Sheyna Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Isn't there some mini-Aussie with an ILP kicking ass and taking names in the small classes in AKC agility? And hasn't there been a huge stink about it since the small dog handlers think it's unfair to run an Aussie in the lower height classes or something? Yeah, I think you're talking about Willow. She won the AKC invitational in 2007 or 2008 I believe. The issue was I believe if I have it straight, that the AKC does not register Aussies as mini's and she is/was registered elsewhere as a miniature Australian shepherd. And that she got to compete in like 12 or 16 inch I suppose. Lots of really really really nasty comments abounded on petitions, message boards etc after she won, beating all the much more "worthy" purebred dogs, she being a rescue and a mini and it wasn't fair, ILP cheating blah blah blah. Really nasty comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 If someone bred Papillons to truly be tiny Border Collies, I'd have another one. There were a lot of things I really, really liked about Skeeter and if he hadn't decided that Solo was his archenemy he'd still be here. He was cute, portable, personable, extremely charming in social situations and fun to run in agility once he figured out that it was worth his while to do. Also, he was a champion bedwarmer and very, very snuggly. But as it was, constantly having to keep a seven-pound Pap from committing suicide-by-Solo got old. Yeah, that's the mini-Aussie I was referring to. What do you think would happen if someone did start producing consistently small fast Border Collies and winning the 12" and 16" classes everywhere they went? Can you imagine? An AKC world team made up of nothing but Border Collies? It could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelin Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 If someone bred Papillons to truly be tiny Border Collies, I'd have another one. There were a lot of things I really, really liked about Skeeter and if he hadn't decided that Solo was his archenemy he'd still be here. He was cute, portable, personable, extremely charming in social situations and fun to run in agility once he figured out that it was worth his while to do. Also, he was a champion bedwarmer and very, very snuggly. But as it was, constantly having to keep a seven-pound Pap from committing suicide-by-Solo got old. Yeah, that's the mini-Aussie I was referring to. What do you think would happen if someone did start producing consistently small fast Border Collies and winning the 12" and 16" classes everywhere they went? Can you imagine? An AKC world team made up of nothing but Border Collies? It could happen. I'd be kind of sad if paps turned truly into mini border collies. While I love both breeds and there are similarities, paps have their own charms and quirks I adore. It's too bad about Skeeter but it sounds like it was for the best. Fortunately mine all like dogs enough, though Summer isn't too terribly fond of annoying ones. I just thought I'd add on another forum this exact same discussion is happening. One person said a mini aussie in their sports club had DNA testing done and came back as mostly papillon and sheltie with a little aussie in it. I don't know that I buy all those DNA tests, but that seemed intriguing. The dog was of course sold as a pure aussie to the owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted May 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 This seems to be the week for Mini Aussies. Tonight is street fair downtown and we take the dogs. We ran into several aussies including a miniature and a toy. They are very cute but there has to be a limit somewhere. Anyway I was thinking if you had a fast mini aussie he could be the perfect anchor on a fly ball team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheyna Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yeah, that's the mini-Aussie I was referring to. What do you think would happen if someone did start producing consistently small fast Border Collies and winning the 12" and 16" classes everywhere they went? Can you imagine? An AKC world team made up of nothing but Border Collies? It could happen. A lady who went to the AKC nationals this year said that its already happened with the 16 inch class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 But it probably would, because you'd be running against JRTs, Shelties, and Paps. I do think that pitting a Border Collie against those breeds -- a Border Collie with all the aptitude for agility that the larger dogs have in a small package -- would be a winning combination. And winning is what you have to do for a MACH, not just Q. In the "Border Collie classes" it is nearly impossible to win. Move up or down a class and things get much easier. I used to run Solo in 26" in USDAA and we didn't compete much, and Solo isn't all that fast, but if we didn't retire (due to Solo spooking at the judge) Solo would usually win. We were running against Labs and GSDs and it didn't take much. Likewise, I used to have a Papillon who a former World Team member (which is who I got him from) thought was going to be an agility superstar. Working with him was nothing like working with a Border Collie -- the effort it took to train him was monumental compared to training Solo. They just don't have the same kind of focus and drive. And don't get me started on JRTs... Isn't there some mini-Aussie with an ILP kicking ass and taking names in the small classes in AKC agility? And hasn't there been a huge stink about it since the small dog handlers think it's unfair to run an Aussie in the lower height classes or something? I don't pay attention to AKC regulations on what it takes to achieve awards, had no idea it had to do with placing scores, so with that being the case, than yes, I can see that you would be at an advantage to run a smaller bc or aussie. I run NADAC, placing doesn't matter as far as a NATCH goes. My dog Boots (a rescue) is border collie, most likely mixed with black lab, I think he is the perfect combo for a first time bc owner. But having the black lab, he doesn't have quite the intensity, drive, speed of a bc. However, we by no means have issues with making time on elite level courses and often end up placing in the top 5 of our class, which is the 20+ and seems to always be about 90 percent fast bc's or aussies; except in tunnelers. Anyway, we place and Q, because with that notch down in speed/drive we have a notch up in carefulness. Which now that I have Renoir who has the speed, but doesn't always care about jumping through a bar to get to the next obstacle first, I feel very blessed with Boots. Maybe this isn't the same case with AKC, although I don't know why it wouldn't be. I don't know - given the way some people treat their pocket pups I'd rather they not have access to human children. Have to say I agree, I'd rather see a spoiled Chi, than a spoiled teen behind the wheel of a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRipley Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I know at least three ABCA-registered border collies that measure easily under 16" at the withers. They were not purposely bred that way. I know it's not right, but man they are adorable! They look like full size BC's that got shrunk in the wash! I, for one, don't really think mini-Aussies are that cute. With most of them, their features are distorted and the appear out of proportion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman 101 Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I don't think these Border collies in the 16 inch class are necessarily being bred to be small. I've always seen Border collies on the smaller side. As someone mentioned, there is a huge variation in size. Also, someone mentioned that these smaller dogs were coming from confirmation lines. Look at pictures of the national winners; they don't look like confirmation dogs to me. I don't know of anyone who is really serious about agility who would be looking to buy from confirmation lines. Ask Marcus Topps where he got Juice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I do know of at least one breeder who specifically breeds to get small Border Collies who will jump 16. My friend came across her website when she was researching breeders for her new pup a while back. (No, she did not get a dog from this breeder). I'm not saying all of them are purpose bred that way, but some are. Even as small as my Alex is, he still jumps 20" (22" when we get to do USDAA)! I've seen smaller BCs at the local trials, but only one or two. I, for one, don't really think mini-Aussies are that cute. With most of them, their features are distorted and the appear out of proportion. Agreed. I only know of one who is super cute, and she truly just looks like a smaller Aussie. She's not teeny-tiny, so everything looks "normal" about her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agilityrunningdogs Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I've got a BC who will jump 16" AKC. He was actually an accidental breeding, they didn't even know the female was pregnant until a week before the puppies came. Even so, both of his parents are average height, but all three pups came out smaller than normal. So far, nothing is wrong with them health wise. They are just on the small side of the breed. I purposely chose the biggest in the litter because I wasn't really looking for a 16" Border, just a small one that would be alright with my schnauzers. As for Conformation dogs going into agility - very, very few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Cressa Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Cressa is also on the smaller side. She only jumps 16in in AKC. Both of her parents are 40-45 lbs and she is only 29lbs. I think her littermates are normal size tho. Cressa compete regually against another small border collie, who is a rescues. I guess what I am trying to say is most of the small border collie I know/compete against are ABCA reg. LOL We also compete against 2 mini aussie. Border collie beats them hands down. They're cute to a certain extent but they look weird. and small border collies are way cute-r :-p on the flip side: Troy came from 30lbs, 18ins parents and is 47.8lbs and 22ins. His littermates are avg size with only 1 being small... 16in at 7months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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