Chesney's Girl Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Chesney has become very visually sensitive to moving lights! It started when we had a black out in Louisiana last spring and had to use the flashlights to see. Since then he will stare at the can lights in the ceiling, reflections on the ceiling in the car, or reflections on the walls when the sun beats in the window. When I notice him blankly staring at them I get on his case and he will stop then thinks he is sneaky and starts to stare at them again. Its to the point that I want to blind fold him in the car (as thats when it bugs me the most) when I can't exactly move him away from the reflections because often its from the direction we are driving... Anyways I guess what I am getting at is there anything I can do other than discourage him from doing it when I catch him and try to prevent the reflections? Thanks! ETA: here is a picture of what he looks like in the car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Is he just staring at them or does he try to go after them/chasing them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Mostly just staring (and drooling) at them but if he thinks he can get them he will make an attempt to get them either lunging or simply just moving with them. He never really tries to bite them though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Two words: Calming Cap!! I've heard good things about these for specific issues and it sounds like this may be just one of those issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Two words: Calming Cap!! I've heard good things about these for specific issues and it sounds like this may be just one of those issues. Oh yeah. And I just noticed you can get them from Jeffers now: Calming cap Also, dogs in cars should generally be in crates, and if the dog is in a crate you can cover it to block the stimulus. It took me a long time to come around to the "dogs in cars should be in crates" perspective, but I'm glad I did. The responsible choice is either seat belt or crate, and the crate is more restful for the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheRuffMuttGang Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 I am curious why covering a dog's eyes calms him? It's the exact opposite thing I've heard from all of the doggie chiropractors my dogs have gone to. They always make sure they DON'T cover their eyes when adjusting head/neck/jaw because it makes the dog more tense. I mean, if this were me, I sure as heck wouldn't be more calm with my eyes covered up. Maybe someone can explain the theory to me. Also, not everyone is lucky enough to have a vehicle that is able to hold crates. That doesn't mean that we don't think crates are the safest way to travel, it just means perhaps we can't afford a larger vehicle at this point in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Oh yeah. And I just noticed you can get them from Jeffers now: Calming cap Also, dogs in cars should generally be in crates, and if the dog is in a crate you can cover it to block the stimulus. It took me a long time to come around to the "dogs in cars should be in crates" perspective, but I'm glad I did. The responsible choice is either seat belt or crate, and the crate is more restful for the dog. I don't have the room for a crate in the back seat of my truck and I can't take the snug top off the bed because its like the trunk of a car for me and it rains a lot in Louisiana so taking that off to put a crate in the bed of the truck is not possible, plus I'm not a big fan of not having him in the cab with me. When we are in the truck however he does wear a harness that is belted in so he is wearing a 'seat belt'. I wish I could fit a crate in the back because thats what he would be riding in as he does seem calmer in the crate but unless I get a bigger truck/car I need other suggestions. Two words: Calming Cap!! I've heard good things about these for specific issues and it sounds like this may be just one of those issues. Erin, thats an interesting concept but I am thinking there is another way to handle him in the car. I know I wouldn't want to be blindfolded when I got in the car and couldn't see anything. Chesney shuts down when anything is put on his head.... including Halti's (we've tried the treat thing and he was so shut down he wouldn't eat them). I think it would bother me more knowing my dog doesn't look forward to riding in the truck with me because he gets blindfolded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Anyways I guess what I am getting at is there anything I can do other than discourage him from doing it when I catch him and try to prevent the reflections? Discouraging the behavior is exactly what I'd do/have done and it works fine. The thing is just not to expect it to be a total cure after one correction. A mildly annoyed correction (hey -- stop that!) and distraction as soon as he starts, and expect to administer 100 doses before cure is effected. That way you'll probably be pleasantly surprised that he needs less. I would only try to prevent the reflections when I wasn't in a position to correct him and make sure he didn't continue. Otherwise, you're depriving yourself of an opportunity to communicate to him that he shouldn't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 I am curious why covering a dog's eyes calms him? It's the exact opposite thing I've heard from all of the doggie chiropractors my dogs have gone to. They always make sure they DON'T cover their eyes when adjusting head/neck/jaw because it makes the dog more tense. I mean, if this were me, I sure as heck wouldn't be more calm with my eyes covered up. Maybe someone can explain the theory to me. Also, not everyone is lucky enough to have a vehicle that is able to hold crates. That doesn't mean that we don't think crates are the safest way to travel, it just means perhaps we can't afford a larger vehicle at this point in time. I agree with the crate opinion. As for safety, well if that was so true why not put children in crates? No, I'm not being krass or flippant, I mean why not if it is so safe? Why not? Because the child/dog will still suffer head trauma from rolling around in the crate in a real accident. Will it be safer in a fender bender, yes for sure, but in a major accident doubtful. Unless someone can produce some stats that prove the survival rate of crated dogs is higher in major accidents opposed to those merely lying down in the back of a coupe or sedan. Also, many of us don't have vehicles that can accomodate a crate so we must make do with what we got. I tried seat belting Freckles but she flipped out to completely after repeated attempts. We will try early on with Tucker though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 LJS, It's just my opinion but we crate ours in case we get hit (or hit something) hard enough, a door pops open. Dogs panic a lot easier and faster than people and I don't want either one of my dogs running from a scene of an accident. And I don't trust their recall during a time of panic. Even if a door doesn't pop open and rescuers have to force a door open, the last thing they need is to worry about getting dog bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 LJS, It's just my opinion but we crate ours in case we get hit (or hit something) hard enough, a door pops open. Dogs panic a lot easier and faster than people and I don't want either one of my dogs running from a scene of an accident. And I don't trust their recall during a time of panic. Even if a door doesn't pop open and rescuers have to force a door open, the last thing they need is to worry about getting dog bit. Now, you make a good point there. However what about us that don't have crate accomodating vehicles? I tell you, Freckles even at five months went bananas with the dog seat belt and destoyed one really quickly. We will do the seatbelt thing with Tucker once I have some money for a seat belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Now, you make a good point there. However what about us that don't have crate accomodating vehicles? I tell you, Freckles even at five months went bananas with the dog seat belt and destoyed one really quickly. We will do the seatbelt thing with Tucker once I have some money for a seat belt. I understand what you're saying. When we were looking for DH's 'work' car, one of the reasons we purchased the one we did was because you can fold the backseat down. DH wanted room for the boys in his car. So far, everytime we go somewhere and the boys go with us, I tell him we're taking the SUV. I might be over-protective but I have peace of mind. For anyone who can't fit a crate in their car, I would use the harness-type of safety device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Just an fyi - the Calming Cap does not completely blind the dog, it just blurs things - i've looked thru one myself and you can see shapes and movement and colors, just not as clearly. If you have trouble with other things on a dog's head though, I probably would resort to something else because the Cap will likely be a similar problem since it is a snugger fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 Make sure you're distracting/correcting every where that he's obsessing with reflections, and that he has other, interesting stuff to do instead of reflection watching. You don't want to leave him, for example, at home in a room where he can see sunlight flash off car windshields and reflect against the wall inside. You'll need to close blinds, drapes, etc, when you're not there, or when you can't be paying attention to what he's doing. You don't want him to do this at all, ever, so you've got to remove the possibility of reflection when you can't be working with him. You can also have somebody else drive while you correct/distract a few times. If you're not seeing progress within a reasonable period of time, maybe a few weeks, it's time to contact a veterinary behaviorist. And it doesn't need to be fixed totally, you should just be able to see clear progress. Good luck! Ruth n the BC3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 I agree with the crate opinion. As for safety, well if that was so true why not put children in crates? No, I'm not being krass or flippant, I mean why not if it is so safe? Why not? Because the child/dog will still suffer head trauma from rolling around in the crate in a real accident. Will it be safer in a fender bender, yes for sure, but in a major accident doubtful. Unless someone can produce some stats that prove the survival rate of crated dogs is higher in major accidents opposed to those merely lying down in the back of a coupe or sedan. Also, many of us don't have vehicles that can accomodate a crate so we must make do with what we got. Well, you do have car seats for kids - they aren't just laying around on the floor And it has been proven that carseats are the safest place for a child to be in an accident. As far as crates for dogs, in an accident you could have flying stuff all over your car (and with a sudden stop at 60 mph, a flying kleenex box has enough force to break your neck). You will be safer without a dog flying at you, and your dog will be safer not being in the position to fly through the car/windshield/open window/etc. Yup, there's still going to be some trauma in the crate or seatbelt, but your dog is not going to be moving nearly as far, and has a greater chance of coming through the accident alive. I know not everyone has a vehicle that can accommodate a crate, and even though mine does I don't always use one, but there is sound reasoning behind using a crate or seatbelt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 It's just my opinion but we crate ours in case we get hit (or hit something) hard enough, a door pops open. Dogs panic a lot easier and faster than people and I don't want either one of my dogs running from a scene of an accident. And I don't trust their recall during a time of panic. Even if a door doesn't pop open and rescuers have to force a door open, the last thing they need is to worry about getting dog bit. These were the big reasons for me too: 1. Stops dog from bolting from car into traffic in case of an accident 2. Gives EMTs a better chance to deal with injured people and dogs than if hurt or aggressive dog is loose in car There have been studies, but I'm having trouble with slow internet access right now so won't try to search for them. However, a really good review of different dog seat belts, with citations, is here: Dog Seatbelt Feature Comparison Don't know what kind of seat belt you were using with Freckles, but maybe this will review steer you to a better one. And yeah, the calming cap is not a blindfold. It's like looking through a dense screen. The dog can still see what's going on but it's all a bit fuzzier. In general, dogs' senses are way sharper than ours, and the world is constantly bombarding them with stimuli that most of us would find exhausting if we were in their shoes. Think of the calming cap as earplugs for the eyes -- with earplugs, you can still hear the kid howling three rows back in the plane but you're a lot less likely to want to jump up and strangle him if you've got earplugs in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Ack! ignore this - my computer has a mind of it's own this morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 I believe it was a Ruff Rider I got from Petsmart. I put it on her, which was no problem, but once we hit the road she was just rolling in the back seat trying to tear it up. Needless to say Freckles has a neat way of making short work of things, so it was a total loss. After spending that money, which is hard to come by, I gave up. Perhaps I was too early on giving that up but nonetheless I did at that point. I'm getting one for Tucker as soon as possible so he can get used to it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 These were the big reasons for me too: 1. Stops dog from bolting from car into traffic in case of an accident 2. Gives EMTs a better chance to deal with injured people and dogs than if hurt or aggressive dog is loose in car There have been studies, but I'm having trouble with slow internet access right now so won't try to search for them. However, a really good review of different dog seat belts, with citations, is here: Dog Seatbelt Feature Comparison Don't know what kind of seat belt you were using with Freckles, but maybe this will review steer you to a better one. And yeah, the calming cap is not a blindfold. It's like looking through a dense screen. The dog can still see what's going on but it's all a bit fuzzier. In general, dogs' senses are way sharper than ours, and the world is constantly bombarding them with stimuli that most of us would find exhausting if we were in their shoes. Think of the calming cap as earplugs for the eyes -- with earplugs, you can still hear the kid howling three rows back in the plane but you're a lot less likely to want to jump up and strangle him if you've got earplugs in. Do EMT's even bother working on dogs? That would be interesting seeing an accident seeing and an EMT doing mouth to snout on some poor injured dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 I don't think she was implying that the EMTs would be working on the dog, but injured dogs can be aggressive and it would be a shame if the EMT couldn't give help to the *human* because of an injured and panicky dog loose in the vehicle. I recognize that some vehicles can't accommodate crates--I used to drive around with 6 dogs in a Honda Civic, but I knew I was taking a huge risk if I ever got in an accident. I ended up breaking down and giving up the cute little gas-sipping car for a van so my dogs could ride safely in crates in the back. I'm sure gazillions of dogs ride loose in cars (or the backs of pickups) daily without any disasters happening, but really there's a good reason that safety seats are mandated for children (as has been already stated in this thread), and so it would make sense to somehow restrain your pets in the vehicle as well. There's no reason you can't start over with Freckles and train her to ride with a seat belt on. There are two of you--one can drive while the other sits back with Freckles and prevents her from destroying the seat belt while praising her for sitting quietly. It can be done--it's just like training anything else. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheRuffMuttGang Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 One day I will have a cargo van that will accomodate LOTS of crates...but for now, I'm stuck with toting 8 dogs around in my Honda Civic. I figure they're packed in so tight that they aren't going anywhere. Yes, I am aware of how disastrous it could be should I get into an accident. But, seriously, I don't have a choice right now so it's either leave my dogs at home all of the time or pile them into my Civic. Sorry, but I ain't livin' with 8 dogs that never get out of the house! I still want to know why blinding and/or blurring the vision of a dog is said to calm the dog down. It seems to me either situation would make a dog more frantic. Just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Debbie, I don't think anyone has said that you (or anyone else) shouldn't take your dogs out in the car. I think the point people have been trying to make is that *if* you *can* properly restrain the dogs for their safety, then it makes sense to do so. If you can't, well, then you just can't. When I drove a Civic, I didn't restrain dogs, but then they all lay quietly on the seats or in the floorboards, so they weren't endangering me just by riding quietly either. I think it makes sense to make people aware of the risks of having an unrestrained dog(s) in the vehicle. And I think if a dog were behaving in the vehicle in a manner that was distracting to the driver, then it's imperative to restrain the dog, as taking the driver's attention away from driving can have disastrous consequences (as if there aren't already enough distractions for the average driver as it is). ETA: I told this story to some friends at dinner the other night, and it sure dates me. I can remember driving to town in the old Corvair (Anyone remember them? Ralph Nader became a household name thanks to that car.), and I can remember my mother telling us, very seriously, that if she ever yelled at us to hit the floor, we were to dive into the floorboards. We used to make a big joke of it (which pissed her off), especially when she made us practice, but back then seatbelts weren't required in cars, and teaching us to dive into the floorboards was the best way she had of trying to protect us in case of an accident. Vehicle passenger safety has come a long way since those days. I don't think car seats even existed.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted August 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 I think the idea of the calming cap is to freeze the dog where they are. Tucker (who is smart but not sharp) had a towel over his head and he just stood there and was very relaxed with his eyes covered. I think thats the idea of the cap is to immobilize the dog. I think thats how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheRuffMuttGang Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 It just sounds like the material equivalent of Ace. Impede the dog to prevent unwanted behavior but in reality it just makes the behavior worse if it's not impeded...and scares the dog in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Debbie,I don't think anyone has said that you (or anyone else) shouldn't take your dogs out in the car. I think the point people have been trying to make is that *if* you *can* properly restrain the dogs for their safety, then it makes sense to do so. If you can't, well, then you just can't. When I drove a Civic, I didn't restrain dogs, but then they all lay quietly on the seats or in the floorboards, so they weren't endangering me just by riding quietly either. I think it makes sense to make people aware of the risks of having an unrestrained dog(s) in the vehicle. And I think if a dog were behaving in the vehicle in a manner that was distracting to the driver, then it's imperative to restrain the dog, as taking the driver's attention away from driving can have disastrous consequences (as if there aren't already enough distractions for the average driver as it is). ETA: I told this story to some friends at dinner the other night, and it sure dates me. I can remember driving to town in the old Corvair (Anyone remember them? Ralph Nader became a household name thanks to that car.), and I can remember my mother telling us, very seriously, that if she ever yelled at us to hit the floor, we were to dive into the floorboards. We used to make a big joke of it (which pissed her off), especially when she made us practice, but back then seatbelts weren't required in cars, and teaching us to dive into the floorboards was the best way she had of trying to protect us in case of an accident. Vehicle passenger safety has come a long way since those days. I don't think car seats even existed.... J. Yes Julie, I realize there is a danger and will work on that when I take both Tucker and Freckles on car trips. As for the Corvair, that was a real legendary vehicle. Nader attacked it without even really knowing the adjustments engineers made in order to make the Corvair safe. In fact it all had to do with a certain suspension modification that was made in later Corvair's. Nonetheless a fully restored Corvair attracts a huge price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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