Sarah_42 Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 I got a Border Collie puppy almost 2 weeks ago and today I went to take him for a walk, and he hid in the corner when I took out the leash. He's never done this before, and he has had no bad experiences with it at all. He likes going outside, and knows that the leash enables him to do this. He really does not like the Gentle Leader, but generally accepts it except for today. He has the Gentle Leader because of some fearful aggression he has going on, we have a consult tomorrow that will be addressing this issue. Any suggestions on how to allow him to see that leash and GL mean outside playtime? I have put treats all around both objects on the floor and he scooped those up, but when I moved a little bit closer to put more treats in, he backed away promptly. I am completely confused at this behaviour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 I got a Border Collie puppy almost 2 weeks ago and today I went to take him for a walk, and he hid in the corner when I took out the leash. He's never done this before, and he has had no bad experiences with it at all. He likes going outside, and knows that the leash enables him to do this. He really does not like the Gentle Leader, but generally accepts it except for today. He has the Gentle Leader because of some fearful aggression he has going on, we have a consult tomorrow that will be addressing this issue. Any suggestions on how to allow him to see that leash and GL mean outside playtime? I have put treats all around both objects on the floor and he scooped those up, but when I moved a little bit closer to put more treats in, he backed away promptly. I am completely confused at this behaviour! Put the leash and GL on him and let him wear them around the house, without taking him outside. Watch him carefully so he doesn't get tangled up somewhere, but this may help him get used to the apparatus. You didn't mention how old he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 I agree that letting him wear them around the house is a good idea. I also have a gentle leader head halter for my dog, but I have noticed a couple of things where they don't really help with her reacivity. 1) IMO other dogs can not properly see any of her "calming signals"/warnings of not to come near. 2) When she lunges it can still do damage to the neck. I usually only use this when we are going somewhere there will be no/very few other dogs. For the rest of the time I use a harness that clips at the front so that I can turn her to me easier and make her sit while her back is turned to the other dog bringing her level of agression/fear way down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 I have heard that the Gentle leader or "Promise" collar is not the best solution for breeds like bcs because they are so visual. By pulling their heads in another direction from where they are focussing their gaze I've heard that their anxiety level can really be raised, hence more, rather than less possibility for fear aggression. I don't know if this is an opinion shared by other behaviourists/trainers. I think I heard it from the Vancouver psychologist and author Stanley Coren. Have others heard this? Or is it all hooey... Ailsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedismom Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 I thought I had read a thread about this a while back and here it is. I especially like Rootbeer's answer. Good luck and congratulations on your puppy! http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.p...18&hl=leash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexie Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Most BCs hate head halters. Try a front lead harness instead. Your dog is telling you that something is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Most BCs hate head halters. Try a front lead harness instead. Your dog is telling you that something is wrong. Yes! The people at the puppy school thought Scooter was "aggressive", although the owner didn't think so, but one of the other instructors tried to put the head harness on him. He hated it. Couldn't even get it on him. I finally told her to stop, we left and never went back. Lost our class fees, but it was worth it. They eventually went out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4pack Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 BTW, how old is this pup? Have you looked at http://www.fearfuldogs.com and the Yahoo shy-k9s list? Trust me, you'll find a fair number of members with BCs and it is a wonderfully helpful and supportive group. (There is a link through the fearfuldogs site) Even trainer Pat Miller has moved away from Haltis and GLs saying that many dogs simply do not get along with them even with TONS of DS/CC. Some do great but many more do not. HTH, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I have heard that the Gentle leader or "Promise" collar is not the best solution for breeds like bcs because they are so visual. By pulling their heads in another direction from where they are focussing their gaze I've heard that their anxiety level can really be raised, hence more, rather than less possibility for fear aggression. I don't know if this is an opinion shared by other behaviourists/trainers. I think I heard it from the Vancouver psychologist and author Stanley Coren. Have others heard this? Or is it all hooey... Ailsa I think Stanley Coren is all hooey. Nevertheless, I agree with him about headcollars, which I loathe. I really hate seeing people with fear aggressive dogs on a GL with the poor dog's eye all mangled up in the webbing while they reef back on the leash trying to get their dog to stop aggressing. It's gross. I have never had a BC that would walk nicely on one. They have all resented them, and it used to make Briggs so angry he would throw himself on the ground to remove it, or he would redirect onto Tweed. As soon as I took that thing off him, he was much more manageable. And he stopped attacking Tweed on walks. I would never put one of these things on my dog. I think head halters are great for horses, and maybe camels. Not for dogs though. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I also have a gentle leader head halter for my dog, but I have noticed a couple of things where they don't really help with her reacivity. We have a very reactive BC and a head collar works very well with him around other dogs. Keeps him a lot calmer. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet_ceana Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 The GL worked with Ceana, but not very well with Poke. Neither dog wears them any more unless we are going into a brand new stressful situation. We used them for the rescue event in Flagstaff for just the first and last hour or so (they get snippy when tired). Ceana is calm wearing hers. She lets go of worries when it is on. She used to be very stressed on walks and after a number of them in a calm state of mind with the gentle leader she is just now calm on walks. Once she has adequate time to realize that we are in control and she doesn't need to be she is calm and no longer needs one. Poke hates leashes. They make him reactive. He hates being restrained. The first 2 obedience classes with him were nightmares until I asked if I could just try him off leash and then all of a sudden he became an angel. If I didn't live in an area with leash laws Poke would be in heaven. Until then we have learned to cope. The GL on him is more for my confidence and the people around me. ( The lunge looks much more intimidating to strangers w/out the GL) If he lunges I have better physical control. He doesn't do it as often as when he first came to us. (Progress and work is amazing) He has only worn the GL once in the last 3-4 months. The GL is a tool, but like any tool it doesn't always work for every situation. Both of my dogs will willingly put on their GLs, I have had people comment on how I just have to hold them up and they will place their face in. (Ceana slams her nose through with ridiculous enthusiasm) If your dog is afraid of the GL make it fun before you use it and the same with the leash. Only use the GL as a last** resort. A dog needs to be able to walk on a leash without one. A dog that can only walk on a GL is putting of the problem, not solving it. How old is your puppy? Will your puppy follow you without a leash? You could always not put the leash on until you are outside, let it hang loose, and play with it on. This makes wearing a leash = play time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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