sandra s. Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 There's a place here that has farm animals for tourists to look at - sheep, goats, poultry, ponies, and three BC-sized dark pigs. We often walk past it. Kessie ignores all the other critters unless I show interest in them, but she's absolutely awe-struck (and a little offended?) by those pigs. They don't give a **** about what she does, btw. Maybe that's why she'd like to get them moving . Anyway, it made me curious about whether BCs were ever used for herding pigs - I googled it and some web sites say they were and still are, but these are usually pages like this one. Somehow I have a hard time picturing it, since pigs seem to have quite a different mentality than sheep do. But I don't know pigs very well, since no-one around here has had any for most of my life. Any info? Thanks in advance . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vickim Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I don't know, but Whisper is supremely interested in pigs if she hears them on television, or the speak and say children's toy that the great-niece plays with. I don't know Whisper's historay, but I bet she's come across pigs at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I've seen some video of Kelpies working with pigs- moving them around in their pens. ETA: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 IIRC there used to even be trials in which pigs were used, so yes, border collies can and do work pigs. And yes, it is very different from working sheep.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 yup, Happys mom's parents were pig herders lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Ben has worked swine before. I could die happy without ever doing that again, though Ben handled it fine. I can't imagine what swine herding trials were like - but they were held regularly in the Southeast so that must have reflected a common skill set of the time (seventies and early eighties). Pastured swine is so uncommon now that there's no need. It's real shame that good records weren't kept of the results of those trials. Those had to be some tough dogs. But I've been through all the old mags I can get my hands on and can't find more than advertisements/annoucements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda-pop Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 It's real shame that good records weren't kept of the results of those trials. Those had to be some tough dogs. No kidding. Our pet pigs at work will take on a dog, no problem. Heck, they take US on if we try to boss them too much. I can't imagine trying to boss a 400 lb sow around and hope it turns out okay. Pigs are scarier than cows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra s. Posted February 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Wow, I never thought they'd budge as easily as they did for that ballsy little Kelpie (or maybe he isn't little but the pigs are big!). Of course there's different temperaments with pigs too, but I thought they'd be sticking up for themselves a little more than those did. Maybe he's taught them a few lessons already. I'd love to see how it works out in the open, in the swine herding trials...pity that it isn't done anymore. Thanks for answering, everyone! One head-scratch less for me, the next time we walk past the pigs...or creep past them goggling our eyes out, depending on point of view . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Ben figured out eyeballing them does no good - nor does heeling. Once he'd given them a few very hard bites high on the butt, where they could see him coming, he established his authority and they moved pretty well. But, our job was to move about half a dozen of them up a path to a new pen, maybe 40 yards away, and it took the better part of an hour. There was no "herding." It was moving them piecemeal, one or two at a time. These were adult gilts (that's right, right? castrated males?) so on the scale of "scary pork" they were down at the bottom, but they were stubborn as all get out, and it felt like moving the QEII - you'd get them going in one direction, but if you didn't correct the slightest movement off course, they'd just drift in spite of every effort - no force could stop them once you were actually looking at eyeballs. What we finally realized would work when we got to that point, was to "U-turn" them instead of trying to turn their heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Swine terms: gilt is a young female before producing young. barrow is a castrated male. Pigs can be herded, but they are not for the faint of heart. Adult pigs can bite - only experienced dogs should be started on adults that have never being worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I placed a dog about a year ago with a man that had a pig and cattle farm. She was a tiny little thing, hardly reached 22 lbs when I had her. The guy had never used a dog and was pretty uneducated in what he was looking for. I had a lie down and a walk up with flank commands on her, but she was not a very honest dog. She was going to be his cattle dog or pet, which ever worked out for both of them. I knew she was not going to be a trial pospect for me. So this placement seemed like a good one. Now I hear from people all the time who know this guy, they say Joe is the best little pig dog he's ever seen. She will even go in a trailer of new pigs and unload them with the guy sitting outside waiting for her. I don't know if she ever turned into a cattle dog but she is sure bragged about with her pig qualities. That and after a hard days work she gets to sleep in the guys bed. I can only hope that he rinses her off first! ;P I look forward to seeing her do her job oneday! Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthfieldNick Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 My friend who raises pastured pigs and sheep uses her little BC to move pigs every now & then. I help her a lot with the hogs, mostly because I get pork in trade, and not because I like pigs. We once had a group of weaner pigs get loose, and Joey-the-BC managed to get them all back where they were supposed to be. It was not easy, and it took forever, but a BC can outrun both pigs and people... Joey works both sheep and cows regularly, and he's a tough little dog. It's easier to move pigs with a board than a dog, I think, but it *is* possible to use a dog on hogs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra s. Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Sounds like they don't have much interest in flocking together, even out in the open where they don't naturally belong (being woodland critters). Those trials must have been quite a "show"! Pigs can be herded, but they are not for the faint of heart. Adult pigs can bite - only experienced dogs should be started on adults that have never being worked. In case there's a warning in here: No . The pigs are behind a high fence and I'm interested in this on a purely theoretical level. I like pigs, from what little I know of them, as they seem to be resourceful and opinionated buggers, and I'm curious about what dynamics would go on between them and a BC, because they seem so different from both sheep and cattle. I won't be herding ANYTHING with Kessie unless we find a trainer with the experience needed for such a soft dog. I find something to cringe about in almost every training section thread I read...cringe about what we did with Kessie, that is. It's just as well that dogs are such big forgivers. Still, I feel a bit like the one who got away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I've seen photos of Fern's mother and a tough male that belongs to her breeder working pastured hogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Shiro worked weiner pigs a couple of times. I was at training place many years and they brought a truckload of weiners in. About 20 dogs tried and I thik 2 were able to move them. The pigs stood up to the dogs, ran them off or hid. Shiro did the outrun and walkup, the pigs didn't move a foot. One weiner took a run at her as if to bite her....BAD MOVE on his part as Shiro gripped his snout, he squealed LOUDLY and all ran in several directions. Shiro gathered them with teeth bared and shouldered them and worked them well. Any sheep, cow, pig or goat that challenges Shiro will get the swift grip or roll by her....she refuses to bow down. Not the worlds best National quality dog but has no issues moving cow/calf pairs, bulls, goats on stumpe and so forth. I have a pix at home and will try to post it later Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 Now I'm curious about what the dog I placed does besides bringing new arrivals out of a trailer. I heard that they were joking about having to surgically remove her from a sow that decided to challange her and somehow injured her back leg . I was worried when I first heard that story, but I've only heard good things, if you count that story as good and I didn't mind it to much except the injury part because I grew up around mean ol' sows) and I'm glad I'm not still fighting the wee one on sheep. I'd love to see pictures Diane Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted February 20, 2008 Report Share Posted February 20, 2008 That's the thing - the dog can't mince around on swine. It took about half a dozen experimental bites to show Ben that he had to hit hard enough to get a reaction, and also that it had to be done where the pig could see what it was that got him. Sheep and cattle have much better peripheral vision and learn to avoid pressure much quicker. Ben doesn't lack courage or determination, but he is nervous about using his presence. Ben's afraid of making contact with stock, so this was actually very fun for him, in some weird way. I'm not exactly sure why, but I believe for him it was a bit like Frisbee or flyball - little refinement needed of his pressure. Just hammer away. That is probably not why other dogs do well on swine, but it was true for Ben. He gets very intense if he sees pigs anywhere, ever since then. I was a city girl, but the person who owned the pigs was a vet, so I trusted her judgment on working them. She knew where to "hit" them with Ben, for instance, and also that you couldn't reverse them, but only circle them around. I would definitely issue a "don't try this at home" warning though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra s. Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Thanks a lot, I can imagine it now...the pigs appear to behave as I expected, but the dogs (some of them) are a bit more persistant than I thought! I've seen BCs work pretty tough sheep at my one and only sheepdog trial so far, but at least their sheep stuck together most of the time instead of running off separately looking for hiding places. I have a pix at home and will try to post it later Pics would be great, of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 I've worked some a little, too. I have raised some for the freezer in the past, usually no more than 5-6 at a time. Occasionally they would get out of their enclosure, and I used the dogs to get them back in. A good hard bite moves them a bit, but they were not totally convinced, so repeated bites finally worked. Takes a tough dog! A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 I found it..... Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 I've found working pigs just with boards alot easier than it sounds like moving them with dogs would be. From descriptions it sounds like dogs are best used only in large open areas where boards are not practical and in spaces where a human can't reach. Am I correct in thinking that these are the primary times when dogs are used and work in confined spaces is accomplished with humans? I've only interacted with pigs in confinement housing, so i'm sure pastured animals are much different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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