JBlaylock Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I think Flyball is an awesome sport/activity. It's amazing how fast, powerful, focused, and smart these dogs are. My dogs are well trained in obedience et cetra, but I wouldn't even know where to begin training them for Flyball. How do you start training them to run and jump over the hurdles instead of around? How do you train them to hit the platform, grab the ball, and run back through the hurdles to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderHill Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I haven't done flyball in many years (though I still have friends who compete) so I'm not up to date on current training methods. I do know that training has changed a lot, with the changes aimed at preserving the dogs' long term health and well being as much as possible. (Thinking of the "swimmer's turn" in particular.) Competition flyball is a complex team sport. Training for the competitive level can take years. (Depending on the dog and the handler, as ever.) Even just learning a solid down-and-back for home entertainment generally requires more than one human. For best specific training information, I'd go to a specialized source. There are other organizations out there but I believe the largest flyball group in the USA is still NAFA, the North American Flyball Association. Here's their website: http://www.flyball.org/ The site can direct you to more local sources for your area, where you can get detailed answers. As with formal obedience, there are lots of little steps involved for each separate piece of the finished product. Training for good form over a single jump is one. Training for good form over multiple jumps is another. Box training is an entire life study for enthusiasts. Proofing passes with other dogs. Proofing side by side runs with other dogs. Proofing an entire run during an actual tournament, where Everything Is New Again No Matter What You Thought Going In. Getting your dog to hold onto the ball all the way across the relay line. Getting your dog to DROP the ball after crossing the line... If you get the bug, you'll find yourself backchaining in your dreams. :-) The good news is, there's more than one right way to do it. (Though sometimes you have maintain the open mind yourself and keep shopping till you find the right folks for you and your unique dog to train with. H'mmm, sounds like most training projects!) More good news is that you can have fun with flyball at many different levels. Some teams are fanatics. Some teams are more relaxed. All the best people are having fun, regardless of which side of the 16-second mark their team is on. And yet more good news: even if you don't go all the way to competition, almost every sub-routine in flyball involves a skill which can be applied to other activities with your dog. When I left flyball to do agility (which turned out to be something both my dog and I liked even more) my dog already had a drive out over obstacles away from me that was awesome. He would bring me things even though he wasn't a natural retriever. He targeted like a laser sight. Sorry this isn't a more specific answer, but it's a very complicated activity. Good luck and enjoy yourself, if you decide to go for it! Liz S & assorted 4 legged critters I think Flyball is an awesome sport/activity. It's amazing how fast, powerful, focused, and smart these dogs are. My dogs are well trained in obedience et cetra, but I wouldn't even know where to begin training them for Flyball. How do you start training them to run and jump over the hurdles instead of around? How do you train them to hit the platform, grab the ball, and run back through the hurdles to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 How do you start training them to run and jump over the hurdles instead of around? I don't do Flyball, but of course we teach dogs to jump over jumps/hurdles in Agility. I always start off with a single jump and treats. I start with no bar on the jump and reward the dog for walking through the stantions. Once the dog is happily going through the stantions on a hand signal, I put the bar low and repeat the process. I might shape this, or I might lure it at first. From there I build a bit of distance - only a foot or two at first. And then add height. You can do this with any kind of hurdle or jump, or even with a dowel set on a couple of cans or stools at home. Once your dog is comfortable jumping some kind of hurdle, you can transfer that to the Flyball hurdles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 My two dogs have only been doing flyball for a couple months. Our first step was restrained recalls over jumps (first just one, and working your way up to all four) for a tennis ball reward. If the dog tends to go around the jump, you can put up baby gates or similar barriers on both sides. Once the dog was going over all 4 jumps we started working on the box, just getting them to go retreive the ball from the box. If the dog likes tennis balls and retreives, this should be pretty automatic. Some dogs don't like to touch the box. The swimmers turn off the box is taking a bit longer and involves strategic placement of obstacles to basically force them to turn right. After they will retreive the ball from the box then you have them go over one jump to retreive from the box and back over the jump to you. Add in jumps until you get to four. At least, that's what we've done. Both of my dogs will run the full course (and only took about 2 5-minute training sessions once a week for three weeks to get there), but their box turns and speed aren't there yet and neither of them has done passing or anything like that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I agree with Liz (Thunderhill). There is a lot involved in training for flyball and you will need a team to help you. In additon to the NAFA site she listed, check out the clubs on the U-FLI site as well: U-FLI I've been training for about a year and a half and my dog is now competing on the team. I couldn't have trained it on my own. All my preconceived notions about how to train for flyball went out the window once I actually started training. It was very different. I also couldn't have trained without all of the equipment (box, jumps, babygates and assorted props). Find a team that teaches a good box turn. If their dogs just hit the box straight on and don't kick off the box with their rear feet, keep looking. The old slam-the-box-with-front-feet-only is hard on the front end and can cause injury and arthritis. I hope you find a good team in your area. Flyball is a lot of fun for the dogs and handlers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBlaylock Posted April 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Wow, thanks for all the replies and tips. I figured it'd be really involving, most worthwhile activities are. I don't see my dogs ever competing in Flyball tournaments, but I thought it'd be fun to build a little platform and some hurdles and do it at home for a fun change. Obviously it'd have to be more than sporadic otherwise they'd not remember what we're doing or why they're doing it. Just thought it might be fun to look into, and was curious what all is involved in just the basic beginnings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 The one and only time I tried it, I had a very ball focused dog. They put baby fence up beside the jumps all the way down the line. I showed him where the ball was, he was off in a flash taking the jumps because that was the most direct way to get to the ball. Getting him to release the ball, was a total nother story. I think he tried to veer off once but to get to the ball he had to go back over. The only thing I didn't like about it was the frenzy that seemed to be happening all around us. But that could of just been where I was. the dog sure loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclare Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 We just started flyball this week and I had my doubts at first because of the frenzied environment which seemed to really stress my dog out. But once we started working she was clearly in love. So, with the caveat that I am definitely no expert, so far it seems similar to training a dog to do just about anything - you break it down into small parts and eventually add them all together. We started on the box, teaching Daisy to "hit it," meaning basically getting her front feet to touch the box. Once she had that down (in about 2 tries - smartypants), we moved on to turning. To do this, you create an obstacle with your body next to the box so that the dog has to get her back feet on to the box to get around you. In the weeks before this we'd been working the heck out of targeting to hand, so Daisy is pretty easy to lead around by the nose. You can also use your body to physically maneuver the dog a little bit so she can get used to the correct positioning. We haven't yet learned to pick up the ball in the middle of the turn. As far as the hurdles go, start off with one hurdle and a very short distance between you. If you have someone holding the dog on one side, you can lure her over the hurdle easily by standing on the opposite side with your hand stretched out over the hurdle. As the dog moves towards you simply move back so she has to move over the hurdle to get rewarded. Again, having a strong target to had really helps. We had a little trouble when we added a second jump - Daisy first tried to go around it. But I corrected her by targeting back around to the front of the jump and making her go over it properly. After a few tries she figured out that the fastest way to the reward was to just go over the jump. Anyway, I think the key is not to expect the dog to be racing through the course before the skills are taught. Obviously do everything in super slow motion until the dog has figured out each individual step and how to put them together. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 While I agree you should join a team, it's important to find a team that suits your requirements as well. Some are more recreational, others, very competitive. My ex GF is on the team that won last year's NAFA tourny in Arizona, and these people are super serious! Video taping turns, jumps, etc, for group analysis, lots of training, lots of travel to tourneys out of town. In my city, we have about 5 teams, some of them are just a group of people that get together for fun, with the occasional local tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 There are many ways to teach each aspect of flyball. First thing is figuring out which way your dog turns. You can do this a few ways but I usually just have the owners watch which way their dog turns when it comes back to them after throwing a ball. They are supposed to watch it 10 times and we go with what happened more often. If a dog is 50/50 I will do the below over/back exercise both directions and see which the dog seems more comfortable with. Even you are just wanting to use it as something do you can still take classes. I have repeat dogs come to class periodically that never plan to compete but they enjoy working with the dog and the dog enjoys it. You may decide you love it and want to compete. That has happened too. I teach the boxturn by teaching them to go over and back using a double wide jump. I then use a board I can place against a wall or the box and have the dog go over and back. I will change the angle of the board until it ends up flat against the box. I will usually add the ball once the dog has a nice turn forming. If needed I change the angle of the board to make sure the dog can get the ball and still do a turn. I try to make it an easy transition from the board to the box. Most dogs are on the full box within 3-4 weeks and are getting a ball off the ledge of the box. When possible I will use gating to teach dogs to do the jumps. I don't want them to learn anything bad by having the ability to miss jumps. Now I rarely end up using gating because she just don't have enough folks to set it all up, along with matting and everything else and still have time for class. You can make jumps out of cardboard if you don't want to buy pvc, wood etc... You can make a board out of wood and add matting to the front of it. You can put velcro on the matting to add a ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grenzehund Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 If you're feeling flush, you can order some good training videos here Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimatek9 Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 If you're feeling flush, you can order some good training videos here Susan I actually ordered those videos last week, but haven't received them yet. Hopefully I will learn something. All I can say is flyball is awesome and very addictive. I (my dogs) have competing for almost 1 1/2 years now. I have four dogs (2 American Pit Bull Terriers, 1 Miniature Pinscher, and 1 deaf Dogo Argentino) that are competing, and we have a few others in training. Like others have said, finding an experienced team is extremely helpful. We start with restrained recalls (one jump at a time), teaching a proper box turn on a board, and sending the dog to a target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Even if you're just planning to do it for fun, I would still recommend looking for a team that offers classes. You may find that you and your dog love it so much that you want to try competing. Make every attempt to train it right from the beginning because some things can't be effectively retrained, especially the box turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 All I can say is flyball is awesome and very addictive. I (my dogs) have competing for almost 1 1/2 years now. I have four dogs (2 American Pit Bull Terriers, 1 Miniature Pinscher, and 1 deaf Dogo Argentino) that are competing, and we have a few others in training. Uh, you forgot to say the CUTEST Dogo Argentino ever! Elu= I can't add much to what's already been said. I agree that finding an experienced team is the way to go. The box turn is the hardest part for some dogs, but also the most important. My lab mix took a year to do a proper turn and she still won't do it unless a board is up. My Border Collie learned it in a couple of practices and he has a great, consistent turn. Flyball is way fun! I don't even notice the frenzied environment and stuff now, or if I do, I guess it doesn't bother me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimatek9 Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 I don't even notice the frenzied environment and stuff now, or if I do, I guess it doesn't bother me. This coming from the Queen of Bad Passes! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 This coming from the Queen of Bad Passes! Yeah, but I only *wish* I could blame those on the environment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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