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Working on Brodie's reactivity today. He was okay with a cocker spanial the other day after initial posturing. TOday we tried a bigger dog -- a rough coat blue merle smallish Lassie girl. Actually, without all that hair, she would have been about his size :rolleyes:

 

A dog twenty feet away and not "looking at me, Maw" is okay, especially if he's heading in the other direction. A dog with a glass wall door between him and her is okay. A dog coming right at him is NOT okay. Nor is he approaching another dog, for the meet and greet. He'll walk past another dog, or let another dog walk past him without too much of a fuss as long as distance is maintained/ If they're both sitting or otherwise relaxing, then he's good with that.

 

Does it matter if he's reactive to other dogs if he loves people, which he does. I'm not planning on taking him to obedience rally --his budget is going to be used up on herding lessons..... the CGC would be nice, but he's not going to be ready by the 20th - even though this is his only problem....everything else he has pretty well nailed.

 

I feel like I let the little guy down. He needed a second class at around six months of age and I just didn't get there....

 

Liz

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I have a dog who is reactive to other dogs and to people. I don't mind. Well, I do and I'm working with her on it. She will never be fixed, she's 5 now and is way better than she was, but she will never be out going and social on her own towards strange people or dogs. We manage when we have to, other wise she's happy to be left alone by our foster dogs etc. Some dogs just don't care for other dogs too much, just like we don't like every human we meet.

When you say he's not ok with approaching dogs or when he's approaching them, I do wonder how these approaches are happening and if there might be a better way of handling it? Are these interactions head on? This might be where the issue is. Some dogs do have issues meeting new/strange head on like this and sometimes it helps to diffuse the situation if you walk out in a bit of an arch with the two dogs parallel to each other, but arching away from each other. There could be some other signal that he picks up on that he just doesn't like too much. You say, if they are all relaxed he's fine, so maybe it would be wise to start watching the other dogs to see what they are doing. It could be the slightest of things too, slight stiffening, direct eye contact for too long etc. There is obviously a trigger in there somewhere... I know Daisy's is direct eye contact... she's usually fine if the other dogs don't even look at her....

Just my thoughts...

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Your dog's reactivity sounds EXACTLY like my dog's. If another dog comes to him and sniffs his butt for a reasonable (shortish) time, Buddy is fine. Maintain a couple feet distance, he's fine. Fence between them? Fine. But let them approach head-on, especially very quickly, and Buddy will switch on quickly and do a snarl/snap. For my dog, I think a big part of the trigger is direct eye contact, but I also know that part of the threshold is time itself. A very tiny, short face-on meeting, followed by a quick redirect, he can handle. Long-duration face-on creates trouble.

 

I keep my dog on leash anyplace where we might meet another dog. He's well-trained to stop when I tell him, and I have no trouble getting a leash on him 100% of the time if I see a dog approaching. This means he can run loose in specific situations and places where a meet-up is unlikely without warning. The fact that he doesn't really want to meet other dogs works to my favor in this situation: he'd rather be with me, on leash, than charge toward the new dog.

 

I'd love it if Buddy were a different dog who could play nicely with strangers, but he's not. I got him at two, and he's made progress, but as MsDaisyDuke said, he is who he is. My work with him has been as much about learning how to manage the way he is wired as it has been about changing the way he is wired. Most people seeing my dog would assume he's normal, though I always know that I'm managing him.

 

Mary

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Working on Brodie's reactivity today. He was okay with a cocker spanial the other day after initial posturing. TOday we tried a bigger dog -- a rough coat blue merle smallish Lassie girl. Actually, without all that hair, she would have been about his size :rolleyes:

 

A dog twenty feet away and not "looking at me, Maw" is okay, especially if he's heading in the other direction. A dog with a glass wall door between him and her is okay. A dog coming right at him is NOT okay. Nor is he approaching another dog, for the meet and greet. He'll walk past another dog, or let another dog walk past him without too much of a fuss as long as distance is maintained/ If they're both sitting or otherwise relaxing, then he's good with that.

 

Does it matter if he's reactive to other dogs if he loves people, which he does. I'm not planning on taking him to obedience rally --his budget is going to be used up on herding lessons..... the CGC would be nice, but he's not going to be ready by the 20th - even though this is his only problem....everything else he has pretty well nailed.

 

I feel like I let the little guy down. He needed a second class at around six months of age and I just didn't get there....

 

Liz

What methods have you been using to help desensitize him to the close proximity of other dogs?

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I have a dog who is reactive to other dogs and to people. I don't mind. Well, I do and I'm working with her on it. She will never be fixed, she's 5 now and is way better than she was, but she will never be out going and social on her own towards strange people or dogs. We manage when we have to, other wise she's happy to be left alone by our foster dogs etc. Some dogs just don't care for other dogs too much, just like we don't like every human we meet.

When you say he's not ok with approaching dogs or when he's approaching them, I do wonder how these approaches are happening and if there might be a better way of handling it? Are these interactions head on? This might be where the issue is. Some dogs do have issues meeting new/strange head on like this and sometimes it helps to diffuse the situation if you walk out in a bit of an arch with the two dogs parallel to each other, but arching away from each other. There could be some other signal that he picks up on that he just doesn't like too much. You say, if they are all relaxed he's fine, so maybe it would be wise to start watching the other dogs to see what they are doing. It could be the slightest of things too, slight stiffening, direct eye contact for too long etc. There is obviously a trigger in there somewhere... I know Daisy's is direct eye contact... she's usually fine if the other dogs don't even look at her....

Just my thoughts...

Good point. Brodie has a very strong eye and if a dog was staring back, it would be a problem. We did an arc today and today's friend is blind in one eye (blue merle too closely bred, probably). I wonder if he is possibly feeling a great deal of excitement when the dog is moving....what do I do??? do I herd it??? Do I run from it????? Is it going to get me in the butt like Robin did, if I turn my back?

 

He has a similar reaction to sheep, though he is getting better with those as well. We were at the sheep farm this afternoon and he did much better with the sheep and goats...he just gets to walk up and down the aisles of the barn and look in their pens as all of them are pretty pregnant right now and we're not ready yet to get him out in the field with the sheep.

 

The guinea hens all took to the trees when they saw Robin :rolleyes:. And both dogs came back to my gym whistle, so it was a pretty good day overall.

 

Liz

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What methods have you been using to help desensitize him to the close proximity of other dogs?

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Not a whole lot yet, as he hasn't been around other dogs since last summer's puppy class...he barked like crazy at the first other pup he saw because the little boy brought him straight over to Brodie to say Hi and the parents didn't stop it! I sat right down on him for it and explained to the little boy that puppies have to learn how to be friends. Brodie was okay, but there were only two other pups in it and I only let him watch puppy play, not participate because the other pup was an Aussie who was a bossy little gal and there would have been trouble...the best thing we took away from that class is he learned how to be a friend to a very shy little boy who didn't particularly like the German Shepherd pup his parents had paid a good deal of money for but loved Brodie's little Snoopy face....Brodie loved him, too.

 

I should have taken him to another class, but then I started teaching and didn't have that much energy....kick, kick, kick, it's always the parent's fault :rolleyes:. I think there's time to correct it, especially as several have noted that the straight on meeting seems to be a particular problem with Border Collies, which would make sense.

 

 

Today we worked at a distance...we walked up the street at about a half a block apart -- Brodie following, then went into the studio and Molly lay down while Brodie worked through his leads, sits, stays, all that good stuff, keeping his attention on me.

 

Molly's owner threw Brodie treats from where she was standing with Molly -- he liked that well enough. Once we got through the hour, he was lying calmly at my feet, watching Molly but not in a challenging way. We then went to the post office where a Golden lab was walking about twenty feet away (past him, not straight on), and Brodie didn't react at all, so I guess there's some hope.

 

Liz

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Have you tried playing LAT with dogs who are staring at Brodie? I would do that over and over and over and over and over and over and over - with very high value rewards at first. And, of course, at a distance that Brodie can handle. I think it would make a huge difference over time. I would actually play it uncued. Every time I saw him look at another dog (whether the dog is staring at him or not), I would click and deliver a treat. After doing that for a bit of time, I would focus more on staring dogs. You will always end up running into staring dogs. Most people don't have a clue that it's impolite to let their dogs stare constantly at other dogs in training classes and so forth. We have to teach our reactive dogs that we have their backs, we aren't going to let the other dog interfere, and that there is are alternate ways to respond. Think of it as teaching the dog to be proactive, not reactive. Proactive in a good way, that is! :rolleyes:

 

One thing to remember - you have Brodie's whole life to work with him. Helping a dog who is reactive is a lifelong process. If you put a lot of work into the first few years, it does get significantly easier, but there is always always always more and more room for improvement.

 

You haven't let Brodie down. He's not on a time schedule. You two have his whole lifetime to learn together.

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Have you tried playing LAT with dogs who are staring at Brodie? I would do that over and over and over and over and over and over and over - with very high value rewards at first. And, of course, at a distance that Brodie can handle. I think it would make a huge difference over time. I would actually play it uncued. Every time I saw him look at another dog (whether the dog is staring at him or not), I would click and deliver a treat. After doing that for a bit of time, I would focus more on staring dogs. You will always end up running into staring dogs. Most people don't have a clue that it's impolite to let their dogs stare constantly at other dogs in training classes and so forth. We have to teach our reactive dogs that we have their backs, we aren't going to let the other dog interfere, and that there is are alternate ways to respond. Think of it as teaching the dog to be proactive, not reactive. Proactive in a good way, that is! :rolleyes:

 

One thing to remember - you have Brodie's whole life to work with him. Helping a dog who is reactive is a lifelong process. If you put a lot of work into the first few years, it does get significantly easier, but there is always always always more and more room for improvement.

 

You haven't let Brodie down. He's not on a time schedule. You two have his whole lifetime to learn together.

 

 

Thanks for the reassurance. I feel like I have ignored Brodie because I only had so much energy this summer and Robin is "my" dog and Brodie is Ken's but he can't spend the rest of his life sitting on his lap in that recliner, baring his little vampire teeth if another animal walks by. I rearranged the whole downstairs the other day so Brodie can't run downstairs, hop in the recliner and be the troll under the bridge for any of the other dogs that passes by. Flipped him out a little, but he then he readily adjusted. He's found a spot he likes that's out of the way of general traffic but where he can see everything and he is NOT going to get in the habit of guarding it. I also invested in another jolly ball, which the dogs love dearly so we've got enough to go around and he doesn't feel left out....though they still all want the same one anyway!

 

I will begin to employ the LAT. I haven't yet used the clicker a great deal with Brodie because he catches on pretty quickly to language and works for praise not treats (unlike Robin who prefers silence and lots of food) but Brodie knows what it means and when I'm using it with Robin and the other two are on tie outs, he'll nuzzle my hand with the clicker and act like he's saying "I want one of those." :D He's got such an expressive face. We'll go with REAL BACON for the first few trials...he loves bacon!

 

Thanks again....

 

PS, I can work at my computer now without Robin smacking my hand into my nose.....

 

Liz

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Hi Liz, :rolleyes:

Dont worry about the CGC. You can always try for it when Brodie becomes acceptable to other dogs approaching him. He's young , and has just been neutered , give him some slack, LOL...

He's still thinking he's all that , it takes a little time for that stud feelng to go away ...

 

I would put the CGC test to rest for a while and work on other things with him.

I know it was something to accomplish with Brodie , but he has been thru a surgery that has , well , changed him somewhat , ( for the better ) and he needs time to adjust .

He may not ever accept other dogs coming towards him either , but I would give him the benefit of the doubt first .

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Hi Liz, :rolleyes:

Dont worry about the CGC. You can always try for it when Brodie becomes acceptable to other dogs approaching him. He's young , and has just been neutered , give him some slack, LOL...

He's still thinking he's all that , it takes a little time for that stud feelng to go away ...

 

I would put the CGC test to rest for a while and work on other things with him.

I know it was something to accomplish with Brodie , but he has been thru a surgery that has , well , changed him somewhat , ( for the better ) and he needs time to adjust .

He may not ever accept other dogs coming towards him either , but I would give him the benefit of the doubt first .

 

 

Thanks for the encouragement....we did go to the local SPCA yesterday at the suggestion of the behaviorist there. We sat in the lobby in an out of the way chair, watching the comings and goings, and the puppies playing (well, mostly sleeping) in the big pen. There were a number of Beagles this week (lucky us!) and he was very good, didn't bark, oe bare his teeth AT ANYTHING,, and though he was fearful at first, after about twenty minutes, he lay down and just watched. He'll get there. He was so sweet with the puppies. He could also see a German Shephard some distance away behind the glass doors.

 

 

You're right about the testestrone....we were over at the sheep farm the other day and Daisy is just coming into heat...Robin was way too interested, even though its been two weeks since the surgery. She went into the house while we practiced not chasing chickens!

 

Liz

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Have you tried teaching a "watch me" command??? It's VERY helpful. I have an extremely dog agressive/reactive dog and when she is on her "watch me" command, her eyes don't go off of me. Taught properly this can be a useful managment tool :rolleyes:

 

Agreed! I have taught all my dogs this command and it's been helpful in sooooooooooooo many situations!

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Thats great , Liz ! Brodie seems to accept dogs that dont intimidate him or are bigger than him , which is fine ,you can work with that...

Now just socialize him with as many as you possibly can ,like you are doing , and treat , treat , treat.....I wouldnt push him too much at first because he can regress rather fast if you do. Go real slow with him so as not to overwhelm him..than work on him being around bigger dogs , but from a distance....let him decide where he is comfortable , than go from there. The more patient you are with Brodie , the more rewarding it will be for the both of you..

 

Best of luck :rolleyes:

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