Incipient resource guarding issue

[Tranquilis]

OK, so Suka's been here a couple days, and is starting to show more of her personality, and it's almost entirely charming. But... She just tried to guard her squeaky toy from me. She took the correction, and allowed me to take it from her, several times over, but I'm reading her, and she's not in the least bit happy about it. In fact, when I got done making sure she knew she couldn't get away with guarding the toy, she promptly sat on it so I couldn't see it or take it. I'm not pushing that one at this very second, as I was already done, but it's clear to me that I'll need to address this.

 

She will chase the thrown toy, but she isn't happy to return it again. It's not a game for her; not yet anyway.

 

Anyway, by which handle do I want to grasp this issue, before it actually turns into a problem?

[Laurae]

Hi Tranq,

I've noticed that you seem to approach many training/behavior issues with some semblance of showing dominance over the dog. This has obviously been successful for you in the past, but resource guarding is one area where that approach often backfires and elicits aggression from the dog in response, which is obviously not what you want and totally unnecessary. Instead, you may want to practice some trading exercises with Suka. If she has a toy that she doesn't want to give up, find a better toy (and it's easy to add value to a toy--just play with it yourself and act like it's the most fun thing ever to play with on the planet, throwing it around, laughing, making it squeak, and so on) and then, when she shows interest in the new toy you're holding, offer to trade it with her for the thing she was guarding. Repeat this often, always trading up (in her eyes). I'd bet she starts to realize that she wants to join you in your enjoyment of whatever toy is being played with.

[Tranquilis]

Good call.

 

You've read me very accurately, and I see what you're saying. I'll give that a try.

My initial response was to get the toy, then toss it for her, to see if I couldn't turn giving up the toy into part of a game with her - Basically making giving the toy to me to be a prelude to something more fun that sitting on it.

 

I may also have goofed by starting that whilst she's tired from a lengthy walk - The heat zapped her pretty good, and now that I think on it, she likely hadn't recovered yet. I suspect, now, that she wasn't much in the mood for play at the moment.

[Maralynn]

I'd also try playing with some lower value toys, or even skip the toys all together while you are both getting used to each other. She doesn't really know you yet and is probably not 100% sure about trusting you. It makes sense when you think about it from her perspective - this is her 3rd place in the past several weeks and she's had a cross country flight thrown in as well. I'm sure she is still trying to figure ot her new life with her family.

 

One thing that I will do with each new adult dog that I bring into my house is give them a week or two to get the feel of things before moving onto the next step. I'll keep them crated or tethered to me and have minimal interaction with the family, but also be in a place to observe family interactions. I want the new dog to "get the feel" of the household without placing any pressure on them to interact. I want to establish a good routine and establish myself as a fair, consistent leader that they can trust.

 

Once that is done I'd add in training, toys, games, etc. When starting off with toys, I'd have two simular ones, plus treats, then you can always be trading and giving your dog something of value in return.

 

P.S. She has a beautiful face

[painted_ponies]

OK, so Suka's been here a couple days, and is starting to show more of her personality, and it's almost entirely charming. But... She just tried to guard her squeaky toy from me. She took the correction, and allowed me to take it from her, several times over, but I'm reading her, and she's not in the least bit happy about it. In fact, when I got done making sure she knew she couldn't get away with guarding the toy, she promptly sat on it so I couldn't see it or take it. I'm not pushing that one at this very second, as I was already done, but it's clear to me that I'll need to address this.

 

She will chase the thrown toy, but she isn't happy to return it again. It's not a game for her; not yet anyway.

 

My rule is "you have to do what I say, but you don't have to like it." Since Suka did as instructed, I personally wouldn't worry about it.

 

Naturally, this rule wouldn't work for everyone - I'm thinking of my obedience friends, who want their dog to look happy about following instructions. But it works for us. My Violet, for example, goes through a great show of growling and head-shaking before she will drop the kong for DH to throw. I have no idea why she does this, but then, I didn't meet her till she was two or three years old and one just never knows what species of fairies might be dancing in someone else's head, right? Anyway, she's never ever bitten DH or even acted as though she might and she's been here two years now. I wonder sometimes if all that fang-y display isn't her idea of humor.

[kelpiegirl]

I would probably keep toys from her, and trade up for a new one- when you want it back. This will take the tension away. I would also not keep toys laying around much, so that they always come from you, and go back to you when done. Keep it light, she's new, and must be unsure.

[Beth G]

I agree, and maybe treat her heavily with something delicious when she does so?

[Tranquilis]

One thing that I will do with each new adult dog that I bring into my house is give them a week or two to get the feel of things before moving onto the next step. I'll keep them crated or tethered to me and have minimal interaction with the family, but also be in a place to observe family interactions. I want the new dog to "get the feel" of the household without placing any pressure on them to interact. I want to establish a good routine and establish myself as a fair, consistent leader that they can trust.

 

Once that is done I'd add in training, toys, games, etc. When starting off with toys, I'd have two simular ones, plus treats, then you can always be trading and giving your dog something of value in return.

 

P.S. She has a beautiful face

OK, well, I've already pretty much wrecked that idea - She's already sucking up to my wife and daughter (even choosing to sleep at my daughters feet over mine, at times), and licking my son's face whenever he'll hold still. I haven't tried any real training, nor had I planed on it - I was just going to toss the elephant for her. Well, I *did* toss the elephant for her. I can see that it'd have been wiser to move more slowly, but she's dropped into the family with such ease that I was a bit startled by the different reaction. She'll snuggle right up to me and adopt a submissive posture in a heartbeat - Her head tucked under my chin, half rolled on her back with her belly showing.

 

I'll grab the squeekie donkey to match her little elephant this afternoon, and leave them out of sight for a couple days longer.

 

She's not showing ANY sign of being treat-focused so far.

 

On lead, she takes "Leave it" very well. She also follows "On by," "Do your thing" (potty command), and "come here" all very, very well. She takes an "ah-ah" very well, too - immediately dropping what what she was doing and moving back to what she was doing just previously. "Sit" is pretty reliable, and she'll even move to the spot where you point when you say 'sit' and sit in the indicated spot, but "off" (stop jumping up) is less reliable. OTOH, a gentle push with a finger will move her off very nicely. She's also already learned "wait for it," which is the command I've always used to get a dog to hold still long enough to be placed on or taken off lead. I haven't tried any formal training, and am immensely pleased with her so far, short of the curled lip over the toy. For myself, I'm not worried about it, but I do have an impulsive preschooler in the house, and I want to make sure things don't get out of hand. So far, Ian is paying attention to me, and not hassling the dog at all - Not that that's stopped her from washing his face a couple times. There have been zero guarding issues over water or food.

 

OK, anyway, I've got some ideas on which to work - Thank y'all.

 

Oh, and yeah, she *is* a lovely little lady, isn't she..?

[mbc1963]

I think I've read about getting dogs to trade for treats - to learn that giving you something meant good things would happen. Plus, the toy doesn't disappear, so it's all good.

 

I know when I started with my dog, he would play "keepaway" rather than "fetch." I worked hard on a solid "GIVE" command, so he knew when I wanted him to let go of something. He still occasionally will try to play keepaway with the soccer ball, but not in any kind of aggressive way -just because he loves the game.

 

Good luck!

 

Mary

[SincereArtisan]

Another trick that could help her read your intentions involves her food, which you say she is not resource-guarding. When you feed her, set the bowl down...let her take a few bites..then say her name, and a cue word--such as "Suka, give it."--then take up the bowl, praise her profusely, then give it right back. Then try doing this with a smudge of peanut butter or canned food in her bowl, which is something more desirable than kibble. Then move on to the toys.

 

 

Of course, this is if she absolutely have NO problems with you messing with her food or treats. This teaches her that though you're taking something away, its not for good, and she will get it right back, so no need to act snarky in the first place.

[Tranquilis]

Interesting.

 

I can give that a try, too. She's NOT at all food-driven. I'm not sure that I've found her drive at all, yet - She guards the squeakies, but then walks away from them and leaves them behind. Food, I can stick my hand right down into the bowl, and all she does is wait for me to move. Water is similar, though in this hot weather, she gets more anxious if I've lifted it up.

 

OTOH, I've not tried peanutbutter on her yet - She may well be absolutely nutz for it. We'll see.

 

Thanks folks - Good info here, and it's helping!

[Maralynn]

Another trick that could help her read your intentions involves her food, which you say she is not resource-guarding. When you feed her, set the bowl down...let her take a few bites..then say her name, and a cue word--such as "Suka, give it."--then take up the bowl, praise her profusely, then give it right back.

 

I'm thinking something like this could just confuse her and add a source of stress. She has no issues with food, why mess with it?

 

Keep it low stress while she completely figures out the family. The squeaky toys are a potential issue, so just keep those out of the way for now, or play a one on one trading game with them - and put the toys up when done. It sounds like with her personality that the toys probably won't be an issue once she fully settles in and learns the rules of the game.

 

Re: food motivation - have you tried something like liver treats, string cheese, nuked hot dogs or cooked chopped meat? My "not big on food" dog does like those for treats. You can also try uping the value by making a big deal out of the treats before giving them to her!

[Shetlander]

I'm thinking something like this could just confuse her and add a source of stress. She has no issues with food, why mess with it?

 

Keep it low stress while she completely figures out the family.

 

I agree on keeping it as low stress as possible right now. While I know the approach of taking food and returning it has its fans and I'm sure its successes, I don't tend to mess with my dogs' food once I've given it to them. I will often ask for certain behaviors before releasing the dog to food. If I had concerns about RG with food or when I bring a new member into my pack, I work to ensure that the dog sees a hand coming towards the food bowl as only good. For instance, start out with only part of the meal, then as the dog is eating, add food to the bowl once or twice. Or feeding the dog entirely out of my hand. With puppies I do a lot of training at meal time. If I'm motivated enough, I'll train my adult dogs at meals as well where they are working for their supper. Last, I do "Puppy Zen" where the dog is taught to wait until released for treats that might be right between their front paws or even on a paw. RDM has some great examples of this game on her website.

 

With this approach, when I have needed to tackle a dog, shove my hand into their mouth and grab something out, the only reaction I get from them is absolute amazement and canine looks of "How rude!" They might RG food from each other though there I do everything I can to manage meals so there is no need for that habit to show up. Any RG behavior when I am handing out treats results in an immediate correction and No Soup for You! So my dogs are absolutely at their least likely to snark over a stray piece of food if it's snack time.

[Angie H]

Hey threre

 

Isn't this fun?!

 

I am in complete agreement with Maralynn (and some others seem to be on the same page as well) -

 

TAKE IT SLOWER - she has been through more than most of my fosters when I bring them home and I always get the best responses when I give them time to recover from their journey and observe quietly without much interaction or requests from me.

 

The first week is simply learning to settle in their crate (NO FREE RUN OF THE HOUSE YET), feeding in their crate, walking for potty breaks and exercise ON LEASH. This teaches the dog that I am the key to all of their resources. They learn to trust me and to look to me for direction. (the second week they learn I am key to everything FUN!)

 

Also, when they are on a schedule, they seem to feel more secure, as they learn what to expect. They learn that their needs will all be met and when to expect them (food/potty/interaction). I also have found that they are more eager to work for you (teaching commands or learning a new game) when they are on this schedule as opposed to just free lancing through the house, doing as they please. It's too much freedom too soon and can be a little overwhelming and stressful to suddenly find him or herself in new surroundings with a brand new pack - they don't know their place yet and they don't know who the leader is yet much less TRUST you.

 

I realize that you have already skipped ahead to like week 3 on my schedule, but it might be beneficial to take a few steps back and give her a little less freedom until she becomes more secure of her place in your pack.

 

It was really good advice to lay low on the squeaky toys or anything that could be deemed high value (which could be anything since you don't know her past). Also if you want to give her something like a stuffed Kong or a raw bone - I would do that when she is in her crate so that she doesn't feel threatened that someone may take it, etc. for now.

 

As far as not being food or treat driven - that may change. This is only day 4? Many dogs have not relaxed enough at this point for you to see the real dog. I have had several dogs come through that are not interested in a cookie, etc. in the first few days - but boy do they catch on fast!

 

Again, I'm so very happy that you finally have your dog! It's hard to hold back when we're excited to add them to the family, but it may be best in the long run to keep the reins snug for a while.

 

Good Luck! Keep us posted

 

ETA: I do have a copy of "MINE!" if you'd like to borrow it. It has a protocol procedure for desensitizing and rehabilitating resource guarders. I will bring it with me on Saturday; just let me know if you want to borrow it.

[Tranquilis]

Thanks, Angie! Absolutely, I'd like to borrow the copy of "MINE!"

 

Alrighty, I've made a few rookie mistakes so far... Nothing disasterous, I think, thanks entirely to her good nature. She's actually made a point of denning up under my desk when not in the crate, and as been very good about it - It hasn't mattered who got near, not even the cats - She's been undefensive about her place there. But she's been sleeping in the crate at night, and any time something active was going on, or when there's no adult in the room, I've been re-crating her. So far, no problems there. I say "Crate" and in she goes. I'll slow down, and keep her settled in there some longer, then. It's HARD for me, of coure, but I'll do it.

 

The toys went up yesterday evening, and haven't been seen since.

 

Should I bring her with to the Farm this weekend, or leave her to settle a bit longer before bringing her down?

 

Edit:

Speaking of bones, any thoughts there? I've not even thought about starting those, wanting to get the rest of the issues settled first.

[Maralynn]

I'd skip the bones for now. Bones are very high value objects! Maybe a kong with peanut butter instead, in her crate, of course

 

It's HARD for me, of coure, but I'll do it.

 

Been there, done that! It is hard (I feel like a kid on Christmas morning when I get a dog), but definitely worth the patience .

[mum24dog]

I don't tend to mess with my dogs' food once I've given it to them. I will often ask for certain behaviors before releasing the dog to food.

 

I'm sure the reason I've never had a dog that guards food from me is because I've never taken their food away or stuck my hand in their bowl just because I can.

I know I can do it any time I need to though.

They've all been rescues and the typical pattern is that they will guard food from the other dogs for the first few days so I feed them seperately. They get over it pretty quickly and only defend food if another dog is being particularly pushy. Even then a growl will do the trick.

 

Pam

[Angie H]

Should I bring her with to the Farm this weekend, or leave her to settle a bit longer before bringing her down?

 

I would be inclined to think that she'd be better off at home since she is still getting used to her surroundings and she has already been bounced so much. She may be weary of going to yet another place so soon - I'd give her a chance to feel safe and know that she is with you to stay and she will not be dumped again - Though I'm not saying you should cater to her either - that can create a whole new set of problems, not to mention rescues are very vulnerable to separation anxiety and you don't want to feed that!

 

If you were just going for a short visit and she could stay with you the whole time, that may be different. But since you are planning to clean for us on Saturday, she will be crated in the kennel or in a shady spot while you work?

 

If it were me, I think I'd give her more time, but I'm just guessing....you will have to feel that out, as you will be able to gauge her comfort level better than I can - especially since I don't know her.

 

BTW: Can't wait to meet the little booger and it would be great for you to bring her for social time once you think she is feeling like HOME.

 

Clear as Mud? Maybe someone else has a clearer opinion on the subject!

[Tranquilis]

Clear as Mud?

Heh - Yeah, about.

 

I think I get you, though. Basically, I need to watch her, and try to gage her mood and comfort levels.

 

I think that, right now, if I were to crate her for a road trip, she's going to think she's about to be shipped agian. OTOH, based upon the way she jumped into the seat in the car, if she were uncrated, she'd probably be fine. But then I'd need to crate her at the Farm, while I worked. That's probably not a happy thought for her. I'm going to have to buy a seatbelt harness for her, though - I can already see that. The girl LOVES cars, and wants to be inside every one she sees - I wonder if her old master didn't use to take her with him on his runs. She'll pogo a good three feet in the air at the thought of getting into a car.

 

I'll see where she is, mentally, at the end of the week. I'd love to show her off, but not at the expense of messing up her little mind.

[SincereArtisan]

The only reason why I suggested starting with something she does NOT resource guard it to teach her the signal 'Give it.' Its good to start with something a dog doesn't deem valuable enough to guard, so you can teach your dog your intentions without risking injury to yourself. This way, when she hears 'Give it,' she knows that whats in front of her may be taken away, but no worries--it'll come right back! In fact, she gets praised for it!

 

I've done this with a couple new puppies/fosters/rescues who have resource guarding issues with toys, and its never been the source of any confusion. Instead, they caught on quickly to even stepping back for me to reach down and pick up an item. I'll switch it out with replacing their bone with a yummy treat to teach them that sometimes what I give back is even better. This also comes in handy on walks when they find some piece of something I'd rather them NOT eat....it can even be a good transition to teaching the 'leave it' command.

[Tranquilis]

This also comes in handy on walks when they find some piece of something I'd rather them NOT eat....it can even be a good transition to teaching the 'leave it' command.

That much, at least, I have no worries about. Her "On by" and "Leave it" are solid. The most I've had to do was the very lightest twitch on the lead. She's taken "Leave it" in mid-lunge after a running cat (Our neighborhood has a lot of outside cats), stopping cold, and shifting right back to the activity previous. The next running cat she saw, 24 hours later, she ignored.

[Tranquilis]

Well, as days go by, more and more of her personality is emerging - Angie, you were right, there's a lot more hidden in there! And so far, all good! Well, good, or at worst, neutral.

 

I've been keeping her in the crate more, or on-lead in the house. She's not quite a "velcro dog," but she does want to make sure she knows where I am. When I've got her in another room with my wife, I'll catch her sneaking peeks to check on me.

 

The squeaky toy RG issue seems to have decreased sharply - I started trading toys with her last night, and she was only interested so long as they were moving i.e. thrown. Once she'd caught one, she'd drop it, and wait for the next. I see I'm going to need to work on her "fetch" - After she caught the second toy, she dropped it, wandered over to my desk, and flopped down. When I went to retrieve the toys, she watched me brightly, and was happy to rejoin the game, but showed no interest in returning them to me on her own.

 

It appears that she gets worried more when there's a percieved scarcity. She was eating in her crate, and one of the cats came up to the door and sniffed at her - No problems, until Suka was almost done, then a sudden "Wuph!" at the cat as her bowl became nearly empty. At any other time, she's only looked at the cats standing next to her crate - no vocalizations at all.