Another command question please.

[Elizabeth77]

HI, I hope you don't mind my asking these questions as they must be so basic to most of you. Please tell me if I become a bother!

OK. Today I spent some time teaching Meg to sit and stay.....she did well. Later I attempted to teach her to fetch. Then I got a guily feeling that maybe I should stick with teaching one command until she becomes good at that. Am I muddling her if I teach a couple of commands on the same day? I spent about 20 minutes each time. Thank you.

[Ninso]

You generally want to stick with one until it is solid before moving onto something else. Additionally, "fetch" can be a very hard command to teach--you may want to work on more of the basics, particularly "down (lay down)" and "come." A solid recall will be very helpful in teaching fetch. I would recommend reading some basic training books, I think "The Power of Positive Dog Training" is a pretty good one. Training makes a lot more sense when you have a basic understanding of at least one training method and how the dog learns.

[beachdogz]

Hi Elizabeth

 

Never feel that you are a bother to ask questions...not matter how basic. I think we all see this board as a learning opportunity.

 

Now, for my opinion (and it's just my opinion and you will find that on this board there will be many different, conflicting opinions):

 

Nope, you're fine teaching more than one command. We sometimes teach 3 different commands in a beginners class session. They might learn sit/stay, down, and come in one class lesson.

 

However, you should not teach a "building" command if the base command has not been taught. For instance, before you can teach sit/stay, you must teach "sit". Do not try to gain distance on stay to 3 feet until the dog is solid on stay at 1 foot.

 

You'll be amazed how much these little border collie brains can take in!! As a matter of fact, going too slow can be detrimental to a very bright dog, who can get bored very easily (just like kids)!

 

Once again, just my opinion!

[Bo Peep]

The fetch or "take it" command is one of the hardest, at least for my dogs and to have them to it properly, after 3 dog in obedience, I still need a little help. The sit and have them not move, is much easier. Just move a little further away with a good dog and continue your distance until you can finally walk away and maybe even around the corner. I'd go next to the lie down and work at a distance or maybe a drop at a distance. Comes in handy and saves a life. JMO. I like baby steps. They seem to stick better. Good luck with you dog.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I am going to second "The power of positive dog training" as an excellent resource! I've just read it, well most of it. I took in the info at the beginning and skimmed the training stuff. But it is a good book, especially for a beginner!

 

I would just mention, that if you are doing 20 minute training sessions, try to make sure they are broken up by a bit of play time, or shorten the sessions and add in more of them and try to always finish on a positive note. Daisy tends to get frustrated if she's not getting something, so I will make sure to end that particular session with something she knows well, then play tug with her or something "Fun" and return to the trouble behaviour the next day so she's had time to think about it. Usually it gets picked up in the second or third attempt!

[Root Beer]

This will depend a great deal on the dog.

 

Generally speaking, when I am working with a dog who is busy learning a lot of basics, I have one "focus" behavior that I really want the dog to master, but I also work with familiarization of other behaviors during the same session.

 

So, early on I might be focusing on "sit" and my goal is to build both familiarization and fluency. During that same training session, though, I might lure some downs, some left and right side heeling, and some twirls or something. In this case, I am not really expecting the dog to be paying much attention to any of the behaviors except the "sit", but I am making the dog physically familiar with the other behaviors so that when we do go to work on them, they aren't brand new.

 

Once the sit is fluent, I will choose another behavior to focus on. At that point my training sessions take on this basic structure:

 

1. Warm up/review of some previously learned behaviors (About a minute)

2. Focus on one behavior to build fluency (A minute or two)

3. Familiarization with other behaviors and/or some free shaping (three to five minutes depending on interest level of dog)

 

Once the dog is fluent on a good many basics and they are solidly on cue, I mix things up a lot more based on what we are working on.

 

One of Speedy's recent training sessions, for instance, looked like this:

 

1. Warm up - backing out away (known behavior which I am trying to solidify)

2. Leg weaves using a target (well known behavior that I am trying to modify a bit using the targets)

3. Spin Under with target stick (this is the "new" behavior that we are focusing on learning)

4. Laterals across the kitchen in both directions (known behavior which I am building duration into)

5. Weave poles with wires - fun, non-thinking activity that he gets a huge kick out of

 

I only work on one thing and one thing only if I have run into a training challenge and I really want the dog to be able to concentrate on one thing. I've done this lately with Dean's weaves. During a single session, I will work weave poles and weave poles only with him. Two minutes tops. I do other things with him, but at other times of the day in separate training sessions. Once his weave poles are rock solid, I will start to mix them into training sessions again.

[pammyd]

Kristine, I have been using your model for Bens training for a while now and it really works

 

With Mia I have been teaching the 'sit' to get it solid but I have been doing some downs, stands and spins, not just so she knows about them but also so she knows that all tricks dont just start with a 'sit'

a while back I tried to teach my friends dog a spin but he wouldnt do it because he had 'sit' too good and every trick he had been taught started with 'sit' so as soon as you had food in his hand he sat and didnt understand luring or anything

[Root Beer]

With Mia I have been teaching the 'sit' to get it solid but I have been doing some downs, stands and spins, not just so she knows about them but also so she knows that all tricks dont just start with a 'sit'

a while back I tried to teach my friends dog a spin but he wouldnt do it because he had 'sit' too good and every trick he had been taught started with 'sit' so as soon as you had food in his hand he sat and didnt understand luring or anything

 

That's an excellent point! I ran into that a lot with Speedy - both with sits and with right side work. We did so many sits when I first started training him that he thought everything should start with sit for a while! And I worked so much with him on the left in Rally that when we started right side work in Freestyle, he really struggled. He kept thinking I was playing a game and kept popping back over to the left! Even now in competition, his right side work is the first thing to fall apart if he gets over-excited.

 

With Dean I kept everything as balanced as I could - we heel on the left, we heel on the right; we twirl counter-clockwise, we twirl clockwise; we down from a sit, we down from a stand . . . So even when I was teaching the "twirl" cue for the counter clockwise spin, I consistently lured the clockwise spin (without a name at first) so he could get the feel for going the other way and didn't get it in his head that he would only ever go one way.

 

And he is pretty balanced when it comes to all of these things. He has defaults, of course, but they don't tend to become major hangups because it hasn't always been just one way for an extended amount of time.