Eileen Stein Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 There was recently a thread elsewhere on the Boards which discussed the relatively new phenomenon of cyber competitions for dogs. Basically, you can video your dog performing a canine sport -- either an established one or a newly-developed-for-cyber-competition one -- and send the video in to an organization, which will judge the performance and will award a title if the performance is judged to meet set criteria. There is much that could be said -- and was said -- about this phenomenon, and even though this is a novel topic, most of the discussion fell into well-established grooves. However, I would like to focus only on one particular sidelight that arose in the discussion. One of the posters said about her dog: "he does get a huge kick out of performing for the camera, too." "Have you never had a dog who loved to work in front of the camera? It is a true joy to do video work with such a dog." "He adores working in front of the camera" I am very, very curious about the mental processes that would cause a dog to "perform for the camera." Of course, I'm sure we've all had the experience of taking pictures of a dog and having the dog be uncomfortable with the photographer's face being blocked by a camera that "stares at" and follows the dog. Some dogs shed this apparent discomfort rather quickly while some dogs never do, but it's easy for me to understand why they react in this way. But has anyone ever had the experience of a dog appearing to particularly enjoy performing in front of a camera? As I understand it, this would be a camera set up on a tripod. I'm puzzled why the dog would attribute significance to "working in front of" this object -- more and different significance than working before or in the presence of any other stationary object, such as a mineral feeder or a plant stand. Is it thought that the dog understands that this object is taking pictures of him which will be seen by judges or a live audience somewhere? Has anybody ever seen any evidence of something like that? If so, has anybody ever tried the experiment of putting just the tripod there with no camera, and seeing whether the dog continues to display the same special enjoyment? When I read the above quoted statements, I initially wrote them off as projection or anthropomorphism on the part of the poster, and I still think this is the most likely explanation, but I wanted to see if others might have observed the same thing, or might have a theory about why a dog WOULD "get a huge kick out of performing for the camera" (especially with regard to what the dog's thought processes might be with regard to the camera). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I don't have any that show excitement toward a camera, I have a couple of heelers that avoid it and will actually retreat to a kennel or dog house, I'm thinking that they view lens as a big eye that they can't read the intent of. With that said, I guess it would be possible for a dog to get excited by the same lens, compounded by the dog reading a change in the owner due to the owner being aware of being on camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelliwic Border Collies Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 But has anyone ever had the experience of a dog appearing to particularly enjoy performing in front of a camera? Yup, all the Border Collies I've owned. I'm NOT implying that they somehow know what a camera is or that they are "performing," but I take photos of my pups as soon as they enter my life, and often. Depending on what type of shots I'm hoping to get, the "photo shoot" will involve play, food, a squeaky toy, sheep, or some else really cool. So my dogs have made the connection that the camera means Good Times, and get VERY excited when they see me pull it out, usually heading to the door (I take most photos outside), or sometimes start performing their most recently-trained Stupid Pet Tricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 The only one of mine that I would consider a 'poser' is JJ but I don't think it's because he actually likes to have his picture taken. I think it's because of our reaction when we take his picture. I think he feeds off our excitement/happiness/smiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Yup, all the Border Collies I've owned. I'm NOT implying that they somehow know what a camera is or that they are "performing," but I take photos of my pups as soon as they enter my life, and often. Depending on what type of shots I'm hoping to get, the "photo shoot" will involve play, food, a squeaky toy, sheep, or some else really cool. So my dogs have made the connection that the camera means Good Times, and get VERY excited when they see me pull it out, usually heading to the door (I take most photos outside), or sometimes start performing their most recently-trained Stupid Pet Tricks. Thanks, Megan, but my question is a little bit different. Let me try to get at it this way. Suppose you were to do X (any activity that the dog enjoys) in a location (ring, yard, etc.) where there was a camera taking video of what you are doing. Would the dogs show any greater signs of happiness than if you were doing the same activity in the same place with no camera present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelliwic Border Collies Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Would the dogs show any greater signs of happiness than if you were doing the same activity in the same place with no camera present? Ah, I've gotcha now. Being more enthusiastic over the same activity when in the presence of a camera; probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I videotape my dogs' practice sessions in agility frequently, and I can say they don't give a hoot about it. They see me setting up the tripod probably the same way they see me arranging the equipment - just another thing that's done before we start playing. Maybe the handlers of these "camera-happy" dogs are more enthusiastic, knowing that the video will be published somewhere, and the dogs feed off that energy? And that this enthusiasm is attributed to the dog "loving the camera"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippin's person Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 This is not about happiness exactly; however... Pippin was supposed to be a flyball dog. We trained her diligently from the time she was a wee thing. She would do the pieces individually but we could never get her to put the whole thing together--she showed total lack of interest. In particular, she always "stutter-stepped" between the hurdles. So, on the advice of a teammate, we decided to video tape her running to see if we could figure out what was going on. Lo and behold, she was perfect--driven, fast, beautiful over the jumps. We stopped video tapping and she went back to the old Pippin. Brought out the camera, perfect running. It was the weirdest thing (I should post it on the other "weirdest thing your BC does" thread). We were just about done with flyball by that point, but we were only ever able to get a good run out of Pip if the video camera was running. I have no idea why other than maybe a different kind of attention coming her way. ETA: no tripod was involved--handheld video camera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelliePup Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Perhaps the dog isn't really reading the camera, but the handler instead? There may be a slight change in the handler's attitude about having the camera set up and recording a run.For example, when I first started recording training sessions, I was always a bit nervous because I wanted that perfect take. My dogs would read that energy off of me and, depending on the dog's personality, perform differently than if the camera wasn't recording. The best I can describe it is the dog goes on high alert. I have one that will shut down and another that will amp up performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretBC Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I know that I act differently when I am being filmed vs. not. I am more aware of what I'm doing and probably more clear with my signals. As a result, the practice runs that I video usually tend to be pretty good. I am quite sure that the dog doesn't have a clue he/she is being recorded and is simply reacting to whatever vibe the handler is throwing off. My dogs do NOT run any differently at trials where they are being taped vs. when they are not -- Because I run them the same way at trials regardless. Secret & Kaiser both grew up with cameras in their faces (Secret even more so than Kaiser). They are both fantastic posers. But I would never say they both "perform better" for the camera. They don't have that kind of awareness. And I still think "video titles" are rather pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I have no trouble believing that the handler could be reacting differently when the activity is being video-ed, and the dog is picking up on that. If I were the handler, it would seem logical to me to try to analyze how I was feeling, behaving, projecting a difference, and how I could achieve that without a camera being present. Robin, that is a very intriguing story. Did Pippin show any interest in or awareness of the camera as this was going on? If so, how was that manifested? Was the videographer a person of interest to her? Was the videographer someone who was present during runs that were not being videotaped? Were these videotaped performances during actual competitions, or practice sessions? Did you ever run her in competition when there was an audience and the "keyed-up" tension of a real event, but no video camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I have noticed that dogs who are being photographed or videoed in an activity, often get very excited about it. I don't think it has anything to do with the camera though. When an owner is putting a dog through its paces in front of a camera there is a natural tendency to want the dog to do well. Even if they are not aware of it, excitement is not only perceptibly heightened, but there is a component of anxiety present. "How does Jacko look?" "Is he going to do well so people can see how special/clever/talented he is?" Dogs are well able to pick up on this, and their behavior may change. Dogs described as "camera shy" may become worried, withdrawn or confused by the subtle or overt changes in the owner's "energy." Dogs described as show-offs may fall in with their owner's excitement, they may be motivated more strongly to "perform" as the owner is clearly showing an investment in the dog doing well. I see this on the street when I photograph dogs. The ones who have owners that are not aware of the photographs being taken do not react much one way or another - even if they see me and the camera. The "proud parent" owner will often stimulate the dog with their excitement causing it to bounce around and show a lot of nervous energy. The owners that have mixed feelings about the pictures, (Do I want this? How do I look? How does the dog look?) will often have an effect of causing the dog to look worried or suspicious. By the way, for those of you who have issues about people photographing your dog: I usually ask first. If the shot is too good to miss, I will shoot, and ask the owner if they would like to see it. I ask if they want copies. If they have objections, I delete the images from the camera on the spot. I do feel that an unattended dog is "fair game." Photographing a dog or person on a public street is not illegal, whatever you may have heard, nor is displaying or selling the image. At least it isn't where I live. But I do try to connect with the owners and offer them jpegs. All they have to do is e-mail me. Most people love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Cressa Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I know TRoy at least behaviors different for the camera. At least that what it seems. I dont have a "Real" camera I just use my phone now It could just be the atmosphere when we are getting an area set up for a photo shoot... but Troy will normally be the 1st dog in position. He will just set himself up. We can set decorations out for the season without the same response. But thats focus is mainly just for pixs. He is the one normally always looking directly at the camera and pose ready. It doesnt seem to matter who is holding the camera. We laugh cause Troy is the one who seems to find the "pretty" spot to get his pix taken when hiking. If I am filming he doesn't seem to care one way or another. Cressa I am pretty sure would roll her eyes if she could. As for whether or not they know they are being flim for a competition... For CRessa it doesnt matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippin's person Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I have no trouble believing that the handler could be reacting differently when the activity is being video-ed, and the dog is picking up on that. If I were the handler, it would seem logical to me to try to analyze how I was feeling, behaving, projecting a difference, and how I could achieve that without a camera being present. Robin, that is a very intriguing story. Did Pippin show any interest in or awareness of the camera as this was going on? If so, how was that manifested? Was the videographer a person of interest to her? Was the videographer someone who was present during runs that were not being videotaped? Were these videotaped performances during actual competitions, or practice sessions? Did you ever run her in competition when there was an audience and the "keyed-up" tension of a real event, but no video camera? That was part of the weirdness. She showed no indication of having knowledge of the video other than her improved performance--she could surely see the camera, but she didn't pay it any particular attention that I can remember. The only thing that was different about the context was the presence of the camera--the person filming was always around and frequently filming (though not her). These were only in practice sessions and we never did actually run her in a competition--I'm not even sure we went to any more competitions after this happened. But, it was quite marked that she went back to being uninterested when the camera wasn't there. I do think there might have been a different "vibe" among the folks watching when the camera was out and that probably intensified as we all realized how much better she ran when the camera was running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 ETA - Elaine, I see you clarified to ask if the dog noticed the camera when they were going about their tasks...I see Robin reacting - he'll spot the camera and get all perky. Brodie stays pretty much the same and Ladybug doesn't really like it. I can't say that Robin "loves" the camera, but he reacts to it -- I think I've trained him into reacting to it because I've been taking pictures of him since he was two days old. I didn't start taking portraits of Brodie until he was about 10 weeks old (we had not started out with the idea of bringing two pups home!) and he too is comfortable with the camera. I'm not sure what their thought processes are - I've never given them treats for posing but I do praise them, so perhaps they're just pleasing me. It's easy to take their pictures. Two words Robin does recognize (again having heard them almost since birth): "He's beautiful!" He'll sit right up and go into his glamor pose when someone says those words. First portrait 10 months old 1.5 years old (Some people think this was taken at a photographer's studio but he's actually sitting on a snowbank on the north side of the old horse barn. Brodie (also on the snowbank) 7 months 1 year old 1.3 years old It's difficult to get Ladybug to look at a camera (unless you're holding a ball.) My Shetlands both show reactions to the camera. I began taking pictures of them both at the same time. From the first time I saw her, Silver Belle was at ease with the camera and Rose avoids it. Interestingly, Silver Belle is far friendlier. Rose is rather flighty. She will eat out of your hand but it's difficult to touch her. Silver Belle will practically climb up on your lap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I do not think that dogs "know" they are being filmed. I doubt very much they understand what "being filmed" is and why they should respond in any way to it. Tweed understands the shutter mechanism means he's done posing though, which is a fun party trick. I can put the camera on a timer, ask him to look at it and he will gaze into the lens until the shutter goes, at which point he knows himself to be done "posing." While I like to joke that he was a super model in a previous life, in reality he just knows that the shutter signals an end to the behaviour I asked him to do, and that cookies will be forthcoming. Just as my dogs know that the computer shutting down means bed time potty break and will all get up and move toward the door. RDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLloydJones Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I do not think that dogs "know" they are being filmed. I doubt very much they understand what "being filmed" is and why they should respond in any way to it. I do think that they can understand that certain behaviours are expected of them and link that to the artifacts of photography (camera, tripod or whatever) or just to their handler's actions and body language. This is not much different from babies learning to smile by reacting to a mother's response. I love the way that Tweed can "hold a pose" until he hears the shutter. I have struggled with Senneca, who has a perfect sense of timing and will squirm and turn her head just as the shutter goes off (even when I put the camera on a timer). She absolutely hated my DSLR and I could never get a posed photo of her. Smaller cameras are tolerated better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Just as my dogs know that the computer shutting down means bed time potty break and will all get up and move toward the door. RDM Venturing off topic here, but yep, when my dogs hear the little chime that says the computer has shut down, they leap up and race to the back door for the last potty break of the night. Just like Kat comes looking to lick the peanut butter knife when she hears the toaster pop.... J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretBC Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Secret had a photo session last night (her book came and we needed pictures for the blog ) -- There is no doubt that this is a dog who enjoys being in front of the camera. FWIW, she offered these poses on her own. lol http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2628246180780.2144174.1094094414&type=1&l=f9c1563bce Now if only I had 1) Better lighting and 2) a better camera. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 Odin is the opposite. He seems to detest the camera. I have a hard time getting good pictures of him even though I have photographed him his whole life. Often he'll be doing something really cute and when he sees me put the camera to my face, he stops. He also is less obedient when I try to take pictures, as in, its hard for me to photo or video him doing tricks because he just seems to stare at me. I bet it is the loss of eye contact or something? If I work with him and my husband operates the camera, there's no discernable difference in his behavior that I've noticed. Although, I really think this is a question for Ouzo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kling Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 I don't really have anything intelligent to add, just... That's Skip (RIP), sire to our Bonny. He was absolutely a camera hound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Although, I really think this is a question for Ouzo... LOL - I just saw the thread My dog is so well conditioned to the camera that it's almost impossible for me to grab my Canon without him noticing and showing up in a hurry with a toy in mouth, ready to throw it at my feet and let the ceremony start. I don't need a toy to grab his attention and to make eye contact through the lens. I have countless images of him holding a toy in his mouth, running towards the camera and staring straight into my eyes. When I point my camera to something other than him, he gets gelous and wants a piece of the action. He's also very in tuned with the auto focus beep (when I use Single Shot or AI Focus modes, of course, as opposed to the silent AI Servo) to the point where he'd stay still until he hears the beep, then he knows he can move. Most of the time the beep coincides with me pressing the shutter, except when I play with manual lenses or decide to use a different focus point - that's when he drives me nuts as he thinks he's done the second the camera beeps )) He was smiling for the camera just this morning - but it was mostly due to the fresh snow - he looves it! And no, I wasn't holding any toy to get him to look at me at this speed. And yes, he knows how to work it Another smile while holding a ball (proof I wasn't) As for being filmed, he hates it when I do it with the DSLR - he keeps posing and expecting to hear the beep that never comes, so he gets pissed and starts barking and running around - almost all my videos of him involve a lot of barking for this very simple reason - no beeping, darn it - how long is he supposed to hold that pose for?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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