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Dixie_Girl
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I was given two hens and a rooster. I had planned next spring to get chickens, ducks, geese, and pheasants. A few questions.

Can all of these fowls live together in the same building/pen?

Is there a feed they can all eat?

Do ducks and geese NEED a pond, or water of some sort?

Is it harmful for dogs to eat fowl poop?

I plan to let some of the eggs hatch naturally, ie via the hen setting on them. Will the rooster be a danger to the chicks?

 

 

 

I did learn two things. Chickens are not good for herding. And Skip likes "fast" food!

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I was given two hens and a rooster. I had planned next spring to get chickens, ducks, geese, and pheasants. A few questions.

Can all of these fowls live together in the same building/pen?

Is there a feed they can all eat?

Do ducks and geese NEED a pond, or water of some sort?

Is it harmful for dogs to eat fowl poop?

I plan to let some of the eggs hatch naturally, ie via the hen setting on them. Will the rooster be a danger to the chicks?

 

 

 

I did learn two things. Chickens are not good for herding. And Skip likes "fast" food!

Chickens,ducks,geese,turkey get alone fine together in the same coop,providing the coop accomedates their individual needs.

My experince with pheasants pretty much concluded at least for me that they need pens of their own.

Now there are breeds of quail that do fine in a mixed coop and can be good at picking up the residual feed from the larger birds,which helps keep mice from filling that void.

Depending on what type of Hens you got would matter as far as them setting a clutch of eggs,,IMO your best off to locate a couple of good little brood bantams,them little girls will try to hatch Emu eggs,lol I've had them do it.

A single rooster can cover quite a few hens,but its a good idea to always keep a subordinate rooster around in the event you lose the main dude.

If you have a lot of hens then the roosters will typically grab up as many as then can hold on to but fights between roosters can and do happen,lol

 

Ducks and geese enjoy and benefit from having a body of water but its not critical in order to keep them.

 

ETA; You may need a gamebird permit to raise Pheasants and quail

heres the little quail i mentioned,

The Button Quail -- Excalfactoria chinensis, is a delightful little bird commonly known as button quail or Chinese Painted Quail. Most often they are used as micro janitors in the bottoms of aviaries, where they do a good job of cleaning up seeds that other birds leave behind. These quail are also used widely by commercial butterfly breeders and in green houses, where they help keep insect and spiders.

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Linda,

*Of course* chickens are livestock!

 

Can all of these fowls live together in the same building/pen?

 

That depends on the individuals that you have. I keep all of my chickens together after the chicks are a certain age, but would not necessarily put larger chickens (I have bantams) or more aggressive chickens in with the ones I have now for fear that the bigger ones would pick on the smaller birds. I was looking to get some guinea keets and the gentleman had some adolescent birds I could also have gotten. But the adolescents are much larger than my chickens and we discussed the possibility that the bigger guinea adolescents might bully my smaller chickens. So you may have to do a trial-and-error thing and figure out what works together and what doesn't. If they will free range during the day and just be penned for protection at night, then you can probably fit a lot more different individuals together than you could if they are penned all the time. More space is better than less space, perch availability, feed availability all play a part in whether a group of different types of poultry can be housed together.

 

Is there a feed they can all eat?

 

Most domestic fowl could probably get by with just a 16% laying mash (or pellet). I don't bother to put chicks on starter/grower feed, but that's just me. ISTM that we fed our ducks the same thing we fed our chickens. Game birds like pheasants might have different nutritional needs and therefore need a specially formulated feed. That said, we have raised quail successfully on the layer mash, corn, and milo (and grasshoppers).

 

Do ducks and geese NEED a pond, or water of some sort?

 

You'll get differing opinions on this. Dabbling ducks actually filter mud/water through their beaks and strain out whatever they want to ingest. But if they are fed regular feed and not left to fend for themselves, then they don't *need* ponds/mudholes. Like anything else, though, they do need water, and generally they will manage to make a mess of whatever water you give them. I personally like for ducks to be able to *be* ducks and so would provide at least a wading pool of water for them. It will get messy, but you can dump it, add fresh water, and move it frequently to prevent them from making a muddy mess of one spot.

 

Is it harmful for dogs to eat fowl poop?

 

I don't think so, though I do try to discourage it. Too much of a good thing and all that... :rolleyes:

 

I plan to let some of the eggs hatch naturally, ie via the hen setting on them. Will the rooster be a danger to the chicks?

 

That depends on the nature of the individual rooster (or hen) and the nature of the breed you have (some are much more mellow/docile than others). I have had hens kill their own chicks whose color didn't match theirs (i.e., light hens killing dark chicks) or when fighting with another hen with chicks through a wire separating the two groups. I have had chicks killed by other birds in the flock. I don't think I've ever seen a rooster kill a chick, though, but they are pretty good at trying to kill each other. :D What I do is let the hen set where she chooses, but once the chicks start to hatch, I move them into a dog crate, where they will live the first week or so of their lives. After that, they are moved to little portable pens that can be shifted around the yard so they can always have a clean patch of grass (in theory, since we have no grass at the moment). At this stage they are still with the hen, and if I have more than one hen with chicks, they each have a separate pen, not too close to each other to prevent any "protective fighting." Once the chicks are about half grown (a size and feathering that the cats and dogs recognize as chickens and not to be eaten, though I do have to watch Moses as he likes to stalk chicks and pounce at them, scaring them half to death), I start leaving the door open to the little pen so they can start ranging with the other chickens. The hen will take them back to their little pen every night. When the hen finally deems them old enough to "abandon," she'll return to the rest of the flock and the chicks are on their own. They'll continue to return to their little pens at night (I have perches in them) and I just shut the door. Eventually I will take them and place them in the main chicken pen/house at night, and they then learn to roost there. This is what has worked for me. I have Old English Game bantams. They are known to be broody and good mothers, but they are also very protective (hence the fighting across the fence when two hens both have broods). Other chickens may behave a bit differently. I personally prefer to separate a hen with chicks because I can (my hens won't abandon a nest if I move it when chicks start to hatch) and I can protect the chicks better from the bigger chickens and other predators. I know others who just let the hens nest and hatch wherever they will and then allow them all to fend for themselves. It works well enough, but they probably suffer higher losses of chicks than I do.

 

And speaking of quail, we used one of my older bantams to hatch out a clutch of quail. She did an awesome job. Quail chicks are very sensitive to chilling and we didn't lose a single chick in the brood she hatched. But since they developed differently than regular chicks, she ended up staying with them much longer than she would have stayed with bantam chicks. I finally just removed her from the pen, and even then she would come running back to their calls for a couple of weeks before finally giving up on being let back in with them. The friend who gave us the quail eggs was quite surprised at our success with those chicks, as rather high losses when using an incubator seems to be the norm.

 

So IronHorse is right. If you want to successfully hatch out whatever chicks you might wish, using a broody bantam hen to do so is your best bet. (We once had a duck that hatched out a chick, whom we named Duck, of course. The poor mother never could figure out why her chick wasn't the least bit interested in mud puddles and the like!)

 

J.

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Thank you Julie and IronHorse! Lot's of good info there. I intend to keep layers and some for the pan. I will look into the breeds you mentioned. I am looking at the web site for McMurray's Hatchery to see if I can figure out what I have! I have them penned at the moment. They were free ranged in their former home, but I thought it best to keep them penned until they get settled. They are kept in a 3-horse stall lean to that has been chickenwire/other fenceing around the three sides. One side is up against the shed. There are places the hens can get out at the top. One did, but after mistakenly thinking Jackson could just "herd" her back through the gate, she has declined to leave the pen! We had to jury-rig the pen, quite hurridly. We will soon be putting wood up and enclosing one of the stalls and securing the rest better. The rooster seems very protective of his two lil ladies, and they seem to look to him for that protection. I like the idea of the chicks being isolated with the hen. No sense in letting them get killed off if I can make other arrangements.

 

Whew! All this for chickens! Sheep due next spring oughta be loads of fun!!

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A good brood bantam is worth her weight in gold :rolleyes:

I need to replenise my guineas between now and next spring.

Mr. bobcat ate very well this year and he was a very clever fellow, I lost a dozen adult guienas to him over the summer,, they insisted on continuing to venture out on that lunatic fringe where guinea fowl are destined to venture even though their tribe decreased at the rate of about 1 a week,lol

But it all works out,,,as of oct 7th Mr. bobcats hide has been curing and he is going to make a marvelous pouch for some rare stones I have been needing to find storage for.

Julie;

Have you ever kept any of the button quail?

Amazing how tidy they can keep the floor of the coop.

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We started with 12 and are down to 5....

 

 

Winter suggestions for keeping them warm?

 

They are free range...hence losing so many...next summer we are going to build a large enclosure for them but couldn't get the time this summer. The chickens are so cool that they walk back to there hen house at night and we close the gate, the walk in when the sun goes down and are ready to be let out when the sun comes up.

 

They do great with the horse manure, had to drag the fields way less this summer because of them helping to spread it out. Natural eggs are the best tasting things ever.

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Can all of these fowls live together in the same building/pen?

Generally, it's not recommended to mix turkeys and chickens because turkeys are susceptible to diseases passed by the chickens. Blackleg is one disease that comes immediately to mind.

 

Is there a feed they can all eat?

Avoid feeding the ducks medicated chicken feed. The dose of medication is too high and they will die. Chickens also need a higher level of protein than ducks and this will cause deformities of the wings in ducklings.

 

Do ducks and geese NEED a pond, or water of some sort? They need a good water source. They will foul the water of your other animals.

 

Is it harmful for dogs to eat fowl poop? Probably, but none of my dogs have died yet.

 

I plan to let some of the eggs hatch naturally, ie via the hen setting on them. Will the rooster be a danger to the chicks? Depends on the rooster and the hen. If you want the chicks to live, I'd probably keep them secured if nothing more than to protect them from predators.

 

Kim

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My chicken coop is kind of a layered affair

I have a pigeon roost in the top that allows them to come and go as they please with slide out galvinized pans for ease of cleaning.

The main coop is for laying boxes and feed and water stations plus roosting for the chickens, this is built off a 12x10 typical wood and single yard barn type building which i use for logistics,feeds,nesting boxes,bedding materials,,an assortment of mesh and wire,heat lamps,portable cages and all the other crap that accumulates keeping poultry.lol plus I keep a 300 gal water container with a heating element for winter.One end has a seperate smaller coop with access to interior roosts inside the barn for my most pampered brood hens. the other end has a leanto shelther for the Emu's to get out of the weather when they want,which is rarely,they tend to pick their own spots inside their enclosure to sleep,they have a 100'x100' sq enclosure with a couple good shade trees and an assortment of prarie grasses that I just let grow out,which gives them cover to about the top of their backs,,they seem to enjoy it.

I don't keep domestic turkeys,,,no reason to with a very healthy population of wild turkeys.

I don't keep waterfowl either but I do have nest stands for the wild canada geese set out in one of my old over the hill ponds which the waterfowl love,I've had at least 3 nesting pairs of canada's for the past 7 or 8 yrs,,a few pair of mallards always seem to raise a few clutchs in the cattails each year and 4 years ago i installed 4 woodduck nest boxes on the bigger pond,I had a pair use one of the boxes last year but didn't seen any this year.

I let all of the chickens free range during most days along with the guineas which share the same coop,they all come home abit before dusk,once in awhile a few bantams will take up roosting in an old barn on the south end, some years they manage to raise chicks there and prosper,other years a predator comes visiting and cleans them out.

Seems every few years i manage to aquire a few peafowl as well,with them I just let them do their own thing and roost in whatever trees they pick.All the neighbors enjoy them too so they have become kind of a neighborhood endeavor,always a pleasent surprize to have them visit and spend the day around the place,their range is pretty vast,I know that the 5 that are about as of last week have been spending most their time at a neighbors about 1 1/2 miles over the hill,,they like to roost in his big cedar trees in his front yard.

I just enjoy hearing their exotic calls of the evenings.

As far as the breeds of chickens that i keep go,well that varies from year to year,but I like to always maintain a colorful and diverse flock

For egg production I like the Australorp and good ol Rhode island reds

For all around I like the Plymouth rocks

Always have a sprinkling of Brahma's,Leghorns and oddballs

The occasional predatation that I have is just the price i pay to let them free range.

Some years its worse then others and I have to deal with the predator,fox,bobcat,coyote,skunk,raccoon,,,,weasel,lol I've dealt with them all on occasion.

The few pigeons and fowl that I lose to birds of prey are so small that I am fine with it, I feel it is my gift to them to know I have a healthy and balanced Bird of prey population.

I have had some intense encounters with determined coopers hawks before,,,lol but those are stories in themselfs.

heres a pretty good link if you want to look into poultry production in depth

poultry production systems

 

Chickens are easy to keep with some common sense and well worth the effort to enjoy the best eggs and yummy chicken that is the icing on the cake for keeping them.

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We started with 12 and are down to 5....

 

 

Winter suggestions for keeping them warm?

 

They are free range...hence losing so many...next summer we are going to build a large enclosure for them but couldn't get the time this summer. The chickens are so cool that they walk back to there hen house at night and we close the gate, the walk in when the sun goes down and are ready to be let out when the sun comes up.

 

They do great with the horse manure, had to drag the fields way less this summer because of them helping to spread it out. Natural eggs are the best tasting things ever.

I believe you have a harsher winter then i do around here

But as far as keeping mine warm during cold spells I just close them up in their coops

roll down or up the tarps according to how cold it might be,make sure they have good fresh water and some nice alfalfa to scratch around in and they do just fine.

During the winter I will add pellet feed to their rations,but generally during the rest of the year I just feed mine corn and veggies.

I also like to give them a good sized pumpkin about once a week and if I don't grow a patch myself I always wait till right after halloween and then buy up the cheap ones that guys just want to get rid of.

If you have a nice dry dark place to store them in you can keep pumpkins well into early the next year.

Windfall apples are a nice treat for em too.

My coop averages about 20 to 25 mature laying hens with an assortment of juvies and a handful or two of bantams.

The pigeon coop varies between 20 to 50,seems 50 is the magic number here for pigeons,at that number I will typically get a hawk or some other pretator take up residence for awhile,sometimes i think small groups or pairs just move onto one of the other farms.

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I had a motley crew of fowl before I moved from out west. They consisted of turkey, peafowl, 5 different varities of chickens, 3 different types of duck, 1 pigeon, guineas, ( I didnt care for them) and 2 types of geese, and a partridge in a pear tree. (sorry, couldnt resist) They all ate and roosted at night together. I only had one time that one of the peacocks killed one of my turkey hens, though even though I was in the hen house at the time, still dont know why that happened, as they were adults, and had been raised from chicks together. Just took one good peck to the head and she was a dead duck? I free ranged them during the day, and housed them at night, but fed scratch in the morning, yes Iron Horse, my neiborhood fox friend ate well too, offed 14 ducks in one summer. His tail now adorns my sons hat. For chickens I like the heavy breeds, and enjoyed the fresh brown eggs. They were good brooders too. I kept a baby pool for the ducks and geese and had a fine time watching them in that. The ducks though seemed to perfer the "water hole". A fair sized pool of water in a low spot Id fill up daily. My dogs not only thought their poop was some kind of gourmet meal, but also thought they smelled so good after rolling in "it". They bred plently, and the ducks Id say were the most prolific,( although the turkeys were Bronze's, so to large to breed naturally, and since were on the subject, does anyone know if ducks only breed in water? I never saw mine do it except when they were in shallow water. The drake would hold the girls head under the water while they mated. Just wondered if that was natural or if my ducks were just twisted in some way. But all in all, they were a happy lot, and I miss their pressence around the farm very much. As it is now, I can no longer have barn yard fowl, as my neibhors have asked me polietly to refrain from having any as they have 6 chicken houses on the farm next door, and are worried about desiese. We get along well, and I d like to keep it that way, so I dont keep them any longer. Enjoy them though. Once you get to know them, they are such individuals. I even had one rooster who had taken it upon himself to walk my son to the bus stop every morning, wait with him till the bus came, and then back to the yard to wait till I came out of the house to make my rounds with me. He wasnt friendly by any means, but felt he had a duty to perform. Fun and funny creatures they are. Also, I had a couple of my dogs think they were fast food as well, but it didnt take them long to figure out that they were "MY" birds and that it was unexceptable for them to even look their way. Enjoy them. Darci

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Michelle,

Are you sure? When I tried to blame a coccidia outbreak in my lambs on the free range chickens that shared their space, I was told that coccidia are species-specific (or at least that the coccidia that infect chickens aren't the same ones that infect sheep). Of course, I never bothered to do any follow up research, so perhaps I should....

 

IronHorse,

I hear ya on the predators. I too have had some interesting encounters with a Cooper's hawk. I just wish the predators would selectively take the roosters, but invariably they seem to get the hens. Folks around here think it's okay to shoot a hawk that's preying on poultry, but I disagree--they need to eat too. If it becomes a problem here, I'll simply get an LGD, as they will protect against avian predators as well as the four-legged kind.

 

We want to add some RIRs for the meat and eggs. The downside of bantams is that although they are great mothers, they are not prolific egg producers, and of course the eggs are small. They are tasty though! We'll probably have to cull some of the numerous roosters soon--it will be like eating McNuggets!

 

J.

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Julie;

I hear ya on the predators. I too have had some interesting encounters with a Cooper's hawk. I just wish the predators would selectively take the roosters, but invariably they seem to get the hens. Folks around here think it's okay to shoot a hawk that's preying on poultry, but I disagree--they need to eat too. If it becomes a problem here, I'll simply get an LGD, as they will protect against avian predators as well as the four-legged kind.

Isn't that the truth, them rascals always go for the prime hens and leave the raggity roosters to me.

The cooper hawks typically go for the pigeons which is fine,the pigeons reproduce at such a rate that it all balances out.

There is a good number of folk around here that feel its okay to shoot a hawk thats taking their birds,its illegal and if I can catch anyone in the act of killing a bird of prey they are going to pay hell for their stupidity.

I have rehabed far to many wounded Hawks and owls in my time to listen to any excuses.

I love my BOPs and I agree they need to eat too.

I can always fill a void in the chicken coop,I can't replace hawks and other BOPs so easy.

RIRs are a great all around breed,good solid egg producers and tasty on the plate as well.

I actually prefer the flavor of bantam eggs and will choose them over other larger breed eggs whenever I have the choice.

Emu eggs are very tasty and have next to zero cholesterol, they are also great for baking.

I only keep 2 adult females now for the egg production,,they were my best egg producers when I liquidated the rest of my emu flock. I get about 100 eggs during the winter months when my laying hens are off production anyway.

Emu's are suprizingly easy to keep,not many health issues to worry about once they reach maturity.

Very low impact on your land as far as erosion or ground compaction goes.

And the cost of feeding 1 emu is about the same as feeding 2 or 3 laying hens.

You can keep them healthy and happy on a postage stamp piece of ground too.

Very tolerant of weather extremes.

And most of all they don't have the nasty disposition of Ostriches, you still have to be watchful of their ability to kick and it can be an ugly kick,I've had one break a couple of my ribs,but it was my stupidity that was at fault (never try to tackle a wild emu after finishing your 4th plus whatever scotch lol)

Not much on the bird that goes to waste.

The meat is yummy and you can harvest alot of meat off a year old slaughter bird.

If you've never tried it you really should. I doubt it would be difficult to find a ratite rancher in your neck of the woods.

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Michelle,

Are you sure? When I tried to blame a coccidia outbreak in my lambs on the free range chickens that shared their space, I was told that coccidia are species-specific (or at least that the coccidia that infect chickens aren't the same ones that infect sheep). Of course, I never bothered to do any follow up research, so perhaps I should....

 

J.

 

I was wrong ... interesting though, when I was breeding cats, I would sometimes see some diarrhea in my kittens (and it had that sweet smell associated with coccidia) after they had access to the outside (and chicken poop) so I always assumed they were catching coccida from the chickens.

 

I wasn't careful, I learned something today! Thanks Kim!

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Julie, Coccidia, with the exception of toxoplasmosis, are species specific.

 

Kim

Ditto. Had an out break with my dogs once and was concerned that sheep and such would also get it. Vet said species specific. That they couldnt get it from the dogs, nor could have the dogs got it from them. Turned out, I groom in a pet store/ feed and tack store, and it came in with a litter of pups that the owners bought from a breeder. The whole litter almost died, in fact they lost 3 of 6 pups. I didnt even know my dogs had it, till I had one in for a fecal to check for worms, and the vet gave me this.."ya want the good news or the bad news?"

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So, if I am reading this right, RIR would be good for eggs and meat? What about the brown leghorn? Okay, I admit, it is really the cool looking rooster I want! LOL Gee whiz, there are so many different breeds of chickens! I just want a chicken that will brood her own eggs, lays pretty decent, and will do my chicken frying skills justice. Is that really asking too much? LOL I am looking at the McMurray hatchery website for ideas. Don't know where else to go but they mostly sell day old chicks, so I think when the weather turns warm again may be the best time to stock up.

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Around here, chicks are listed in the local paper/swapsheet or the feedstore (or someone at the feedstore can tell you who raises poultry). Can't imagine we're that different from other areas of the country. I've gotten ducklings and chicks from McMurray and wasn't disappointed although I've been told they aren't "show quality". The only thing I don't like is the quantity that you need to buy. I'm at the point where I don't want to order a dozen or so chicks and can buy smaller a quantity locally.

 

Kim

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Ditto, I got all of mine from the general feed store. Some time in the late? spring I think it was, they would have them there. With the exception of the peacocks, I got them from a bird breeder that advertised in the paper. I liked my leghorns for egg production, but loved the heavy breeds for eating. Mcmurray's has a large selection of poultry, and I too have on occation ordered from there and been happy with the results. They have some nice hard to find breeds some times, though i agree with Kim, that you have to buy x amount of birds before you can order. The way I got around that, was to ask other chicken owners in the area when I wanted to make an order if they would be interested in getting some too. Split the bill, shipping, and the amount of birds, but was able to get their required quota to order.

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Well, the quantity won't be a prob the first time I order, and I am hoping to perpetuate my own chicks. I already informed DH he was going to have to build me a brooder box! He asked if I even understood the word "retirement". I said yeah, more time for you to build me stuff! LOL Well, it's his fault for being so damn handy!

 

I think I will check with the feed store first to see what they have. Thanks for the idea!

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we started with 12, late spring, full grown from a poultry farm. we have RIRxNH crosses...its took about a month or more for them to start laying. We built our own boxes and then paid for a used metal 10 brooder box. After we put that in they started laying.

 

We will defintaly get more this summer, its great to give eggs away to friends and they taste so much better. Our crosses wouldn't be good for meat, they are really light and skinny.

 

We seemed to have two types, the chickens that could run away from danger, and the ones that would squat down and put out there wings....guess which ones survived?

 

Good luck with them, we love our chickens and they put a smile on our face everyday.

 

Here is one of them

chicken.jpg

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So, if I am reading this right, RIR would be good for eggs and meat?

 

If your just starting out then going with RIRs is a very solid plan,they are great all around birds and pretty hardy.

Once you get into having your own flock I would bet dollars to donuts you'll wind up like so many of us and have a motly crew within a few years,it just seems to gravitate in that direction,heh

You'll also start finding other ppl in your neck of the woods who keep flocks and finding that "cool" rooster is a lot easier then you might think.(of course you may find that pulling his head off of his body is the coolest thing you do to the mean sob)

Around here ppl who keep flocks of poultry are always swapping birds,I'm sure its no different around you.

 

Selling surplus eggs has never been a problem for me and it pretty much covers the cost of keeping my flock,plus often makes enough profit that I can purchase more birds with the proceeds.

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I'm another one with "motley crew" of various breeds and hybrids. At one time I had 40-50 hens and a rooster, but as the older ones started dying I mostly stopped replacing them to cut back on the numbers. Now I'm down to 11 hens and a rooster and I've got one RI Red, one Barred Plymouth Rock, some Harco's, a couple of Leghorn crosses and Columbian Rock x Red. I also seasonally raise meat chickens and turkeys, and have a couple of peacocks. I decided that it was time to get some new chicks this year but decided to try something new. In the past I've always either incubated my own eggs or bought chicks in the spring, but I thought I'd try fall chicks this year. The more I thought about it the more sense it seemed to make to me. They say you're not supposed to decrease the amount of daylight your pullets receive as they are maturing, yet spring chicks mature in the fall when the days are getting shorter. My coop doesn't have electricity so I can't provide any artificial light, they just have to make do with natural daylight. I always start my chicks under a heat lamp in my basement, and then move them out to the coop when the feathers come in (another problem with spring chicks, I need my brooding area for my meat chicks and turkeys). This is my first time raising fall chicks, we'll see how it goes. I timed it so that the chicks would be ready to move out to the coop to the space just vacated by the turkeys (which of course were all sold or in the freezer as of Thanksgiving weekend - the Canadian one). For my first attempt at fall chicks I chose Columbia Rock x Red since they're supposed to be a very hardy type of chicken. So far they're all doing well and timing it this way they will be maturing in the spring time, as the days are getting longer and it should hopefully work out very well. At least that's the plan.

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