquetball, which I figured is normal for a Border Collie. However, when my husband leaves the house, Danny likes to "escort" him to the door. He'll run back and forth until he leaves. So, it wasn't an issue until recently. Now he'll get so excited that he nips as hubby is leaving. This morning, I happened to be standing in the way and he accidently got me. And he's not gentle about it. I have quite the bruise and tooth mark. He's not being mean, I just don't think he knows what he's doing. Am I making sense?

 

I know I have to put a stop to this and we're working on it. He usually stops if I just hold my finger out. So, is he just doing what instinct tells him to, what he was bred for?

 

Doorways are a trigger area. My approach would be that,while you are working on a solution to the problem, be proactive and don't let him near the door when your husband leaves. If Danny "gets away" with the nipping at the door, he may start to generalize the behavior, nipping in other places at other people.

 

As for BC nipping on sheep, other people are far more experienced about addressing nipping behavior. Willful nipping is not encouraged, though I believe a dog may be taught a grip command. My limited experience has been that Brodie, especially had a tendency to try to grip because of excitement (not too different from Danny at the door "something's getting away...something's getting away...got to GET IT!"). His "punishment" was to be called off the sheep. As he's grown in experience and confidence, his excitement level has smoothed out, though I do keep an eye on his threshold. His instincts are good, I think. Just yesterday in the barn I had my back turned to Lamb Chops with Brodie in front of me. Lamb Chops came trotting up (though with no malice aforethought) and Brodie quickly put himself between me and the sheep, going for his nose as is "fair". Though he didn't connect, Brodie's actions were enough of a threat to stop Lamb Chops in his tracks. So I think my Brodie has my back should a sheep intend harm and that's a good thing.

 

Liz

[juliepoudrier]

I think it's more likely the result of overexcitement than specifically herding behavior. Nipping/gripping is not standard procedure for moving livestock. Young, inexperienced or overfaced dogs will bite, but it's not encouraged and most get past that behavior pretty quickly. Proper biting for a working dog would be when the dog is being threatened/challenged by stock or the stock are refusing to move forward (say into a chute or trailer) and the dog needs to do some convincing (in either case the biting isn't random: for sheep or cattle that have turned on a dog, the proper bite is on the nose; for sheep or cattle that are not moving forward, the proper bite is low on a hind leg).

 

Are border collies more likely to nip when overexcited than other breeds? I don't know, but I don't think nipping such as you describe is entirely attributable to herding behavior. I have one youngster who, if running around the yard in excitement, will run up to me and put his teeth on my leg, but I've never thought of it as herding behavior.

 

J.

[urge to herd]

I'll defer to folks much more experienced in working dogs than I, but can make a couple recommendations about working with Danny.

 

Teach him a 'go to bed' or similar command. Work on this when there's no coming or going happening. When Hubby is about to leave, have Danny go to his spot and settle. Hubby leaves, no problem. You'll need to be right there with Danny the first few times, I'd think, to encourage him to maintain his down/stay.

 

Is Hubby making a fuss when he leaves? Or is he making it no big deal - that's the preferred strategy.

 

Practice this, have Hubby go out, wait a minute, come inside and do the no big deal attitude. You're wise to nip this in the bud, (pun alert!) because this behavior often escalates.

 

Reinforce heavily for a while. If you can, reinforce with something quiet that he likes - a good chewie, a little massage, or a special treat that he only gets when Hubby leaves. You don't want to set up an expectation for something big and boisterous - stay calm and low key.

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth

[SecretBC]

Yes, you need to teach him a different behavior for this time of the day -- one that is not compatible to nipping or trying to stop people from leaving the house.

 

The easiest would be a down or a sit -- in a specific spot, as mentioned above, which can be a mat or a crate.

 

If he is anxious about your husband leaving, perhaps giving him a food toy (ie: Kong with food in it) will help to distract him and make him believe that people leaving is a good thing.

 

My dogs used to circle me and fret about me leaving as I got ready, until I started the Kong routine. Now they practically usher me out the door and can't wait for me to leave.

[luv2napp]

Thank you all for the advice. I'm pretty sure it will be easy to get him out of this habit...he's such a good boy and listens very well. As Juliepoudrier said, it seems he's doing this out of overexcitement. I feel like he's just enjoying his life so much now and my heart swells to see him so happy. He really enjoys when hubby comes home, which is a huge step. He even rooroo's because he's so happy!

 

I'll work on the nipping!

[beachdogz]

As Juliepoudrier said, it seems he's doing this out of overexcitement. I feel like he's just enjoying his life so much now and my heart swells to see him so happy.

I'll work on the nipping!

 

Hope I'm not hijacking...but is this behavior related to when a dog "works" other dogs or nips at them? My new shelter dog does this....he appears to be a border collie, however, he is very laid back. Seems like wherever he came from he was never with dogs or in a house. He has been content to just sit and observe everyone...except that when the dogs start to run and chase a ball, he runs and nips at them. Correcting him will stop the action, and he's back to just watching. This seems to be his only way to do what he may think is playing or interacting with them. So is there no hope of his ever interacting with the other dogs on that level since he is not allowed to do this? Don't get me wrong -- I don't like it and neither do the other two.

[bc4ever]

Oh boy, does this sound familiar! Scooter used to do the same thing. It started with my husband leaving in the morning, then escalated to other people leaving. The way the house is built, he could make a complete circle; down the hall, through the dining room, kitchen, then back down the hall. He would start in the kitchen, make the loop, picking up speed and crouching lower each time he went around until the person opened the door to leave, then he would bark and nip at their heels.

 

We never made any big deal about our coming and going when he was a puppy, so I'm not sure how this started. Someone thought it might be a herding thing, which it might have been (he had very strong herding instincts) but it seemed to be more of an anxiety/excitement issue. He sensed when someone was preparing to leave--their body language, picking up keys, even saying, "Welll..." But, he didn't do it if they were just getting up to go to another room.

 

It was something we continuously worked on with him. We taught him to go to his place upstairs and wait till he was released. Eventually, he started taking himself upstairs when he knew someone was leaving, without us having to tell him to.

 

This is definitely something you want to address as soon as possible, as it will get worse. It's not good for the dog to get that upset and out of control, and your guests won't appreciate being "escorted" out that way either. What one person calls a "nip" another person might call a bite.

[jvw]

Just as a side note, I don't think it has anything to do with herding. Over the years I've known several dogs that displayed this behavior. None of them border collies or BC mixes.

 

FWIW

Jennifer