puppy playmate wanted

[cherylo]

hi all,

 

i have a new bc puppy (10 weeks old this saturday) and was wondering if there's anyone else in the general boston, ma area with a similar aged pup -- i'd love to get my little girl out to play!

 

thanks,

 

cheryl

[IPSY]

Hi Cheryl,

 

It's not a good idea to take your new puppy out of your home environment just yet.

She is not fully vaccinated ( I hope ) and because of that she is predisposed to all kinds of diseases , some that can be fatal. Your home environment is safe and so is the yard . That doesnt mean she cant/wont get sick , but if your yard is fenced and no dogs other than your own visit it , it should be relatively safe for her. But, if you do know for a fact that there are alot of raccoons in the area , I would be very careful of letting her romp in the yard till she is vaccinated for lepto.

In my opinion , lepto should be given on its own , and after all other vaccines are given , including rabies . Ask your vet about the lepto vaccine if your not familiar with it .

After her last booster and rabies shot will be the best time for you to start to socialize her with other pups.

 

I would take this time to bond with her and just enjoy puppyhood. It goes by so fast. And puppy breathe doesnt last forever

 

Just my two cents.

 

Good luck with your new family member !

[BustopherJones]

Merry Meet, Cheryl.

 

What IPSY said. Once you have completed the vaccination process, you should enroll your pup in a Puppy Kindergarten class and judge how it socilaizes with other dogs. Then you can decide what options to follow; I will others make their recommendations, as we may not all agree on the best course.

 

Incidentally, I know this was your first post, but you violated the cardinal rule of this board: YOU MUST POST PICTURES OF YOUR PUP!!!

[jvw]

I'm of a different camp. To me the benefit of early socialization WAY out weighed the risk of illness before fully vacinated. I've had three puppies. All of them went many places before fully vaccinated and I had no problems. Now, I did try to avoid situations where there were a large concentration of dogs in a small space....dog shows (but not sheepdog trials!), dog parks, commercial kennels.

 

When we went to the pet store I carried the pup.

 

But I most certainly tried to arrange puppy playdates with others whom I knew were also of the same mind! This was especially helpful for my last pup who really needed extra socialization.

 

Jennifer

[IPSY]

Cheryl,

 

You are definatley going to get heat from not posting a puppy pic. So I would get going on that if I were you, LOL..

[Lewie'sMom]

I would take this time to bond with her and just enjoy puppyhood. It goes by so fast. And puppy breathe doesnt last forever

 

 

Ditto!

 

And, welcome.

[Rave]

I'm of a different camp. To me the benefit of early socialization WAY out weighed the risk of illness before fully vacinated. I've had three puppies. All of them went many places before fully vaccinated and I had no problems. Now, I did try to avoid situations where there were a large concentration of dogs in a small space....dog shows (but not sheepdog trials!), dog parks, commercial kennels.

 

When we went to the pet store I carried the pup.

 

But I most certainly tried to arrange puppy playdates with others whom I knew were also of the same mind! This was especially helpful for my last pup who really needed extra socialization.

 

Jennifer

 

DITTO to all above. The days of keeping your puppy home for "safety" are long over. Careful planned meets with other dogs are the best. I've done this with all my baby pups and none got sick.

 

Cheryl, I'd suggest calling around to training facilities to find puppy playgroups that take pups the age of yours. I'd make sure they do some type of screening of those pups to limit the risk to your pup. The ones I used for my most recent baby checked to make sure pups were as up to date as they could be and didn't frequent dog parks or other places where they might pick up something and bring it back to the playgroup.

[Lenajo]

The advice of "keep them home" is now considered outdated. More dogs die from behavioral issues that result from lack of early socialization than disease.

 

I take my pups anywhere they are welcome from 8 weeks on. If I think the floor is iffy (like at PetSmart) they ride in the cart and socialize that way.

 

There is *always* risk - no doubt about it. No matter what you decide.

 

and FWIW I have no interest in my pup playing with other pups. I do want them playing with well mannered adult dogs who offer both play and education in doggie-rules.

[IPSY]

I agree with taking puppy anyplace as long as puppy is being held , not walking all over the pet stores. I dread to think of how many dieseases are in these places. How many people do you think brought their newly aquired dogwho is on a round of antinbiocs for eknnel cough or worse to Petco after being in the local pound where URI and other crap run rampant ? Im not saying all local pounds are not well run , but there are a few that arent. Puppies that arent vaccinated are so subseptable to these things . I dont think socialization with the outside world at that tender age is worth the risk.

But I do have alot of dogs at my home and puppies do learn alot from them at that age. I consider myself lucky for that , but even if that wasnt available to me , I "personally" wouldnt risk my pup getting sick .

 

Pups playing with other pups is great , but not knowing if the other pup is fighting a case of giardia or a URI , and putting your puppy down to "just say hello" is obsurd. Most people who arent dog people " like us on the board" have no idea what the heck kennel cough , or giardia is , or that URI are contagious and go from the pound or puppy mill to the vet to Petsmart in one full swoop , regardless what the vets try to explain to them. Ive seen plenty of them.

 

There is plenty of time to socialize pups with other dogs after the vaccines are done. ( in my opinion )

 

I agree that riding in the cart or in your arms is safer than walking the floors , sniffing where other dogs have peed or pooped , I have brought my pups in from time to time if I needed something because I wont leave the pup home alone at that age.

People exposure goes a long way during this time , yes , and the more people the better , but I vote against letting unvaccinated pups play with other pups or dogs .

Unless its your friends pup or dog and you know for a fact that they arent sick or just getting over anything , its not worth the risk and I dont feel the pup would be losing out on any needed learning.

 

No reputable puppy training facility will hold puppy play dates unless all participants are deemed healthy and vaccinated , at least here in NY.

 

Just my two cents .

[Carlasl]

I agree with taking puppy anyplace as long as puppy is being held , not walking all over the pet stores. I dread to think of how many dieseases are in these places. How many people do you think brought their newly aquired dogwho is on a round of antinbiocs for eknnel cough or worse to Petco after being in the local pound where URI and other crap run rampant ? Im not saying all local pounds are not well run , but there are a few that arent. Puppies that arent vaccinated are so subseptable to these things . I dont think socialization with the outside world at that tender age is worth the risk.

But I do have alot of dogs at my home and puppies do learn alot from them at that age. I consider myself lucky for that , but even if that wasnt available to me , I "personally" wouldnt risk my pup getting sick .

 

Pups playing with other pups is great , but not knowing if the other pup is fighting a case of giardia or a URI , and putting your puppy down to "just say hello" is obsurd. Most people who arent dog people " like us on the board" have no idea what the heck kennel cough , or giardia is , or that URI are contagious and go from the pound or puppy mill to the vet to Petsmart in one full swoop , regardless what the vets try to explain to them. Ive seen plenty of them.

 

There is plenty of time to socialize pups with other dogs after the vaccines are done. ( in my opinion )

 

I agree that riding in the cart or in your arms is safer than walking the floors , sniffing where other dogs have peed or pooped , I have brought my pups in from time to time if I needed something because I wont leave the pup home alone at that age.

People exposure goes a long way during this time , yes , and the more people the better , but I vote against letting unvaccinated pups play with other pups or dogs .

Unless its your friends pup or dog and you know for a fact that they arent sick or just getting over anything , its not worth the risk and I dont feel the pup would be losing out on any needed learning.

 

No reputable puppy training facility will hold puppy play dates unless all participants are deemed healthy and vaccinated , at least here in NY.

 

Just my two cents .

 

You might change your mind if you have a shy pup. I regret being too careful with Maya, (and she started going to doggie daycare small dog/puppy group at 12wks), She is shy from genes I assume, I did the best I could at socializing her (really I took her just about anywhere we could) but she still has a fear of some men and big dogs. Puppy socializing really helped her with her fear of other dogs. I shudder to think what she would be like if we hadn't of done that, I do have an adult dog at home, and she is fine with her, but it is meeting strange dogs. I am pretty confident if we hadn't gotten her out and about she would be fear reactive to other dogs. Right now she does pretty well she shows some apprehension but doesn't growl and bark at every strange dog she comes across like she did as a small pup. I did not walk Maya around our neighborhood much as a puppy because I was afraid of her getting something from unvaccinated dogs, but now she does not like to leave our property to go on walks. I am working on it of course, but I think if I had taken her on walks as a pup it would not be as big of a deal as it is now.

 

I wouldn't take a pup to a petstore and let it walk on the floor (basket is what we did) I wouldn't go to the dogpark, but I would arrange playdates with other puppies (bite inhibition is best learned by other puppies, as adult dogs will often let a pup chop on them too much) and puppy loving adult dogs, but I would be sure they were all healthy and I would probably want to have it at my house, and would be sure to clean up any doggy poo's left behind.

 

I have seen ads on Craigslist for people looking to set up puppy playdates. that might not be a bad way to go, you can screen everyone and even meet at a park.

 

Also don't forget how important meeting other dogs on leash is. Many dogs that are fine off leash are reactive on leash.

 

Have fun with your new pup!

[Lenajo]

I refuse to live in fear, or worse imo, with another unsocialized dog. Pups here get out an learn about the world as soon as they are 8 weeks, and we have countless people and safe adult dogs around them before that.

 

side note: They used to push parents to keep children as clean as possible. now they are finding out that dirt and natural germ exposure from other children and play outside actually make them stronger immunologically as adults.

 

Pups from healthy dams have maternal immunity for up to 12 weeks, often much longer. The greatest risk time for parvo (per W. Jean Dodds DVM at a conference) is age 18-20 weeks! If you isolated a BC puppy until that time was over you'd have a nut on your hands that you'd be fixing for life!

 

So I socialize like crazy during the prime maternal immunity time 8-12 weeks.

 

There a lots of way to promote a healthy dog that fights off disease easily or only gets mild versions if he should be the odd case that gets sick. Good diet, structured life (plenty of rest as well as playtime). You can also check a titer at 10 weeks to see if the pup responded to his 8 week vaccine. If he has, you can't get any better than that. Many people give no more shots than that anyway.

[Laurae]

Wendy, are you saying to give a first puppy parvo shot at around 8 weeks, then do a titer test at 10 weeks, and if the pup's titer comes back as sufficiently "protected" from the first shot, there's no need for further puppy parvo shots?

[Lenajo]

Wendy, are you saying to give a first puppy parvo shot at around 8 weeks, then do a titer test at 10 weeks, and if the pup's titer comes back as sufficiently "protected" from the first shot, there's no need for further puppy parvo shots?

 

According to Dodds DVM and Shultz DVM once you get a titer, you will not improve upon it. The dog has responded. So no more shots required. If you don't want to titer you repeat the shots once at 12 weeks. That typically produced seroconversion in most dogs.

 

Personally I don't give any shots until 12 weeks - per my vet, and the most limited schedule out there based on the research: 1 parvo, 1 distemper, seperately - and yes, they titer and that's it.

 

There are dogs that will never titer a response - there are processes to prove this out but I've never had one to bother with it. I'm told those dogs are just just given a series as per that vaccines instructions and hope for the best. They hope in the future to be able to check other facets of immunity - memory cells for example.

[scomona]

I wish I could have a play date with your pup- Toronto may be too far away

 

We live in a high rise and brought our little guy to parks, common dog areas...etc... He ended up being ok. We didn't know that a lot of people recommend against it... but in our case it was the only option with limited green space around our area. He also loved playing with pups his age...we found that once he paid with other dogs he stopped trying to "mouth" and chew on us.

[IPSY]

You might change your mind if you have a shy pup. I regret being too careful with Maya, (and she started going to doggie daycare small dog/puppy group at 12wks), She is shy from genes I assume, I did the best I could at socializing her (really I took her just about anywhere we could) but she still has a fear of some men and big dogs. Puppy socializing really helped her with her fear of other dogs. I shudder to think what she would be like if we hadn't of done that, I do have an adult dog at home, and she is fine with her, but it is meeting strange dogs. I am pretty confident if we hadn't gotten her out and about she would be fear reactive to other dogs. Right now she does pretty well she shows some apprehension but doesn't growl and bark at every strange dog she comes across like she did as a small pup. I did not walk Maya around our neighborhood much as a puppy because I was afraid of her getting something from unvaccinated dogs, but now she does not like to leave our property to go on walks. I am working on it of course, but I think if I had taken her on walks as a pup it would not be as big of a deal as it is now.

 

I wouldn't take a pup to a petstore and let it walk on the floor (basket is what we did) I wouldn't go to the dogpark, but I would arrange playdates with other puppies (bite inhibition is best learned by other puppies, as adult dogs will often let a pup chop on them too much) and puppy loving adult dogs, but I would be sure they were all healthy and I would probably want to have it at my house, and would be sure to clean up any doggy poo's left behind.

 

I have seen ads on Craigslist for people looking to set up puppy playdates. that might not be a bad way to go, you can screen everyone and even meet at a park.

 

Also don't forget how important meeting other dogs on leash is. Many dogs that are fine off leash are reactive on leash.

 

Have fun with your new pup!

 

I can understand your situation ,Carlasl. I too have (had) a shy , timid BC rescue . But she was rescued at 6 months and in pretty bad shape. Socialization did wonders for her , so I know where you are coming from. I believe its mostly genetics , but I do know she was mistreated too .

Scheduling puppy play dates with people who know their pups health, is a good thing all around, but in a safe

environment. I still feel a well balanced pup has learned bite inhabition from its littermates and mother. A pup will definately learn more manners and respect from being around other well mannered dogs and people I just feel if the pup isnt adaquately covered either by one vaccine or the lot , its a risk not worth taking. This might come from years in the vets office I guess , or by the horror stories that go with the job.

 

What we all do have in common though , is our love and well being for our dogs.

 

Food for thought:

 

I dont think anybody would let their kids ,either dogs or humans , play with someone who could be sick with the flu or menengitus. Nobody would let a toddler or newborn crawl or roll around a playground. But I will let them dig in the dirt I just take the same precautions with my pups. There are more and more contagious diseases out there now , I wont live in a bubble and neither will my dogs , BUT I will take every precaution to make sure we dont get sick. I make sure they are healthy and their immune system is strong , thats all I can do , the rest is life.

[SincereArtisan]

*sigh* I've seen parvo affect dogs from as early as 4 wks to as late as 9 months of age. What did almost all of the dogs over 15 weeks have in common??? Poor vaccine protocol. They either never received the necessary vaccines at all, or had an incomplete booster series.

 

Titers are great and all, but the results can be MISLEADING. Particularly in the case of a puppy.

 

Consider this....

 

"...we do not know the most crucial piece of information that is necessary for interpreting titers. We do not know the minimum titer measurement that correlates with protection from disease.

 

There is another factor that complicates the use of titers. Titers measure only half of the immune system. Although it is very useful to know the quantity of antibodies circulating in the bloodstream, antibodies cannot work alone. They depend upon a different portion of the immune system (called cell-mediated immunity) to get the job done. At this time, I am not aware of any way to test cell-mediated immunity.

 

Consider this analogy. Antibodies are like foot soldiers in the battle against disease. Cell-mediated immunity represents logistics and weaponry. If your dog has a high titer against rabies, that is the equivalent to having a huge army of soldiers ready to battle the disease. But it matters whether the soldiers are armed with high caliber weapons and advanced communications, or whether they are disorganized and can fight only by throwing dirt clods.

 

Without the ability to measure cell-mediated immunity, one cannot truly know whether a pet is protected against the disease in question."

 

 

I've never had anything go awry committing to a full puppy series of vaccines, (DA2PP @ 6, 9, 12 and 15 weeks, Rabies @ 15wks)

 

Personally, I value socialization at an early age as well. I avoid most other puppies unless they are well mannered. Manners tend to rub off, so keep this in mind when choosing playmates for your puppy. Instead, I host frequent visits with adult, fully vaccinated and healthy dogs who can tolerate and correct puppies admirably.

 

I also avoid dogs who frequent dog parks. I loathe dog parks, and the last thing I want is a dog carrying something home from one and infecting my puppy with it.

[IPSY]

Well said .

[Laurae]

According to Dodds DVM and Shultz DVM once you get a titer, you will not improve upon it. The dog has responded. So no more shots required. If you don't want to titer you repeat the shots once at 12 weeks. That typically produced seroconversion in most dogs.

 

Personally I don't give any shots until 12 weeks - per my vet, and the most limited schedule out there based on the research: 1 parvo, 1 distemper, seperately - and yes, they titer and that's it.

 

There are dogs that will never titer a response - there are processes to prove this out but I've never had one to bother with it. I'm told those dogs are just just given a series as per that vaccines instructions and hope for the best. They hope in the future to be able to check other facets of immunity - memory cells for example.

 

Thanks for the info, Wendy.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

My city has a facebook group where people can set up play dates etc. That may be a good place to start. As far as puppy socialization goes though, most training facilities don't offer classes to dogs who aren't vaccinated.

I was one of those people who did not properly socialize their puppy because I was afraid of what she could catch. I think most of her problems are genetic, but she is fearful and I wish I would have done a little more when she was a pup. However, I weighed the pros and cons of the situation. We have lots of raccoons here and we're very, very close to a couple of First Nations communities. The rescue I am with gets all of our dogs from these communities and I'd say that a good 25% of the dogs we get have either mange or parvo. With a disease like parvo prominent and so close to where I live, I honestly did not want to risk it. A lot of our off leash parks border the city/FN limits and there are a few packs of feral dogs that kind of roam between the two. Too risky. Anyway, I guess I would just look at your city and how many diseases are prominent in your area and weigh the pros and cons.

[Lenajo]

I take my information from the leading vaccine researchers in the country and a host of experienced vets who looks at the whole dog, not just push shots.

 

Vaccination before 8 weeks is contraidicated. Not only does it not work because the immune system is not generally mature enough to respond, but you interfere with maternal antibiodies as well as expose the pup to the vaccine risks without the benefits.

 

Before 8 weeks a pup should not even be exposed to a recently vaccinated dog because shed vaccine can put the pup at risk of auti-immune reaction just as if he was vaccinated.

 

One a dog has titered a response to a vaccine it has proven antibodies. You can *not* improve upon this. You can't make it make more with "boosters" and just expose the dog to risk from the shots without need for them.

 

There are dogs that will not make titerable antibodies, but can be still immune through cell mediated immunity (often referred too as memory cell immunity). That is not measurable at this time scientifically, and if you have one of those dogs you have to make decisions at that point.

 

If you have questions about Dodds and Schultz protocols, titers, or immunity in general email them. I'm done.

[jvw]

Sarah,

 

You did not cite your quote. I would be very interested to know where this info is from.

 

Years ago when I worked at the Vet Genetics Lab at UC Davis I had the opportunity to talk to the head of Infectious Diseases. I picked his brain about vaccination and titering. He was cautious about titering because he said they did not fully understand it. You could have a high titer and poor immunity or vice versa. This was several years ago. I've always wondered if current research has come further.

 

Thanks

Jennifer

[BustopherJones]

You did not cite your quote. I would be very interested to know where this info is from.

Titers Source