Arthritus Meds or Supplements Info

[nikita]

Hi,

 

Your site came up in a forum I belong to so i thought this was the best place to ask re Border Collies and Arthritus, my Nikita is Border Collie & part Blue Heeler, she will be 12 this year, she has been diabetic for 6+ yrs now.

 

Anyway, I can tell the arthritus is starting to kick in by how she sits down now, she is taking meloxicam 1.5 mg 2 x day for about a week now (prev just did 1.5 1x day) but I don't think this is going to work as she seems a little too tired past week not as energetic as usual, this may have worked for my Akita but I don't think this is the answer for her.

 

I have read about Salmon Oil, Acti-Flex K9, Flexi-Cose, Dog Gone Pain ones you can buy without a rx, her diet is Orijen, Nutro and vegetables and turkey. ( I already know about the Nutro dog food thing circulating the web so please don't comment on her food)

 

The meloxicam rx I just picked up I noticed the warning pamplet seemed more severe than when I gave this to my Akita, I know all these meds do help but you do get the side effects and pets can get stomach and intestinal problems either sooner or later.

 

She does get her legs rubbed. Steriods are not the answer as she is diabetic and I do not want to up her insulin dose. We are not near a swimming pool.

 

I have read uphill walks would be good, does this work?

 

Any feedback appreciated on what med's or supplements you use, she is used to needles but I don't think we are ready for that route yet, maybe down the road

 

Thank you ps I post a picture as she could be all border collie she does have dew claws but cannot figure out how to post picture in this post.

 

[bc4pack]

Take a look at Vaxamine K9

and you might want to join the Yahoogroup 'Orthodogs'

[Lewie'sMom]

Nikita, If your BC is suffering from geriatric arthritis, I've used this product with great success. Besides glucosomine for rebuilding cartilage it has a mild analgesic for pain. It's only available through your vet. I've never been able to find it at pet stores or mail order.

 

SynoviMSM

 

[Root Beer]

Well, here's a synopsis of what I've done for my arthritic guy. Hopefully something will prove helpful!

 

The first thing that I did was to put him on a grain free diet. I'm not commenting on your food choice, per se. Just saying that you might want to research the grain free option.

 

I put him on a joint supplement that contained glucosamine and MSM. The first one I tried was Synovi G3. It didn't help him. Next I put him on Dogzymes Bone and Joint and I did see improvement from that.

 

I put him on Dog Gone Pain two years ago and had great results. Up until very recently, DGP was the single thing that helped him the most.

 

I also learned how to do massage and some acupressure. That helpled.

 

I also found a chiropractor that uses laser therapy on hiim. That helps a lot. It's rather expensive, so I only take him when he really gets stiff, but it does help.

 

I keep him moving as much as I can. Getting a second Border Collie was a Godsend. At 5 years old, I thought he was done for. He wouldn't even get up to play ball half the time - he would just lay there and catch it! Once we got a young Border Collie, he couldn't stand to watch him play and he would get himself up and move. The more he moves, the better he feels.

 

I also do musical freestyle with him. Even if you don't want to dance with your dog, the Freestyle moves are phenomenal fitness exercises for an arthritic dog. He does spins in both directions, heeling on both sides, backing, moving sideways, standing on his hind legs (for him this seems to feel good), and circles around me or other objects. This has kept his muscles nice and toned and helped him retain his flexibility.

 

And now, as I've discussed in my recent thread "More Arthritis" I am doing Adequan injections with him. He has had three shots now - he will get his fourth tonight. I see distinct improvement and I am very happy with the results.

 

Oh, and his chiropractor also recommended giving him gelatin, so I've started doing that. Not sure if it helps, but he seems to love having it in his breakfast. (It's the unflavored Knox gelatin).

 

These days he gets:

 

Adequan shots

Dogzymes Phytoflex (However - I mean to switch him back to DGP and Dogzymes Bone and Joint very soon)

Salmon Oil/Vitamin E

Gelatin

Grain Free Diet

Regular moderate exercise

Occasional laser therapy

Occasional massage (I need to start doing the acupressure with him again, too)

 

He's feeling pretty darn good. Now, he is a little bit younger than Nikita. He's only 7 and he does have the vigor of a 7 year old.

 

But I figured that there might be something in there that might help you. I wish you the best with this.

[Maralynn]

Another supplement to check out is "joint strong" by animal naturals. I use it with my 10 y/o dog and she can still move and jump like a dog half her age with no stiffness or soreness at all. Before I started her on it she was starting to move like an old dog, especially at night or after exercise, but not anymore.

[SoloRiver]

Adequan, Adequan, Adequan. Solo went from having a pronounced limp to looking totally normal unless he runs. He has a very bad hip and probably also a bad back. Diet does not seem to affect his arthritis. Solo also gets fish oil, vitamin E, and a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement. He used to get Glyco-Flex III chews, now he is getting the Costco brand, both seem to work fine.

 

I don't want to scare you, because many, many dogs take Metacam and have no problems with it, but it almost killed Solo. I would advise monitoring your dog very closely. Solo had serious gastrointestinal bleeding and stopped eating and drinking on his own for about a week, and required subcutaneous fluids several times a day to recover. He was on Rimadyl for a while with no problems, but as a precaution he got a Pepcid AC with each Rimadyl (on the advice of the vet). You may want to ask your vet about giving Pepcid AC with the Metacam.

[bc4ever]

Adequan, Adequan, Adequan. Solo went from having a pronounced limp to looking totally normal unless he runs. He has a very bad hip and probably also a bad back. Diet does not seem to affect his arthritis. Solo also gets fish oil, vitamin E, and a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement. He used to get Glyco-Flex III chews, now he is getting the Costco brand, both seem to work fine.

 

I don't want to scare you, because many, many dogs take Metacam and have no problems with it, but it almost killed Solo. I would advise monitoring your dog very closely. Solo had serious gastrointestinal bleeding and stopped eating and drinking on his own for about a week, and required subcutaneous fluids several times a day to recover. He was on Rimadyl for a while with no problems, but as a precaution he got a Pepcid AC with each Rimadyl (on the advice of the vet). You may want to ask your vet about giving Pepcid AC with the Metacam.

Lots of good advice here. Glad I've been keeping up with this thread. Sounds like Solo has similar problems as Scooter. He's also getting fish oil and a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement. Vet recommended Pepcid AC if giving canine aspirin, but not with the Rimadyl. As I said in a different thread about Rimadyl, I really haven't seen any improvement after two weeks. Is Adequan expensive? What sort of side effects? He needs relief.

[nancy in AZ]

Adequan is very expensive. I recently had a conversation about the difference between Adequan and compounded injectible GAGs (glucosaminoglycans) (acetyl vs PS=(poly-suphated) with my veterinary compounding pharmacy. There's a significant cost savings if the animal will respond to the latter as efficiently. As I understand it, the molecular structures are bit different, the former being more complex and in some animals more efficiently synthesized. It might make sense to explore this option with your vet.

 

I've been injecting Otis, my old gelding for years with GAGs. In horses anyway, they are more likely to synthesize it more efficiently from the injectible form than the oral supplements, which makes it far more effective and economical, for us, anyway.

 

Maybe one of our science geeks would care to shed more light on the matter??

 

 

ETA It's far more expensive for horses because of dosage amounts-I didn't consider how that cost would compare to canine dosage.

[SoloRiver]

Adequan's not cheap, but in the grand scheme of things it's not so expensive. A 5cc bottle costs $50 and Solo gets 1.25cc per week, so that breaks down to $12.50 a week. Most people who have internet access, cable TV, and the other stuff most of the folks here seem to have can probably find $12.50 per week somewhere. The results are SO good that it's worth it to me -- in this case I feel you very much do get what you pay for. It's practically a miracle drug.

 

Some dogs can get by with fewer injections (like one every two weeks), and I hear tell that if you can get your vet to prescribe equine Adequan instead of canine Adequan it's much cheaper. I did not know that it was possible to get a substitute from a compounding pharmacy -- that sounds like a good option also if cost savings is a must.

[2 Devils]

If you have a vet that will sell you the horse adequan and have them tell you the correct dosage it will be cheaper.

[nikita]

Thank you all for your help, some of these I have never heard of, i know Meloxicam comes as Metacam liquid at $90.00 a bottle at the vet, when I had 3 dogs we used this up fast, so I searched and found the generic tabs, no the vet never mentioned giving Pepcid with it. (naturally ! ) years ago I had used the Rimadyl for one of my dogs and remember using Pepcid with that for another procedure we had done, thats why I had frowned with the vet on the Rimadyl. They gave us the Metacam liquid and that went up from 55.00 a bottle to 90.00 in a matter of a years time ! So I found out it was a human med also and got the rx for the tablets (so small to break too ! )

 

I know some of these drugs are hard on the stomach and intestines so thats why I have asked for info, the Meloxicam seemed to agree with my Akita and my Lab Cross, but I could see a difference with Nikita as her mood was not the same, I did not give her any last night or today.

 

ok, plain old gelatin will work no sugar in that, so I can check on the Adequan K9 and try for the equine version and ask for correct dose for my dog, Vaxamine K9, Synovimsm (vet), Dogzymes Bone and Joint, DGP, I have some Flaxseed Oil but I assume this is not as good as the Salmon Oil, Canine Asprin ( Vet Item ? I assume ) and to join the Yahoo Orthodogs

 

She eats Orijen with some Nutro Senior, I'd use all Orijen but the food and insulin have to match, with a border collie they sure don't fit the norm if there ever was a norm for a diabetic pet and you know the border collies are very special. Canidae dry did not help, upset stomach with that, Euk Sens Stomach too much carbs and junk, Evo no help with keeping good blood glucose readings. I have tried just about every dogfood there is to get her insulin and food to match up, so that why some of the Nutro Senior works

 

Oh where do you inject the Adequan?

 

I will check your other posts on this arthritus topic also and search these out for best prices and try to post a picture of her.

[bc friend]

I have my 16 yo on 50 mg. Rimadyl and 2 Cosequin DS on a daily basis, and add another 50 mg. Rimadyl (and Tramadol if necessary) on days that her arthritis is worse than usual (cold, rainy days or if she has tried to be overly active [spring fever!]). She also has moderate exercise and I try to massage her daily. She also loves to soak in a warm bath (hedonistic, isn't she?)! In addition to her arthritis, she has cancer so my vet and I monitor her pain management regimen on a regular basis.

[Root Beer]

Oh where do you inject the Adequan?

 

Speedy's vet has me injecting him in the muscles in his lumbar region. I alternate sides to avoid his muscles getting sore.

 

They showed me a super easy way to find the correct injection spot. Halfway in between the bottom of his rib cage and the top of his pelvic bone, I put my middle finger on his spine (pointing toward his tail) and then make a "V" with the two fingers on either side. The injection goes right smack in the middle of the "V" on whichever side I am putting it that day.

 

I always feel first to make sure I'm in good, thick, muscle, but so far I've had no issues finding the right place to inject.

[RMSBORDERCOLLIES]

Hi,

 

Your site came up in a forum I belong to so i thought this was the best place to ask re Border Collies and Arthritus, my Nikita is Border Collie & part Blue Heeler, she will be 12 this year, she has been diabetic for 6+ yrs now.

 

Anyway, I can tell the arthritus is starting to kick in by how she sits down now, she is taking meloxicam 1.5 mg 2 x day for about a week now (prev just did 1.5 1x day) but I don't think this is going to work as she seems a little too tired past week not as energetic as usual, this may have worked for my Akita but I don't think this is the answer for her.

 

I have read about Salmon Oil, Acti-Flex K9, Flexi-Cose, Dog Gone Pain ones you can buy without a rx, her diet is Orijen, Nutro and vegetables and turkey. ( I already know about the Nutro dog food thing circulating the web so please don't comment on her food)

 

The meloxicam rx I just picked up I noticed the warning pamplet seemed more severe than when I gave this to my Akita, I know all these meds do help but you do get the side effects and pets can get stomach and intestinal problems either sooner or later.

 

She does get her legs rubbed. Steriods are not the answer as she is diabetic and I do not want to up her insulin dose. We are not near a swimming pool.

 

I have read uphill walks would be good, does this work?

 

Any feedback appreciated on what med's or supplements you use, she is used to needles but I don't think we are ready for that route yet, maybe down the road

 

Thank you ps I post a picture as she could be all border collie she does have dew claws but cannot figure out how to post picture in this post.

 

 

You are giving her meloxicam which is a good drug but you are giving her the human form which is a pill. Metacam is a drench in liquid form with a proper dosage syringe which comes with it. There are very few, if any, side effects due to it being a drench. It is very hard to get the proper dosage with a pill as the pills are quite small and hard to cut and they are very hard on the dogs' stomach. I have used Metacam for 10 years now with arthritic dogs and it has always served my dogs well. I don't feel that hard exercize of any kind is useful for arthritis. Metacam must be prescribed by a vet in Canada. I'm pretty sure in the STates also. Bob

[SoloRiver]

Solo was getting the liquid meloxicam (Metacam) as prescribed by an orthopedic vet and suffered massive gastrointestinal bleeding just after the loading period was over. Like Rimadyl, Metacam is a medication that is safe in the vast majority of dogs it is prescribed to, but can have catastrophic effects in a very few dogs -- Solo happened to be one of those dogs. The fact that he was receiving a liquid drench did not protect him from one of the most devastating side effects of Metacam.

 

To the OP, if you are giving Metacam I would not also be giving aspirin, which I was told has more side effects than any of the more modern NSAIDs in dogs.