Difference in Herding Styles between Border Collies, Aussies, Kelpies, Koolies, and other herders?

[Sue R]

Most of the working-bred Aussies are natural gathering dogs, not driving dogs. And while the ACD is considered a driving dog for the most part - there are some strong headers. My daughter has one. She's a ranch bred pup with some length of leg more like a Stumpy Tail Cattle Dog . She's super-fast and able to get around stock.

My comments were based on Vergil Holland's Herding Dogs - Progressive Training, and my own limited experience. Individual dogs and lines will vary, of course.

[Maja]

Oh, dear. Some post out of context really get the life of their own .

 

The horse and the tractor was a simile to show why some farmers switched from a non-BC herding breed (the horse) to a border collie (the tractor) and explain my earlier post - my opinion about an aspect of the process. Bu the world is full of human misery and injustice, and it is very hard to find a good simile that would not touch on a lot of human suffering.

 

Actually, the guy I had in mind when writing this, hires himself out with his tractor to work on other fields (he used to work on ours too), much like some border collie people I know who help sheep farmers to move sheep big time. He didn't buy a shiny New Holland, but an interesting cheap clonker with high work ethics and mud on its mud-flaps .

 

Maja

 

Maja

[Tea]

Maja

 

 

You're cool.......It is just that things are very complicated.

 

 

 

These things- the farms- the dogs- what has happened in the world are all related.

[appyridr]

On the prairies in Canada there are quite a few 'heelers' (non-reg.KC) working on ranches, in feedlots & loading stock for truckers. This I heard, much to my surprise, from a friend who moved there just a few years ago. They sometimes work side by side with other ranchers who prefer Border Collies. I have an ACD. He got me started in 'herding' in the all-breed world. Now I tell those people that working Wyatt is like driving a tractor. Working my BCs is like driving a Ferrari. ;-)

 

On another note, about breeding; I have another friend who is fairly new to the Open trial level. Has a bitch who has placed a few times, won a small trial here & there. Going to breed bitch to one of the top trial dogs in the US. However this handler is not aware that the Imp. sire of said bitch was sold by his breeder after owning/trialing him for just a year or two. He was a bit of a wash-out and didn't produce anything much better than himself. He & many of his offspring show quite a lot of tail in the air under pressure.

IMO, there are way too many examples of this within the well intentioned but inexperienced trial community. And big hats willing to use their stud dogs.

 

Personally 'I' love MY bitch & think she is wonderful, we have done well in some trials, big hats have tried to buy her & told me she is a talented dog. However I spayed her. I don't know enough about breeding, having only been in this for just under a decade. There are PLENTY of good puppies around from good dogs & some are her relatives. When I need another dog, I have quite a lot of choices where to find one.

I consider myself one of the very lucky ones to have found a mentor who was more than willing to share her great wealth of information about the breed, history, training, what makes a good dog,etc. We spent many many hours driving around the country to trials - me the sponge listening in fascination. Me - still trying to step up & meet the goals we set but usually sadly screwing up my dog(s) in one way or another. Lucky for me, they don't care or know any better. LOL And lucky for me, it is always the biggest thrill in my life to send one of my dogs on a big outrun whether training or trial. And to marvel at them.

cheers Lani

[Liz P]

Lani, the longer I am in the breed the more I realize that most cases fall somewhere in the grey zone rather than being black and white. There is no magic stud dog out there who will improve any bitch he is bred to, nor is there a magic bitch who will produce quality pups no matter what stud is used. Each dog has its strengths and weaknesses. The successful breeders know how to pick mates that compliment one another. Overall, I think a lot of the ultimate success or failure of dogs from good genetics comes down to whether or not a dog and handler get along.

 

There was a world famos stud dog who was sold many times before landing with someone who understood the way his mind worked and guided him to the very top. That handler admits that while he was one amazing dog, there were very few bitches he suited. Should he not have been bred at all?

 

Hopefully the person you know who is breeding her bitch picked that stud because he compliments her bitch. If not, she will be very dissapointed with the pups.