Saying dog's name while working

[Pippin's person]

I find that I often use my dog's name as a means of getting his attention or indicating that I'm more serious than he seems to think (e.g. "Lie Down. Lie Down. Hamish. Lie Down").

 

I've heard that it's best not to use the dog's name like this (unless he's gone out of contact) but to only use his name when calling him in.

 

Is that the method y'all follow? Do you find that using the dog's name at other times makes it more confusing for them?

[Denise Wall]

I just posted in another thread about this. I use my dogs' names *all the time* when working them. Sometimes that's all I say to them.

[DTrain]

I have heard the same but I have never heard a reason. I have worked with trainers who say do not use the name and others who do not care. Generally I do what you do. For the most part I just give my commands but I have found that using the dogs name to get better focus also works. I save the name using for times when I am getting a slow reaction to a command or extra movement etc. It works well for me this way.

[PSmitty]

I've heard the same thing, that you should only use their name to call them in. However, both my trainer and I say Jack's name pretty frequently when working him. And although I would *never* recommend anything I personally do while working , my trainer knows what she's doing. To each his own, I guess.

[Shoofly]

Different people use the dog's name in different ways. I use the dog's name as a sort of verbal leash or long line and it's an important part of my system of training. If i say the dog's name, i expect it to "pull" towards me and i use it throughout my system, but *especially* when it comes time to put inside flanks on a dog. Other times are to pull the dog in on a flank, to get the dog to put more pressure on the sheep from the side on the fetch, to lean forward a bit on the shed, to tighten a flank at the pen, etc. It's an important part of my command toolbox. Places where someone else who uses the name differently would use the name, i'd probably use a command or correction phrase and use my tone of voice to snap the dog's attention up. Different strokes for different folks though.

 

I'll tell you what i do find to be like fingernails on a chalkboard though, is when someone just throws the name out there at the end of every command for no real reason. Lie down Bob, that'll do Bob, Bob come bye. I just want to ask if the dog doesn't know who the heck you're talking to.

[Pippin's person]

Different people use the dog's name in different ways. I use the dog's name as a sort of verbal leash or long line and it's an important part of my system of training. If i say the dog's name, i expect it to "pull" towards me and i use it throughout my system, but *especially* when it comes time to put inside flanks on a dog. Other times are to pull the dog in on a flank, to get the dog to put more pressure on the sheep from the side on the fetch, to lean forward a bit on the shed, to tighten a flank at the pen, etc. It's an important part of my command toolbox. Places where someone else who uses the name differently would use the name, i'd probably use a command or correction phrase and use my tone of voice to snap the dog's attention up. Different strokes for different folks though.

 

I'll tell you what i do find to be like fingernails on a chalkboard though, is when someone just throws the name out there at the end of every command for no real reason. Lie down Bob, that'll do Bob, Bob come bye. I just want to ask if the dog doesn't know who the heck you're talking to.

 

If I understand right--you are basically using the name when you need the dog to come in on the sheep somehow; except for the inside flanks, when it's to turn the dog toward you--is that roughly the system?

 

on the inside flanks, do you use both their name and "that'll do" or just their name?

[Smokjbc]

'll tell you what i do find to be like fingernails on a chalkboard though, is when someone just throws the name out there at the end of every command for no real reason. Lie down Bob, that'll do Bob, Bob come bye. I just want to ask if the dog doesn't know who the heck you're talking to.

>>>

 

That's what I think of too when trainers say don't use the name so much- it just becomes meaningless to the dog and they are not going to respond when you do need to pull them in. I do use my dog's names- to pull them in or as a "pay attention", depending on the tone. I might say it if that inside flank really has to be perfect - especially with Nellie as she likes to slice. I think I'm using it too much with puppy Jet- in an exasparated way- but it never helps . She's mostly good just grumbling at her when she likes to buzz by the lambs and see how high she can make them jump.

[Shoofly]

If I understand right--you are basically using the name when you need the dog to come in on the sheep somehow; except for the inside flanks, when it's to turn the dog toward you--is that roughly the system?

 

on the inside flanks, do you use both their name and "that'll do" or just their name?

 

Just picture a line between yourself and the dog, and pull it - that's how i use it. Soft voice = gentle tug. Hard, what the heck are you doing voice = hard tug. On the inside flanks, i just use the name to get the dog to pull towards me, then give the flank command. Over time, i drop the name and have a nicely shaped flank in response to the command.

 

Another example - on the fetch, say the sheep are leaning off to one side, and my dog is out there covering the sheep on that side, but not putting quite enough pressure on. If i give another flank command, it's going to take even more pressure off the sheep. If i call the dog's name, he should come more forward towards me and therefore onto the heads to straighten out the fetch line. I refer to it as "pull the rope" with people coming out for lessons sometimes.

[Marilyn T]

I am much less scientific abouit it than Robin F.

 

I use the name differently with each dog. I am working with a young dog now who will leave sheep and come back to me if I use her name. I avoid using the name unless she will not take a flank, then use it QUICKLY followed by a command. My older dogs respond to the name depending on the tone of voice.

 

'Queen' (harsh) means knock it off, think about what you are doing. 'Queen' softly means slow down a bit, and be carefull. 'Queen!' in panic voice says to her 'Hey lookie here, something is going on, and I need you NOW.' 'Queen' softly when shedding means move to balance slowly, and walk in but carefully. Softly, when penning, means step up v.e.r.r.r.y slowly.

 

I tend to adhere to the idea that the dogs, once they know their job, will understand the tone and what is needed at that point. It allows me to comunicate with the dogs, yet not give an incorrect command in the heat of the moment.... as I tend to do.

My fingernail on the chalkboard moments are when somebody tries to micromanage (say at the pen mouth) and is late so the dog is frustrated by following orders because they always put the dog in the wrong place. (Hence; I use the name and the dog decides what to do!)

[Laurae]

Another excellent thread, with great thoughts being expressed by everyone!

 

Marilyn, your post makes a lot of sense, but what about when you are training the dog? For instance, with the pen. Did you have to begin micromanaging and were able to back off once the dog understood the job, or did you let the dog figure it out more or less on his own with only limited help from you when he really needed it perhaps? I am a terrible micromanager at the pen, but I suck at penning wild sheep, so your way sounds mighty attractive...

[NRhodes]

I generally use a dog's name when I need to get their attention or to pull them in toward the stock but it varies dog to dog. I guess I hadn't really thought about it that much. Seems like a saw a video of Robin? working a dog and using it's name to get it moving freer? My memory may be incorrect. I have a little female I do this with when she starts slowing down or sticking.

[1sheepdoggal]

I had always used the dogs name first, while training, to get the dogs attention before giving a command, it was much later when I got into sheepdogs, that I learned how inflection of the name only can mean so many other things to the dog, rather than just a focus or attention getter.

I have worked with trainers, (my father being one of them) that refuses to use the dogs name ever while training, he says its wasted breath, and that the dog should be listening and waiting/expecting the command anyway. We have had many heated discussions about this, and he remains his hard headed German self about it, even when Ive tried to show him how it works. But we both have different training styles and train for a different type of response, but I still remain firm, that no matter what your training for, using the dogs name, keeps you in the picture, and keeps the dog thinking/listening.

[Marilyn T]

Laurae. I begin to teach penning by passing sheep through a gateway....then narrow up the gateway. I never really micromanage, but rather make it a job that the dog can learn to understand. When I do move to a pen, I use sheep that are easy to pen, maybe even with a bit of grain inside, so the dog learns the object is to put the sheep inside.... and soon the young dog gets the idea of what I want when I open a gate. Then I start just using the name... and correcting for incorrect moves. They pick it up very quickly.

M

[Pippin's person]

My fingernail on the chalkboard moments are when somebody tries to micromanage (say at the pen mouth) and is late so the dog is frustrated by following orders because they always put the dog in the wrong place. (Hence; I use the name and the dog decides what to do!)

 

Ha--no wonder you're usually not around when I approach the pen with poor Hamish.....I feel terrible for my dog because I KNOW that I'm not doing the right thing once they start to ring around the pen. I'm going to try your method next time I'm practicing and see if the boy can work it out better with much less me.

[Carson and Donna]

Having been a student of the "pull the rope" lesson ;-) I can attest to the fact how well it works! I stood amazed the first time I tried it and saw the results.

 

I remember someone talking about one of the best pen's they have witnessed. It was Tommy Wilson and his Roy ( I believe, someone correct me please if I am wrong ) They talked about Tommy just softly calling Roy's name, no flanks, nothing else, but his name and it was a beautiful site to see. I wish I had been there to witness that!

[stockdogranch]

I pretty much never use the dog's name, unless I have asked for something and have had no response. Then I will use "name, command." I was told to be careful about "mindlessly" using their name all the time when I was first taught to work dogs, and that the dog should know darn well who I am talking to. For me, that seems to be pretty much true. However, when I am first teaching two dogs to work together, I will say the name first, then the command for that dog. Once they are used to working together, I then just use their whistles (which are different for each dog), unless I am doing setout, and can't use a whistle. Then I use the name first then the command: "Tikkle walk up, Riddle go bye."

 

But, I don't really think there is a right or wrong--I think it's a personal preference, and each dog gets used to whatever it is that works for you. I know some people who use the name a lot, for lots of different things, spoken with different tones, and that works fine, too, as the dogs seem to learn what it is we mean by lots of different cues, words, or whistles.

 

A