CALLING ALL BEHAVIORISTS!

[beachdogz]

Now before you say, “I’m not a behaviorist, but…” I disagree. If you’ve lived with a Border Collie and had to deal with their behavior, then yes, you are a good enough behaviorist for me!

 

Background some of you may already know: Have had Kylie for 3 ½ months now; she was a courtesy listing from a rescue group. She is 1 ¾ yrs. old spayed female. She has adjusted beautifully. She is not hyper; has had obedience training before I got her, and is currently in a Beginners II obedience class. She is sensitive, needing only a voice correction as an effective correction.

 

We’ve overcome some other small weird behaviors before like the growling and running from a brush and running from anything that is new. And so now I’ve decided the time has come to tackle this one.

 

I first noticed this behavior the first week she was home. If you stamped your feet…like you were “taking a stance”…she ran at you growling. Now let me say, I don’t know whether she’s playing or what happens next...I never let it go that far. She was new and adjusting, so I put this one on the back burner for a while. About a month later, I deliberately started stamping my feet and when she came charging at me I gave her an "uh uh" – firmly but not harshly (you really don’t have to be harsh with her) – and then praising & loving her when she would come and rub up against me (I call it her apology behavior) Interestingly, now when I stamp my feet that way, she comes running and doesn’t growl but acts playful and loving. I have used it to get her to come to me when she is out running in the yard.

 

I saw the behavior again when my son was jumping rope in the garage. She spotted him and went barking/growling toward him. He stopped and just said her name in a surprised tone, and then she just turned it off.

 

I was recently on the bed doing leg lift exercises one night. She spotted my legs moving up and down and she came charging up on the bed growling. I yelled her name, she stopped and did the apology thing again. However, it took me a couple weeks to get her to come back up on the bed when I was laying in that same spot!

 

Canine freestyle is certainly not in our near future. If I jump around to dance, she charges and growls. A kid started jumping around in obedience class during “wild and crazy” time, and I saw her react the same way.

 

If I move my feet in a pattern (like tapping them) under my computer desk…same thing. I don't necessarily think she's being mean, or aggressive. However, it's not a behavior I can allow in case a kid starts jumping around (not my kids; they are grown.)

 

I have my theories on what may have caused this behavior before I had her, and I have a good idea as to how I’m going to approach this problem. But I would be interested in hearing other ideas on this behavior; what it might be and what you would do (if anything) about it.

 

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

[Blue_Sky]

Sounds like she is fearful of feet moving.

 

When you yell at her, punish her, etc, for being fear aggressive, you aren't fixing the problem, just masking it. The result will be that she will still be afraid of feet, but will be too afraid to show her fear because she knows she'll get punished. The goal is to change her opinion of what she is afraid of, so she isn't afraid anymore. The best way to do this is to have her associate it with something she loves (food, toys, etc).

 

I suggest that you work on desensitizing and counter conditioning her. Start by barely shuffling your feet, so that there is no response from Kylie. While you are doing this, give her treats. Stop the shuffling and treats at the same time for a few seconds so it is clear to her that moving feet equals treats. Then repeat this. Then increase the intensity of the movement little by little. The goal is that she is focused on the treat the whole time and never worries about the feet. If you increase the movement and notice that she starts to get tense, growls, or shows any anxiety at all, then go back a step. Once she is good with the movement when paired with food, try shuffling your feet a little and then following it with a treat. Then lengthen the time and intensity before she gets a treat. Eventually, she won't need treats at all. Soon enough, you'll be able to jump up and down, stamp your feet, etc, and she won't care (or will get happy).

[beachdogz]

Sounds like she is fearful of feet moving.

 

Thanks for the response. I am probably headed that way re modifying the behavior...but I'm just not really sure she is fearful. I'm not ruling it out. It's just that her body language really doesn't show me fear. It's a different response than when she was fearful of things like when the garden tractor cart was moved to a different location in the yard, and she was afraid of it. She's gotten much better about those things.

 

It's almost like the movement is a trigger and that the charging and growling is more of a rough play thing. But...I'm just not positive of that. She was raised in a family with two teenage boys, so roughhousing may have been in the picture.

 

I wondered if anyone else had a dog that did this.

[Root Beer]

Thanks for the response. I am probably headed that way re modifying the behavior...but I'm just not really sure she is fearful. I'm not ruling it out. It's just that her body language really doesn't show me fear. It's a different response than when she was fearful of things like when the garden tractor cart was moved to a different location in the yard, and she was afraid of it. She's gotten much better about those things.

 

It's almost like the movement is a trigger and that the charging and growling is more of a rough play thing. But...I'm just not positive of that. She was raised in a family with two teenage boys, so roughhousing may have been in the picture.

 

I wondered if anyone else had a dog that did this.

 

My guess, based on what you wrote, is that the movement is a trigger. I'm not so sure that the behavior it is triggering is play, but I would guess it is overstimulation. Like she gets a rush of over-excitement and doesn't know what to do with herself, so she does what makes sense on an instinctive level. Not that she's conscious of that, but that would be my first guess.

 

Me being me, I would use CU to help her learn a better response to that trigger. I'd want to teach her a word that means "someone is about to get crazy" or "someone is crazy" and have her response to that become "I settle down" when that happens.

[beachdogz]

My guess, based on what you wrote, is that the movement is a trigger.

 

Thanks, Kristine. I was just about to PM you and ask you to check this post and give input. Overstimulation sounds like a good guess, and an aspect I hadn't thought of.

 

Define "CU" please.

 

I'm thinking of starting this modification out with her on lead so we can have control of the situation.

 

A part of me wants to just let her go and see what she does to follow through with the behavior, but not knowing her background, I don't want to set her up for failure or set her up to start a new problem such as nipping or grabbing (if that's where it might lead.)

[Wendy V]

SO, you are going to provoke the misbehavior in order to correct or to reward it? How is one to be sure of the outcome of the training?

 

Bly Sky says:

When you yell at her, punish her, etc, for being fear aggressive, you aren't fixing the problem, just masking it. The result will be that she will still be afraid of feet, but will be too afraid to show her fear because she knows she'll get punished. The goal is to change her opinion of what she is afraid of, so she isn't afraid anymore. The best way to do this is to have her associate it with something she loves (food, toys, etc).

 

Well, if you correct the misbehavior and it stops, why isn't that a fix? Why does the dogs need to "love" the association with feet?

 

The Op writes:

I was recently on the bed doing leg lift exercises one night. She spotted my legs moving up and down and she came charging up on the bed growling. I yelled her name, she stopped and did the apology thing again. However, it took me a couple weeks to get her to come back up on the bed when I was laying in that same spot!

 

Why is it a requirement of this dog to lay on the bed with you? If the dog is being content and respectful on the floor, why force it into a position of discomfort?

 

It sounds like the rescue is a nice dog with a quirk that the OP has dealt with effectively with a voice correction. Why does it have to go deeper than that? The reason I respond to this discussion is that it seems to have elements similiar to the food aggressive border collie whose owner worked hard on a small problem until it became a disaster. Is this headed in the same direction?

 

Obviously, I am not a behaviorist but a practical trainer that owns multiple border collies in a home setting. When I read questions like this, I sense a gulf between my own experiences and those who practice a more theorectical basis of training.

[beachdogz]

Why is it a requirement of this dog to lay on the bed with you? If the dog is being content and respectful on the floor, why force it into a position of discomfort?

 

Let me clear this misconception (this is the problem with writing...sometimes it's not clear.) She was on the floor on the other side of the room. When I started lifting my legs, she came running and charging up on the bed, at which I gave a voice correction (hardly a correction since I just said "uh uh".)

 

However, then it morphed into a little "phobia" about coming near me on on the bed ONLY when I was lying in that position on that side of the bed (I find this to be intriguing because it is so specific.) I worked with her to get her to come up on the bed, so that this new "phobia" or "imprint" would go away. I certainly don't want her to be fearful of such a normal behavior on my part (laying on the bed.) I do that every night

 

I guess I might say this dog has a high or sensitive "fear imprint" in that once something happens, she developes a phobia to it. HOWEVER, I also find that she comes out of it relatively easily. It took me a week or so to get rid of this one, only because I didn't push it or work on it daily.

[Wendy V]

(I find this to be intriguing because it is so specific.)

 

Dogs are very specific. It's their nature.

[beachdogz]

Dogs are very specific. It's their nature.

 

Do you think it's dogs...or border collies. I honestly am starting to believe that their intelligence makes them more specific. Just a thought.

[Root Beer]

Define "CU" please.

 

CU = Control Unleashed, a book and behavior program written by Leslie McDevitt. It is based on a program of desensitization and counter conditioning, but it puts some very new twists into it.

 

For instance, let's say you were working with a second person to work on desensitizing her to that person moving his or her feet. Instead of rewarding her for looking at you while the person moved his or her feet (the "classic" way to work it), you would reward her for looking at the other person as long as she remained calm. This actually teaches the dog to look at the triggers and not be bothered by them. That's just one small piece of the whole thing, but it's a good example of how it's kind of different.

 

I've found it very effective with my own dogs. Dean, who used to be triggered by dogs running and cars going by as we drove down the road, can now watch dogs run and enjoy watching them (without fixating) and rides in the car and, if he pays attention to cars going by at all, watches them with calm interest.

 

I'm thinking of starting this modification out with her on lead so we can have control of the situation.

 

If she has a really solid sit-stay, you could put her in a sit-stay, lift one foot - reward. Lift two feet (slowly at this point), reward. After about a minute, release and move on to something else.

 

You could gradually build this up to jumping up and down, etc.

 

I would use the sit-stay instead of the leash because it will give her the ability to choose to remain calm as you move. The leash would be a good management tool for when you are out and about, until she gets through this, but I would use the sit-stay at home.

 

You could also have her lie down on a mat (that's a CU thing, too), but I wouldn't do that if it's going to turn into a battle of wills with the down.

 

A part of me wants to just let her go and see what she does to follow through with the behavior, but not knowing her background, I don't want to set her up for failure or set her up to start a new problem such as nipping or grabbing (if that's where it might lead.)

 

I would absolutely not do this. There is no good that can come of allowing the dog to go over threshold on purpose. It happens sometimes, and that's one thing, but when working to "raise" that threshold, you want to keep them under it as much as possible.

[beachdogz]

Kristine -

 

very interesting stuff. I want to look into CU.

 

If she has a really solid sit-stay, you could put her in a sit-stay, lift one foot - reward. Lift two feet (slowly at this point), reward. After about a minute, release and move on to something else.

You could gradually build this up to jumping up and down, etc.

 

Here is why I think your overstimulation theory may be right on the money. The leg lift is no longer a problem. The feet moving is no longer a problem. So those specific behaviors have been taken care of (hopefully. I know that there is always a degree of regression that might seep in.) But now it's the jumping. So rather than a specific imprint (feet) you may be right with the overstimulation behavior.

 

I would use the sit-stay instead of the leash because it will give her the ability to choose to remain calm as you move.

 

Yes, she does a pretty good sit/stay, so we will try that one.

 

No, I don't plan on letting the behavior go the whole way for the reasons I specified.

 

thanks.

[Root Beer]

SO, you are going to provoke the misbehavior in order to correct or to reward it? How is one to be sure of the outcome of the training?

 

Well, if you correct the misbehavior and it stops, why isn't that a fix? Why does the dogs need to "love" the association with feet?

 

When you do desensitization/counter conditioning, you don't provoke the undesired behavior. You always keep the dog at a level where he or she is comfortable, or under threshold in this case. If the dog starts to bark, growl, etc., the process is moving much too fast and won't work.

 

The dog doesn't need to "love" the association with feet, but the dog needs to be able to remain calm and deal with the fact that feet move.

 

It sounds like the rescue is a nice dog with a quirk that the OP has dealt with effectively with a voice correction. Why does it have to go deeper than that?

 

Based on what the OP wrote, "correcting" the behavior didn't make it stop. It stopped in one instance, shut the dog down and caused a new problem in another instance, and the dog is still triggered by the movement in other contexts.

 

Why shouldn't it go deeper? Why not help the dog learn to become nonchalant about moving feet and equip the dog to handle other situations that might trigger a similar response? It seems to me that would give the dog a better quality of life and make her a better pet for the OP.

 

Obviously, I am not a behaviorist but a practical trainer that owns multiple border collies in a home setting. When I read questions like this, I sense a gulf between my own experiences and those who practice a more theorectical basis of training.

 

I definitely sense the same gulf from the other side of the chasm - as a practical trainer that owns multiple Border Collies and two mutts! I'm curious, though, as to what you mean by "theoretical basis of training?"

[Root Beer]

Kristine -

 

very interesting stuff. I want to look into CU.

 

The best advice I can give you is to get the book. There is a DVD coming out, I think in December, but the book is available now.

 

Don't let the fact that she frames the book in the context of Agility throw you. This program is applicable to pet dogs in practical situations, and dogs in every sport I can think of.

 

Here is why I think your overstimulation theory may be right on the money. The leg lift is no longer a problem. The feet moving is no longer a problem. So those specific behaviors have been taken care of (hopefully. I know that there is always a degree of regression that might seep in.) But now it's the jumping. So rather than a specific imprint (feet) you may be right with the overstimulation behavior.

 

See, that's the cool thing about CU! It gives you and your dog tools to "de-fuse" the underlying issue so you don't end up having to deal with every single thing in life that will trigger your dog.

 

Yes, it takes some work and training, but it's worth it.

 

Yes, she does a pretty good sit/stay, so we will try that one.

 

If you have questions, let me know. I can PM, too, if you want much more detail.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I don't really have anything to add, I'm with Kristine for sure and the over stimulation is the most logical way to think, just from experiences with my dog.

 

If I stomp my feet on the floor I get one of two reactions depending on the situation. If she happens to have bf gross work socks, then she'll turn around and hightail it into the bedroom and wait for us to come get her. Or if she is being a brat and I stomp my feet, it usually sends her into a play bow, and then it's on!

[beachdogz]

Or if she is being a brat and I stomp my feet, it usually sends her into a play bow, and then it's on!

 

ahh...someone who has a similar scenario. So please elaborate on what you mean when you say, "then it's on!"

thanks

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Oh, it usually sends us into a 20 minute bout of playing chase and/or fetch at a high rate of speed! The neighbours (attached duplex) have actually commented on the fact that it sounds like a herd of elephants in here sometimes! Thank goodness they love dogs too and understand what happens sometimes!

[beachdogz]

Oh, it usually sends us into a 20 minute bout of playing chase and/or fetch at a high rate of speed!

 

See, that is my inkling...that this behavior is routed in rough playing/chasing/whatever with her former owners teenage boys. Not that it's bad....BUT...

 

BUT I don't know that. I don't know if the situation got out of hand and "maybe" she nipped. Not knowing is sooo very different than raising the dog from a puppy or having the dog for a couple years. At 3 1/2 months, I still consider us in the adjusting phase.

 

She is a wonderful dog and I believe she has a very solid, even temperament...and so I do think this is a learned behavior.

 

I just don't want it to become a problem in the future when I have her out and someone's kid starts jumping around or stomping his feet.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I would also believe that given the fact she lived with teenage boys, this is very likely. But as Kristine said, you don't want to raise her above her threshold "just incase". Since you don't know for sure, it's better to just get her out of the habit rather than her nipping a youngster! Or even scaring the daylights out of them!

[Wendy V]

I'm curious, though, as to what you mean by "theoretical basis of training?"

 

Any training theory that has a name, I suppose.

 

Why shouldn't it go deeper?

 

No reason not to, if you have the time and talent to make a difference. I do believe, however, that a poorly executed desensitization approach could actually reward the undesired behavior. For example, I acquired a rescue dog whose previous owners were having trouble with the dog growling at strangers coming into the house. Very concerned and being good folk trying to do the right thing, they contacted a behaviorist referred from the local humane society that created a desensitization program to address the problem. The family recruited friends to come over and offer treats to the dog when they came into the house. Several sessions with the behaviorist did not solve the problem. They had inadvertanly rewarded the dog for growling at strangers, and the behavior was rewarded several times over. In my hands, it took three days for the behavior to even appear, and when it did, one correction ended it for good. The rescue went on to become one of my most useful working dogs, placing often in open as well (Breezy, to those that know my dogs).

 

Sorry to blab on, and perhaps the CU method has refined desensitization methods from what I know of them, but is this time comsumming approach necessary for small problems and can the results backfire in unskilled hands?

 

IMO, the OP seems to have a good feel for their dog and what it takes to amend undesireable behavior, particularly in a correction-sensitive dog. In my hands, I would have ignored the sulkiness the dog displayed after the correction, feeling that the dog needed to learn about corrections and that they could live through them. However, the OPs approach worked well for them as well. Personally, I have no need for a dog to be on the bed and so would not have made any effort to make the dog feel comfortable there.

[sweet_ceana]

If you stamped your feet…like you were “taking a stance”…she ran at you growling

This sounds like what Poke did when he first came to us. It took A LOT of work to get him to stop. Poke does not like chaos, he likes things under control. The growling and charging for him was an attempt to make you stop. I am not sure if it was exactly the same as Poke, but when Poke would get upset he would nip. He did the same thing if someone raised their voice.

 

I first had to decensitise him to me and Chris, and then we did 16 weeks of obedience classes where the teacher would literally spontaneously start stamping her feet. When he would settle down he would get a treat. Poke learned to calm him self down quicker until when she would stamp her feet he would just lay down (his favorite type of stay) and be calm. Finally it is at a point where we have most of movement under control. The last two things we have to tackle are Bikes and Running. A strong "Leave it" command has been key and as soon as his attention shifts from whatever he is trying to control he gets treated. *** For Poke this was not just a foot thing, it was an issue with trying to control movement. If your dog doesn't do the same thing with other types of movement, ie.. bikers, runners, other dogs, what we did may not work.

[Root Beer]

Any training theory that has a name, I suppose.

 

Do you mean that you feel there is a gulf between you and those who are interested in learning about the behavior theories that explain how and why different training techniques work on a practical level?

 

No reason not to, if you have the time and talent to make a difference. I do believe, however, that a poorly executed desensitization approach could actually reward the undesired behavior. For example, I acquired a rescue dog whose previous owners were having trouble with the dog growling at strangers coming into the house. Very concerned and being good folk trying to do the right thing, they contacted a behaviorist referred from the local humane society that created a desensitization program to address the problem. The family recruited friends to come over and offer treats to the dog when they came into the house. Several sessions with the behaviorist did not solve the problem. They had inadvertanly rewarded the dog for growling at strangers, and the behavior was rewarded several times over. In my hands, it took three days for the behavior to even appear, and when it did, one correction ended it for good. The rescue went on to become one of my most useful working dogs, placing often in open as well (Breezy, to those that know my dogs).

 

For every instance where desensitization and counter conditioning seemed to prove ineffective, I could point to a specific instance where corrections failed to solve problems and ended up creating new ones. And for every instance where corrections took care of things, I could point to a specific instance where desensitization and counter conditioning effectively solved the problem.

 

Desensitization doesn't really take a lot of talent. I certainly didn't know what I was doing when I started and I made my fair share of mistakes. My dog and I went through the process together and it certainly worked. And yes, it does take time, but for me it ranks up there as one of those things it's well worth investing some time in.

 

Sorry to blab on, and perhaps the CU method has refined desensitization methods from what I know of them, but is this time comsumming approach necessary for small problems and can the results backfire in unskilled hands?

 

I think it is up to the handler, taking his or her own dog and the situation into account. If something truly is a "small problem", it probably won't require a lot of work to change the behavior, regardless of the approach used. And if a person is going to bungle the training, he or she is liable to do so regardless of the training method. I've seen dogs nagged and harassed in the name of using corrections much more than I've seen people doing desensitization in a way that would worry me.

 

Now my turn to blab!

 

There's a dog in Dean's Agility class whose handler gives a correction every time the dog looks away at someone else. Guess what the dog constantly does? The dog is constantly looking away.

 

I play Look at That with Dean as we wait our turn. Every now and then he gets a click and treat for looking at the other dogs, etc. Guess what he does? He relaxes at my feet and minds his business.

 

Talk about results backfiring in unskilled hands!

 

The fact that learning to desensitize makes it necessary for the handler to learn a new approach and new skills is not a reason to hold back from assisting those who wish to use desensitization with their dogs and help them learn how to do so effectively. All training requires some skill or other and can be "messed up" or done successfully.

 

IMO, the OP seems to have a good feel for their dog and what it takes to amend undesireable behavior . . .

 

The OP asked for other perspectives and ideas, so I offered that.

[Wendy V]

Do you mean that you feel there is a gulf between you and those who are interested in learning about the behavior theories that explain how and why different training techniques work on a practical level?

 

No, and I don't need you to put words in my mouth. I feel that there is a gulf between what I practice and what is practiced by more modern theorists. Perhaps it comes down to expectations. I expect my dogs to behave in a civilied fashion and all non-productive behavior is extinguished. I don't set aside time for training, aside from stockwork, and all household training is done on the fly.

 

Now, I've been thinking about my above example with Breezy and I would have to agree that an unskilled correction could just as easily reinforced to the dog that strangers are dangerous, thus compounding the misbehavior. Just as a poorly executed desensitization approach could inadvertantly reinforce it as well. Your example of the agility dog presents a different issue where I think corrections become ineffective. In my example, I was correcting the expression of a misbehavior, and in your's, the problem was the handler wanted to draw the dog's attention to himself, to the exclusion of the other distractions. In cases where a handler is attempting to draw the dog to them, as in a recall, for example, only kindness, or reward will prevail, not corrections.

 

In an attempt to make my point clearer and to also enlist some help, and therefore your perpective with a problem I've been having, indulge me in another discussion of another dog of mine. I acquired a young dog a year or so ago which had some bad experiences with the previous handler. The dog, after having refused to jump into the back of a pick-up to load into a crate, was whipped in anger by the previous owner. This, of course, made the situation worse. The dog now routinely rolls on its back the moment it assumes I want it to load up in my car, which is several times a week. Since I need to draw the dog to me, a correction will only reinforce the paralysis. Sometimes I just clip on a lead and the dog willingly loads into the car then, but this is a compromise at best and only avoids the problem. Sometimes I walk around behind her and nugde her gently with my feet (without a command or even a glance at her), and this tends to get her body moving and her mind follows along, and then she loads up. But the problem still persists though I've tried hard not to make it worse by overreacting. Perhaps this is a situation where desensitization would be appropriate? Can this problem be solved without the use of toys, clickers, or food training, all which I despise?

[Root Beer]

No, and I don't need you to put words in my mouth. I feel that there is a gulf between what I practice and what is practiced by more modern theorists. Perhaps it comes down to expectations. I expect my dogs to behave in a civilied fashion and all non-productive behavior is extinguished. I don't set aside time for training, aside from stockwork, and all household training is done on the fly.

 

Sorry about the presumption. I was simply trying to understand your perspective. I still don't really know the "theorists" are, though.

 

It might come down to expectations, but I think in a way that is different than what you might think. I also expect my dogs to behavior in a civilized fashion, but I convey what is civilized to them through a different form of communication. The end result is the same - dogs who know the house rules and follow them (not perfect all the time, but better than the adult humans in the house tend to - LOL!)

 

In an attempt to make my point clearer and to also enlist some help, and therefore your perpective with a problem I've been having, indulge me in another discussion of another dog of mine. I acquired a young dog a year or so ago which had some bad experiences with the previous handler. The dog, after having refused to jump into the back of a pick-up to load into a crate, was whipped in anger by the previous owner. This, of course, made the situation worse. The dog now routinely rolls on its back the moment it assumes I want it to load up in my car, which is several times a week. Since I need to draw the dog to me, a correction will only reinforce the paralysis. Sometimes I just clip on a lead and the dog willingly loads into the car then, but this is a compromise at best and only avoids the problem. Sometimes I walk around behind her and nugde her gently with my feet (without a command or even a glance at her), and this tends to get her body moving and her mind follows along, and then she loads up. But the problem still persists though I've tried hard not to make it worse by overreacting. Perhaps this is a situation where desensitization would be appropriate? Can this problem be solved without the use of toys, clickers, or food training, all which I despise?

 

I'm happy to give a perspective.

 

I would definitely use desensitization for a situation like this and I think you could do it without toys, clickers, or food.

 

Is there anything that she finds highly, highly rewarding? It can be anything - a chance to run free in the yard, play with another of your dogs, a chance to jump in the creek and swim, freedom to sniff, or to love on a certain person. Obviously, you want to choose something that is safe and appropriate (I would not, for instance, suggest chasing deer!!).

 

Once you identify something that she finds rewarding, you can call her and approach the car together. Once the car is in sight, but before she would roll, release her to her reward. I'd use a word here like "free" - it could be any word. After she enjoyed her reward for a full minute or so, call her and walk her toward the car again. Repeat. If she is comfortable and not rolling over, gradually move closer to the car. Quit after three to five repetitions.

 

I'd do this several times a week for a few weeks and see if there were any improvement. And, if at any time she were to refuse to go to her reward and shows that she wants to go with you to the car - by all means, let her in the car and then release her and end the exercise for the day. If, at any time, she rolls over, give more space between her and the car for the time being.

 

Because she doesn't want to get in the car, being given permission to get away from the car is highly reinforcing. It is so reinforcing that, in fact, you can use it to teach her that getting in the car is something that she is very willing to do. This exercise just might get her to that point.

 

This could be done in about 5 minutes per day a couple of times a week. Until she is going to the car unconcerned, I would leash her up when taking her out in the car.

 

I have another idea, but this is the simpler of the two.

[Wendy V]

Thanks for your ideas. They have spurred a few of my own as well. I'll let you know how it works out.

[Eileen Stein]

Hi Wendy,

 

Before putting in that kind of time, I'd try clipping on the lead to load her up, then drive her to something she really enjoys. For example, if there's a way you can drive her to where your sheep are, I'd do that, even if it means driving out the driveway and down the road for a little bit and then turning back. Don't take her there any other way for a while. I once had a dog who was scared of getting in the truck, and doing that changed her perspective about it real fast.