Is it possible?

[AV8DRVR]

So, how do you get into raising sheep? I still have a few years before i have to decide my fate with the military. With the herding, how tough is that to get into? are there any books, border collie specific that anyone would recommend?

[Pippin's person]

I can't say much about raising sheep, but I think livestock work generally is pretty tough--it's definitely one of the most challenging things I've ever tried to do (and I am very much in the beginning "trying" stage and expect to be here for at least another several years--then I hope to move into the intermediate "trying" stage).

 

I think how hard it is depends a lot on what your experience with livestock has been, what your experience with dogs has been and how long you can walk backwards without falling down...well maybe that last one is only for those of us raised in the suburbs.

 

There are lots of good books and I'm sure folks will recommend many. I really liked Patricia McConnell's books when we were first starting with Pippin--she doesn't describe a lot of livestock work, but she does describe a lot about living with Border Collies (and dogs generally). There are several good herding books--but I found that I couldn't really understand them until I'd tried to do it for a while--and I can still really only follow as much as where I am in my own training. There are also some nice DVDs out there that talk about herding--the Shepherd's Pup is one of my favorites.

[juliepoudrier]

So, how do you get into raising sheep? I still have a few years before i have to decide my fate with the military. With the herding, how tough is that to get into? are there any books, border collie specific that anyone would recommend?

For me, I was raised on a farm (horses, dairy goats, poultry), and rare breed conservation was something I've wanted to do since I was a child. As Robin said, having a background with livestock does give you a leg up, but pretty much anyone can learn to raise sheep. Just don't expect to get rich doing so (in fact, you may have to work off the farm to help support your sheep-farming efforts). Once I started working with sheep, I found that I *really liked* them. I basically kept my eyes out for breeds I was interested in and bought them as I could (some are more expensive than others) once I had the room to keep some. But by then I already had well-trained dogs, so I didn't need to concern myself with buying sheep appropriate for beginner dogs/handlers and could instead concentrate on breeds I liked/wanted.

 

As for trialing, it is not easy to start out and it's certainly not easy to be good at the upper levels (open), especially if you have no experience with livestock. But with a good dog and a good mentor, you can learn a lot about handling livestock properly (with and without a dog), as well as all the nuances of trialing. But really it's not necessary to raise sheep or trial your dog just because you have a border collie. If the farm life or livestock is something that appeals to you, then it might make sense to get into that aspect of things--and I can tell you that I wouldn't keep sheep if I didn't have my dogs to help me--but if you're happy doing frisbee or agility or whatever strikes your fancy, that's cool too! Your dog will be happy doing whatever you want, as long as s/he's doing it with you! (After all, I started out with border collies as jogging partners and with the very vague notion that I might want to do agility, though I really knew nothing about it. I just ended up raising sheep, but it was pretty much a natural progression for me because I was raised that way.)

 

J.

[AK dog doc]

So, how do you get into raising sheep?

Step 1: Get a Border collie and become addicted develop an enthusiasm for them.

Step 2: Whilst suffering delerium from your BC addiction enjoying your BC and all it can do, try herding "just for fun"

Step 3: Become addicted to herding Decide herding isn't bad and maybe you'll do it again some time.

Step 4: Spend all your free time and money taking lessons and enduring humilitation at the hands of dog and sheep Enjoy an interesting and invigorating hobby once a week - or maybe twice wouldn't be too much, it's fresh air after all... fresh air is good for you, maybe three times a week would be better...

Step 5: Decide all that fresh air is really something the whole family ought to enjoy and buy some acerage in a rural or semi-rural area. Meanwhile continue training - just for fun, of course.

Step 6: Fences - just to keep the children safe and strays out, you understand.

Step 7: Go completely insane Decide you might like to compete in a trial just to see how it's done.

Step 8: Suffer further addiction, which is by now causing delusions Decide this time-honored activity is rich with history and meaning, and resolve to do it again some day - in the distant future, of course, not next week... Oh, can I sign up for one next week? Well, as long as I'm here....

Step 9: Spend more time lurking on sheep breed sites than most kids spend on Nintendo Happen accross an agricultural website with a few cute pics of sheep breeds which you're sure your spouse will want to see - as they're so cute and all.

Step 10: Send spouse on a vacation so they won't notice the big stock truck offloading 40 or 50 wooly quadrupeds. Feign deafness and ignorance when spouse returns and asks inconvenient questions.

 

Ta-da!!!! You're a stockman now!

 

Okay, just kidding. For real advice, see Julie's post.

 

Scurries away before anyone notices that I'm on step 4....

[Bo Peep]

LOL-

We had 5 acres and ex hubby said- anything but sheep- Well, I was happy with my kids and their 4-H program with pygmy goats. Then I got addicted to the goats. I went to look for a good farm dog. Considered aussies & BC's did my homework and figured since I'm hyper, guess I should get a hyper dog too. So, off I went to get my first dog. OMG- the most wonderful easy trainable dog I ever had. Then, I started thinking, is it the dog or the breed? So, I had to get another to be sure. And then another, then a rescue, and then another. I saw my first trial. WOW!!!! I wasn't into the Internet then, so I searched the paper, found someone and made friends. She brought 3 sheep over for me to "borrow" wheeeeeee. What a disaster. Then, I joined the Oregon Sheep Dog Society. Made some friends, got some free lessons from good trainers, bought some sheep (against ex's advice) The list goes on. I think this might be about 1/2 of our stories. Some of us bought sheep for our dogs and some bought dogs for our sheep, but in the end. You'll probably end up on a farm which is great for your kids. Good responsibility of taking care of animals and doing chores.

Oh- I've had Border Collies since 1987. I've on my 7th keeper and did rescue before in Oregon. My dog now is an only dog. I'm planning on getting a rescue later on, maybe 6 months.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Bo Peep

[Vickkers]

Welcome!

 

I just want to point out that a LOT of dogs go through the nipping/chasing stage as puppies and the BC is no different...they just have to be taught not to do it.

 

Although if you want life a little easier, an older rescue would probably be a good idea.

 

I hope you find what is going to be the best for you and your situation.

 

Good luck!

[AV8DRVR]

Thank you all for the help! I mis-phrased one of my previous questions. It should have been "how did you get into raising sheep" as opposed to "do you." I'm just trying to take this one step at a time. I've been looking a lot at the rescue sites for the carolinas and have seen some dogs that I would like to take today! I just have to keep giving myself corrections, and exercise a little patience.

 

Cheers,

 

Scratcher

[ErinKate]

I have had BCs for 11yrs. Have loved every minute! I have been lucky with mine. They have all been VERY easy.

My one was renamed. I was not calling my Pete "Hoss"! lol No offence to anyone with that name, but it didn't fit the dog at all. Max kept his name just because I couldn't find anything else to call him! lol

I haven't been brave enough to take on any livestock of my own. We are a thoroughbred farm, so we are dead set against having any wire fencing anywere. We are all 4 board. I would think you would need wire it to keep in sheep/goats, and keep out any coyotes. I need instruction anyway, I think if I were unsupervised, I would ruin my dogs! Yes, I said it, I'm not ashamed! Without knowing more about you, I would think you are in the same boat as me on herding experience. It is easier to do things right the first time than to have to correct a behavior.

[Guest pax]

I have had BCs for 11yrs. Have loved every minute! I have been lucky with mine. They have all been VERY easy.

My one was renamed. I was not calling my Pete "Hoss"! lol No offence to anyone with that name, but it didn't fit the dog at all. Max kept his name just because I couldn't find anything else to call him! lol

I haven't been brave enough to take on any livestock of my own. We are a thoroughbred farm, so we are dead set against having any wire fencing anywere. We are all 4 board. I would think you would need wire it to keep in sheep/goats, and keep out any coyotes. I need instruction anyway, I think if I were unsupervised, I would ruin my dogs! Yes, I said it, I'm not ashamed! Without knowing more about you, I would think you are in the same boat as me on herding experience. It is easier to do things right the first time than to have to correct a behavior.

 

 

You can pin woven wire up on the inside of the four board. I had to do that anyway to keep neighbour dogs OUT of the field.

 

Are you in Ocala?

 

I am finding the addition of sheep of to horses pretty easy. I hope my sheep are finding it so, too.

 

 

 

To the OP:

 

My husband is retired Navy. He was a helicoptor pilot. At least, that's the part of his service he enjoyed most.

 

In my case, I had a farm and just added sheep when I got bitten by the bug. There is a well known joke about the people who get a BC puppy and end up buying it a farm.

[ErinKate]

Pax---yes, I am in beautiful Ocala. Seeing your avatar, do you ever come to H.I.T.S.?

I am sure I could make room for sheep, just hate the thought of having wire anywhere on my farm.

If you ever find yourself in my neck of the woods, come on by!

[Guest pax]

I stopped doing HITS Ocala a long time ago and did mostly Wellington when I was still making the trek. I don't anymore. Strictly local these days, kids and a second marriage slowed me down a bit, my new husband couldn't take the travel.

 

But here in Virginia we did all the outside foaling out and breed backs for North Cliff (TBs) and a lot of AI for a local woman who stands Hanoverians, for years. Sales preps and lay ups. some breaking, but limited, we sent all the 2 yos down your way.

 

 

And I'm really with you on the wire. I am a four board chickie all the way. My problem was feral dogs, coyotes, and the occasional small bear. We went around and put stallion wire, the diamond woven stuff, around the inside of ALL the paddocks and never once had an issue. Just stretched it out and tacked it up inside the rails, just u nailed it right down.

 

It was a bigger pain to weed whack but less of a pain than worrying about my stupid neighbour's Heelers chasing horses.

 

 

 

Thanks for the invite. I might take you up on it if I find myself heading towards Ocala. : )

[painted_ponies]

Scrtchr,

A member of Phoenix Rising is also a member of this board (screen name: Painted Ponies). Hopefully she'll see this thread and get in touch with you privately.

 

J.

 

Yikes. Sorry to have only just seen this. Just click on the link in my sig to go to our website, although it sounds like you've been there already. I am in northeastern SC, although most of my group is in the Upstate, pretty far west of here. Feel free to PM me if you'd like.

[SoloRiver]

I'm glad that you're open to an adult rescue. I really do believe it is the best option for a new Border Collie owner and especially for someone who would benefit greatly from having a dog that is a known quantity, like someone who has kids, or certain lifestyle limitations.

 

I have two Border Collies, and got both as adults. One is a rescue, and the other was bought as a trained sheepdog.

 

Yes, you miss the puppy stage. Of course every now and then I wonder what they were like as puppies. Of course I love puppies. I suppose I could have held out for a puppy and not gotten the dogs that I have, but oh, what a tragedy that would have been. Solo, my first Border Collie, was 16 months old when I adopted him. He is my soulmate. I cannot imagine life without him. He is my once in a lifetime dog. After he is gone, I will be looking for another Solo until the day I die.

 

Would I trade a few months of puppyhood for my life with Solo? HELL NO.

 

Fly is a dog I added to the household who needed to fulfill a very particular role and have a very specific type of personality. She is absolutely delightful. She is never anything but maniacally gleeful. She is trustworthy at all times and faultlessly obedient. She taught me how to handle a sheepdog. She handles urban life with aplomb. She loves Solo, who usually doesn't play well with the other kids. Fly came as the perfect package for me and Solo.

 

Do I regret not getting a puppy instead of Fly? NO WAY.

 

Do I want a puppy someday? Sure. Who doesn't want a puppy? Am I sorry I didn't get a puppy before? How could I possibly be sorry? Then I wouldn't have the two dogs that I have now.

 

I'm not saying you can't do well if you don't start with a puppy. What I am saying is that you should keep your heart open. People who are set on puppies tend to have closed hearts to adult dogs. It isn't that they couldn't have fallen in love with an adult rescue, but they chose not to. There isn't anything wrong with that -- if you want a puppy, you want a puppy and it'll probably work out OK if you're smart and determined -- but oh, the dogs you miss out on when you close your heart to them.

[AV8DRVR]

Melanie,

 

I do think that there are a lot of great dogs that are out there available for rescuing (sp). While I think that a puppy would be great fun and extremely cute, even the most active border collie can't catch a frisbee or go for a 4 mile run at 6 weeks. We recently sent in an application to the CBCR. We are going to try to get the home visit done before I leave.

 

I have read that bc's are fairly obsessive about some things, and it looks like many of the owners around here have that same trait. I look forward to joining your ranks.

 

Cheers

 

Scratch

[OurBoys]

I have read that bc's are fairly obsessive about some things, and it looks like many of the owners around here have that same trait. I look forward to joining your ranks.

 

 

You guys are going to fit in just fine!!!!

 

I don't have the intelligence level a lot of people on these boards but I still believe intelligent people enjoy and need intelligent dogs. JMO