Advantix or Frontline?

[ejano]

Looking for a change for the pups' flea/tick preventative. I've been using Revolution and it really wasn't up to par last year. They came back from the farm with quite a few ticks of the flat gray variety and there must be deer ticks there as well, as there are deer.

 

Which is the better choice - Frontline or Advantix?

 

Also - when they're over in in tick country over at the farm, they're inevitably in the water as well -- does this mean a Preventic collar won't work?

 

Do Guinea Hens really help to reduce/prevent ticks -- if I'm adding sheep, what the heck...might as well throw in a few feathered fowl as well if they will work...but how do I keep them off of my cousin's oh so very well manicured lawn?

 

Liz

[alligande]

I used for frontline for 14 years and a couple of years ago it appeared to stop working, when my old lady got fleas and the staff at the practice I take the dogs to, had all switched to Advantix, which is what I am using now. I used Revolution for one month to get rid of the fleas (on vet techs recommendation) but was told it was great on fleas but was not intended for ticks, which in New England is a huge concern.

[toney]

There is a new flea preventative on the market- VET...can't remember the name but it starts with the word "vet". I have it but haven't applied it- it is a spot-on. Comfortis still works around here, but not for ticks, I think.

 

As far as guinea hens- yes, they do eat ticks- and mosquitos, and red ants, and crickets...but they are loud and they can really FLY- even as babies. Chickens eat the same types of bugs, as well. They don't fly as much and the hens are quieter than the guineas. HOWEVER, the only way to keep the chickens and guineas off those pretty manicured lawns is to keep them completely confined, no free ranging, which will do nothing to keep tick and other insect populations down.

 

I have worked chickens with my dogs. I would think working guineas would not be easy- they tend to fly when startled or irritated and can get gang up when they are threatened and scream loudly. One of my dogs hates working the chickens, the other will work them with a long suffering look on her face. My old dog loves working them- they move just at her speed- slooooow.

[juliepoudrier]

I used Frontline for a long time, until it stopped working and a vet assured me that I wouldn't kill my cats by putting Advantix on my dogs. Last year it seemed Advantix wasn't working as well as it had been. Right now I'm alternating between the two--hoping that if some pests are resistant to one, they won't be resistant to the other. Of course, I might just be speeding the resistance....

 

I'm going to see what I can find out about the new stuff Sue mentions.

 

As for guineas, mine were hatched and raised by bantam hens and so they never roamed much, which means they weren't disturbing my neighbors. But they were aggressive toward the chickens (over feed) and extremely noisy. When I moved, I didn't bring them for fear of sending my new neighbors into apoplectic fits (I figured the barking LGD was probably pushing it enough).

 

I didn't find that the guineas were any more likely to fly when being worked by dogs, but then mine were raised around dogs so probably didn't see them as a great threat--so you could work them with a dog pretty easily (if you could stand the noise while doing so). What killed me about the guineas was they were great flyers (always up on the barn roof, etc.), but when they needed to do so (like when they found themselves on the outside of the fence wanting in), they wouldn't fly for love nor money (nor with the assistance of a dog). Strange birds. I hope my free ranging chicken flock will help with the pests around here.

 

J.

[gcv-border]

FWIW, here in SW VA, Advantix did not work for me or members of the local SAR team (and they are always in the woods & fields for training purposes). I tried and tried with Advantix because I interpreted their literature/marketing to suggest that Advantix was better than Frontline. I stayed with Advantix longer than I should have because I wasn't convinced that Frontline would control ticks - having heard some local people say it didn't work for them. Then my vet told me to combine Frontline with the Preventic collar. (Note: she said do NOT use a Preventic collar if you are using Advantix.) The Frontline/Preventic combo is working for me.

 

It is my personal theory that the efficacy of Advantix vs. Frontline can depend on several factors - type of tick population, individual body chemistry of a dog, weather conditions, geography, tick resistance (as Julie suggests) - to name a few. I just throw that out there because I have heard so many differing opinions on which works best. Some people say that Advantix works for them, but not Frontline, and vice versa. There must be some other factors impacting the protective effects of each chemical.

 

If anyone can offer more insight into the new preventive (VET??) I would love to hear about it also. Is it only for fleas, or for ticks too?

 

Jovi

[Alchemist]

I've been using Frontline for about a year and a half now on Duncan (changed from Vectra, which he HATED). Although I've had people around here complain that it doesn't seem to be working any more for their dogs, I've never (yet) found an engorged tick on Duncan, so I think it's working. Last spring, at a friend's suggestion, I added a Preventic tick collar. (A lot of people around here do use both a tick collar and a topical, because ticks and Lyme are so prevalent). I've also heard that you shouldn't combine the Preventic tick collar with Advantix (same active ingredient, could result in overdose).

 

I've also been told that you should NOT let the tick collar get wet. They can get an unhealthy overdose if it gets wet while they're wearing it. I now take it off Duncan if he's going swimming or if he's pestering me to let him play outside, rainy day or not. Remembering to put it back on him is the hard part.

 

I just bought a new one today because I found a tick on me yesterday after our hike (crawling on my arm, fortunately - hadn't bitten me yet).

[juliepoudrier]

My big gripe about the Preventic collar is that it can't get wet. There's a river along the trail through tick heaven where I take my dogs. I would love to be able to protect them better against ticks, but when we go by the river, they like to go for a swim, especially in warm weather. I wonder if the Preventic collars would work if I waited till after our walks and put them on? Presumably the ticks wouldn't have gotten too far along (to getting attached on the dogs) by the time I got back from our walk and applied to collars?

 

J.

[MyTDogs]

IMO, Frontline spray works for ticks the best. All the spot-ons are sketchy, especially if your dog is getting wet (swimming or frequent baths). We have some people with insect bite allergic dogs using spot-ons once a week!

 

With Frontline spray you can control the amount you apply and the area of application. I spray mainly the legs & underside of the dog (where most ticks grab hold of the dog when they get on) so that the ticks are hit right away & are hopefully less likely to ever attach. If you think about it the spot-on is just the opposite- with the highest concentrations at the site of application (on the back) and lowest out around the legs where the ticks grab hold.

 

They have done resistance studies & found little to none. Most product "failures" are due to application errors and heavy environmental loads. Few products will actually repel the ticks effectively, so ticks will be found. What you hope is that they never actually attach!

 

As an aside, Comfortis has been known to kill ticks (that are on the dog at the time of administration). It only works on one type of tick (Brown dog?) and has no lasting effect.

 

HTH,

[Cindy Evans]

I don't think that the Frontline works as well for fleas as it used to, but don't have a problem with it for ticks. I also use the spray, but make my own. I use two of the largest size and add it to a pint of alcohol and make my spray. It covers better and as Cindy says you can spray the heaviest where you need it. It does better for the fleas as a spray also.

Cindy

[ejano]

There is a new flea preventative on the market- VET...can't remember the name but it starts with the word "vet". I have it but haven't applied it- it is a spot-on. Comfortis still works around here, but not for ticks, I think.

 

As far as guinea hens- yes, they do eat ticks- and mosquitos, and red ants, and crickets...but they are loud and they can really FLY- even as babies. Chickens eat the same types of bugs, as well. They don't fly as much and the hens are quieter than the guineas. HOWEVER, the only way to keep the chickens and guineas off those pretty manicured lawns is to keep them completely confined, no free ranging, which will do nothing to keep tick and other insect populations down.

 

I have worked chickens with my dogs. I would think working guineas would not be easy- they tend to fly when startled or irritated and can get gang up when they are threatened and scream loudly. One of my dogs hates working the chickens, the other will work them with a long suffering look on her face. My old dog loves working them- they move just at her speed- slooooow.

 

 

My apologies - I meant work as in work to control the tick population - Robin has all ready gone a round or two with the guinea hens at his birth farm...they just fly away. Chickens, yes. He's developing a light touch with chickens - his mother rounds them up every night, with every appearance of counting them and I apparently also have a chicken herding sheep (see pics. of Tulip over in another thread.)

 

I'm thinking the guineas might not be a suitable addition as they would likely find my cousin's lawn irresistible - it's just over the stone wall from the sheep paddock and the barn and he's all ready a bit put out. Pity. I believe they'd do a great deal of good. I'll have to think of a way to discourage them from flying over the wall.... I don't mind a bit of shrieking...it would be a good alert for predators, both two and four legged.

 

Liz

[Rave]

Last week my vet gave me Vectra, which she recommended over Frontline. I'm curious to see how it works. Just found 2 ticks on one of mine this weekend.

 

hmm, I seem to be reading some bad things about Vectra, anyone here have any experiences with it?

[Laurae]

Last week my vet gave me Vectra, which she recommended over Frontline. I'm curious to see how it works. Just found 2 ticks on one of mine this weekend.

 

hmm, I seem to be reading some bad things about Vectra, anyone here have any experiences with it?

 

I used Vectra after a rainy weekend in Oklahoma last October. Did not work. At. all. Big fat engorged ticks on multiple dogs, and I am sure I applied it correctly. I'm sticking to Frontline or Advantix.

[Alchemist]

Yes. My pup HATED Vectra 3D. He acted totally weird for about 24 hours after each time I gave it to him. Totally "jittery", like a spooky horse who thinks it sees a snake. I have heard through my grapevine that the solvent "carrier" causes a burning sensation, much like BenGay. I changed Duncan to Frontline and he was perfectly fine with that as a topical. My neighbor's dog hated Vectra as well, also acted weird after each application.

 

I know that vets recommend it because it can only be sold through vets, unlike Frontline or other products that you can purchase without a prescription. Check out Vectra's website, full of testimonials about how it enhances the profitability of the vet's practice.

 

I know that vet practices can't run at a loss; if they aren't making money through selling Vectra, they'll have to raise their prices. But... if there's a cheaper product that works as well, that doesn't cause my dog physical pain - someone explain to me why should I buy Vectra?

[MyTDogs]

I know that vet practices can't run at a loss; if they aren't making money through selling Vectra, they'll have to raise their prices. But... if there's a cheaper product that works as well, that doesn't cause my dog physical pain - someone explain to me why should I buy Vectra?

 

Not sure anyone- especially your vet- would recommend a product that "caused your dog physical pain". But to be clear any dog can have a reaction to any product & that doesn't automatically make the product bad. I believe the vehicle in these products is pretty much the same chemically.

 

Vectra3D has Dinotefuran a "newer" (not necessarily better) insecticide like immidacloprid (active ingredient in Advantage)FOR FLEAS ONLY. It also includes Permethrin- the same ingredient as in K9Advantix for ticks. What makes it different (better?) than K9Advantix is the addition of pyriproxifen an insect growth regulator that helps prevent immunity because it attacks the fleas on 2 fronts. K9Advantix II will soon be replacing regular K9Advantix & it has IGR as well so no real difference other than the applicator.

 

The drawbacks to Vectra- the volume is larger and the application is different than Advantage. I suppose being sold only thru vets is a drawback but it is evidenced on this and many other boards that people really could use some education (from their vets) about how to use these products properly & to their best advantage. Vectra is applied via the "zip line method"- start at the base of the tail, place the nozzle against the skin (part the hair coat) and in one continuous motion push the tube up to behind the skull while dispensing the product. This ensures even distribution of the product and also minimizes the larger volume factor. I have noticed that Vectra doesn't leave a greasy spot for days on the shoulder blades like K9Advantix does.

 

I am not bothering to compare with Frontline top spot because they are completely different chemicals (tho frontline does have an IGR)and top spot is pretty much useless against ticks (especially for the 3 months it claims) basically because of the application methods. Their applicator isn't very good either, IMO. The spray, as I said before, is my favorite against ticks.

 

HTH,

[juliepoudrier]

As others have pointed out in previous threads, IGRs pose a risk to other critters in the environment. It's a fine line we have to walk to protect our pets and also not destroy everything else around us.

 

Someone on the tick list recommended Repel lemon eucalyptus oil spray as a possible repellent. He said he had much success with it for repelling mosquitoes, but didn't know if it would also be effective against ticks. I sprayed my one dog I was setting sheep with this weekend (legs and belly only), and I found just one tick attached to him, but then again, he wasn't in the wooded areas all that much either. The other downside to the product is that it relies on an essential oil (lemon eucalyptus), and I spent a lot of time worrying whether I was putting my cats at risk by using the spray on my dogs.

 

I think I will start spraying with Frontline before heading out on walks. With the number of walks and the number of dogs I have, I imagine I will go through it, but it's better than spending hours pulling ticks!

 

I've been using Frontline lately (as noted earlier, alternating with Advantix), and although I have found some live attached ticks, I have also found quite a few dead ticks (still attached though, even though in my conversations with Merial, they swore that the ticks' mouth parts would be paralyzed within 24 hours of contact with the product, ergo, no transmission of tick disease, they claimed). I don't apply the product any differently than I did in the past when it wasn't working for me (yep, Merial tried to tell me I wasn't applying it properly when I first started having problems years ago, although they couldn't explain why the product used to work but had stopped working while my application methods hadn't changed, but whatever, better to claim user error than to admit that the product simply might not be working as well as it once did; after all, insects and their ilk have quite a long history of developing resistance to pesticides).

 

J.

[jrid]

I have 6 dogs and last year I used Zodiac flea and tick collars on all of them and only saw one tick the entire season. I also kept the same type flea and tick on a dog that roamed freely on the property and never found a tick on him either. I use a generic Program tab to keep the fleas at bay. I have enough of them left to last this year, but the manufacturer has taken them off the market. If I take a dog somewhere I think they might pick up a flea, I give them a Capstar.

[ejano]

How often would you spray the dog? Once a week? Once a month? I found most ticks on the dogs' chest, neck, and around their faces - they do a great deal of recreational digging in the tall grasses in the orchard. Coincidentally, this is where I most often pet my dog. The idea of putting the spray where it is most effective makes sense, but if I use a spray instead of a spot on and use it more often, how much more exposure to the chemical am I getting? Are the dogs getting? (Recognizing the balance between overexposure and exposure to disease...sigh)

 

Liz

[Rave]

Interesting. My vet told me to put Vectra in one spot, and I even specifically asked how I should apply it since it was a larger volume. Sigh.

[greg l]

With Natty, he still had ticks attach while using Advantix. We now use frontline plus and it seems to work. We still find ticks, but they are always moving not attached...Greg... We did'nt see fleas with either product

[bn_here_b4]

Does anyone use advantage multi? My vet recommended this for Jody and Bella. It is probably good stuff as no flea problems at all since we started it. However, it is supposed to prevent heartworms too and I'm not so pumped about using a topical treatment for heartworm prevention. If they get wet or something and lose effective flea control it is annoying but not that hard to fix. If the heartworm prevention is reduced I could end up with a real sick pair of dogs.

 

I would be interested in your thoughts and experiences.

 

Thanks

 

Cherrie

[MyTDogs]

The Moxidectin (HW prevention in Advantage Multi) is completely absorbed systemically in about 24 hours so no worries about washing that off Adv. Multi has no effect on ticks tho....

[bn_here_b4]

Thanks for the reassurance about the heartworm medicine. It helps to hear that from someone who isn't selling it to me.

 

I know I need to add a tick control product. For right now I check them both every night unless they go out of the mowed part of the yard. If they go in the tall grass they get checked before we come back in the house. These days I have more time than money so I'm praying vigilance will hold us till I can get another job.

[AgileBC's]

I just want to put in my two cents about Vectra. While my border collies didn't have any issues with it, my miniature schnauzers reacted horribly to it! They acted like it was burning their skin and they were lethargic after the fact. I did my best to wash it off with dish soap but it still seemed to bother them days afterwards. I will not use that again. I have never had a reaction like that with Frontline.

Angie

[Rave]

Not impressed with Vectra. Within a week of putting it on my dogs, my "tick-magnet" dog had yet another engorged tick on her. Back to Frontline for us.