Is it possible?

[juliepoudrier]

AV8DRVR,

 

We adopted Jake through CBCR and he was never listed on their website. Neither was his brother.

When I got Willow (Appalachian Mountain Border Collie Rescue), she wasn't listed on their site either. I got her because they thought *I* would be perfect *for her* (and not the other way around, although she turned out to be perfect for me too, but she was very shy and had special needs related to that, which I was willing to work with). She just turned 10 in June, and it's really thanks to her that I am where I am today (sheep farmer and all!).

 

J.

[OurBoys]

I got her because they thought *I* would be perfect *for her* (and not the other way around, although she turned out to be perfect for me too, but she was very shy and had special needs related to that, which I was willing to work with).

 

J.

 

That's the way it was with Jake!! We have had JJ for a couple of years before getting Jake. We had taken JJ to a few obedience classes, he had gotten his CGC and he goes with us to a number of different places. (JJ would be, and is, the perfect kid's dog.) Jake had spent the most of his previous life tied to a tree. CBRC felt Jake needed a home like ours. I'm glad they did.

[AV8DRVR]

Are there any bc clubs or assn's in east nc? I'd like to be able to do the agility/frisbee type activities with people who actually know what they are doing.

[bettilu]

Rescue is definitely an option. I'm kind of leaning toward the puppy since I will be able to mold it from a very early age and I sort of just like puppies. I know it's a selfish and silly reason, but I can't discount it. I also forgot to mention that we have a cat. If you have a cat, how does your bc get along with it.

 

 

I understand the importance of rescue, but I am only going from my experience with puppies and I have found that with my borders, I was able to train them to be wonderful well behaved pets (from puppy hood), and yes it was a lot of work (especially when my kids were little), but I wouldn't have traded my pups that I had for the world, and btw, pups need rescuing too...it really has to do with what YOU want to do and the level of commitment that both you and your wife are willing to give to train and raise your pup/dog.

 

We have a cat. We brought Bo home at 8 weeks and they do fine together. Sometimes there is a little extra sparring action going on, but I stop it right away...they do play together though.

 

I'm not an expert by any means, but I have had dogs all of my life and I don't think it is silly or selfish to want a puppy. I know this is going to tick off alot of people on this board, but unless you are 100 % in knowing the history of a rescue dog, I would not get one with young children. Sorry, that is just my opinion...I'm sure there are a lot of wonderful rescue dogs out there, and I sincerely hope they find good homes, but no one can be completely sure of a dog (even if you do raise them) but at least if you raise them from puppyhood you know their history.

 

That being said, good luck with your decision;only you can know what is best for you and your family.

[IronHorse]

Heres abit of a different way of looking at it.

All Border Collies are born to be pilots,,,some will grow to become fighter pilots,,some will grow to be Commercial Pilots some Recreational Pilots some Sport Pilots and so on.

The draw back with starting with a puppy is that the puppy although genetically designed to be a pilot he has had zero flight training so his/her abilities are an unknown regardless of the bloodline.

 

On the other hand a Border Collie coming from a reputable rescue has had fairly extensive testing done and their qualifications are fairly well known.

The application and follow on information that the rescue folk gather is to best fit you and your family with the type of pilot that best suits your desires.

 

Do you want your kids drug through 9g turns? probably not,and the puppy that you got could easily turn out to be a fighter pilot that loves nothing more then yanking the stick and pushing the envelope.

You can be selective to a degree by going the rescue route,,,you don't have to take a dog just because they are suggesting one as being well suited,you can pass and wait for another.

 

The info that you have already put out here on the boards would go along way as far as being a ideal canditate for any rescue organization,so please don't be put off by rescue.

Rescue Organizations are fantastic pilot Examiners.

 

Have a safe tour and the best of luck to you.

[AK dog doc]

I'm going to add my thanks to that of the others. My Dad was Air Force, my brother Navy, and my BF is a jet pilot, so I'd automatically feel I have maybe a little in common with you based on those peripheral associations... but even without them, I would bless you for what you do. I'm sure we all hope you keep well over there.

 

Meanwhile, I think you and your wife sound like you could be an excellent BC home. BCs CAN be high drive (though not all of them are), but - and correct me if I'm wrong, here - I kinda think that you have to be somewhat high drive to be a marine, yes? That sort of sounds like a personality match. (Also, your wife sounds kinda high-drive herself... two little children AND finishing her Master's? You GO, girl!)

 

You're to be commended for doing your homework first, AND for having already laid the groundwork with the kids for being respectful of and gentle with animals. There will probably be more work to do - there always is, with children! - but you have a good start on it.

 

I also agree with the others that rescue would be an excellent route for your first BC. Not only are you saving a life, but you're getting much more in the way of a known quantity. My first two BCs were rescues (and got me hooked - I've since gotten two more BCs and a BC/whippet mix.) It's quite true that the adults were MUCH easier to integrate into the household in terms of sheer work, as compared to the puppies. Also, BCs are kind of meant to be able to re-bond... if a farmer sold a working dog to someone else, and it wouldn't re-bond to the new farmer and wouldn't work for the new farmer, it wouldn't be a valuable working dog for the new owner. But so far, every BC I've known personally (mine, those I encounter at work, and the many stories I've read here) seems capable of bonding very strongly to a new owner. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who DON'T do their homework ahead of time, so there are quite a lot of BCs in rescue. And, of course, sometimes circumstances change through no fault of the owner. Plus some people just don't have the right stuff. Those people shouldn't have a BC, IMO. The dog deserves better.

 

Anyway, I feel your pain on waiting, though I think you're wise to consider your circumstances and plan ahead. Stay safe and feel free to update us from wherever "over there" is for you!

 

ETA: I have to disagree that you have to be "100% in knowing the history" of a rescue dog. A properly-evaluated adult dog is IMO much more of a known quantity than a puppy. A pup is a bit of a pig in a poke. You don't know what their adult personality is going to be. An adult dog will show you what its personality already IS. JMO, of course.

[Guest WoobiesMom]

Well as for my bride, she is up for it. She is finishing her masters in Dec, yet another reason that we are waiting. She definitely has her hands full.

 

As far as the vibe I get from the rescues...It probably stems from me reading about how border collies are not for people with kids and then seeing the adoption application. I know that we could put up a good home for the dog, I just get concerned that the rescue folks wouldn't think so. However, I haven't actually spoken to a person at a rescue so I really have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

Can you rename rescue dogs?

 

Scrtchr

 

 

I felt the same way. And there is a rescue group here in Richmond that is pretty hoity toity in my opinion. BUT, although I felt like the one we went to was going to ask for a DNA sample and a pee test, I got my Woobie at the end of it, so it was worth it. Just know that if they are being that careful, they are really trying to do the absolute best for the dog and to make sure there's a placement that will work.

 

Good luck!

[OurBoys]

Are there any bc clubs or assn's in east nc? I'd like to be able to do the agility/frisbee type activities with people who actually know what they are doing.

 

I don't know how far you are from Jacksonville but maybe someone at the website listed below can be of more help.

 

http://www.ncanimalhouseagility.com/

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Semper fi!

 

I can help connect you with some of the rescuers in the area. I think I'm the farthest east though I'm a bit north, too - but I find myself as close as Fayetteville fairly often. That can help with transport and such.

 

I'm not aware of much going on in your area, unfortunately, but the Triangle is hopping with dog activities. You can do some general training with kennel club facilities (just do a search on "dog training" and Jacksonville). Once you get to a certain level of competancy, you can do a lot of training in your back yard. The kids love that stuff, trust me. For disc dog stuff especially you'll just want to get a video or two and start on your own.

 

That reminds me of one other nice thing about adopting an adult. You can start formal training right away. You can't do that with a puppy - you have to wait for pup to grow up - eighteen months for agility jumping and frisbee! With just a little conditioning, you'll be able to take your adult rescue out for those long runs, and sign up right away for adult obedience and then agility, and start teaching those cool frisbee moves.

[AV8DRVR]

Thanks to all who took the time to respond. I am actually the "wife," reading my husband's posts and and was already pushing the rescue idea. I had dogs growing up (although not bc's) and am well aware of the work involved with the puppy stage. With two human babies already, I think a young rescue dog--with whom I/we would be still willing to put in a lot of time with--would be ideal. I would like an active companion now, and the fur-baby my husband really wants in several years when we don't have human babies. (One baby at a time!!) I am glad this board is showing him more reasons to go the rescue option. I agree with him that a bc would be a great fit for our active family. (My husband and I are both active people--runners, etc.) I also think it is very important to teach the children respect for the dog as a family member and not a play toy. The now three year old is respectful of our cat (with occasional reminders) and we are teaching our ten-month old the same thing. Too many people turn a blind eye to their children to hurting their dog, yet are outraged when the dog hurts a child (Neither is acceptable). Thanks for your advice and sharing your experiences with the breed!

 

The "AV8-whatever wife "

[mbc1963]

... I think I am being convinced that rescue is definitely the way to go. 3-4 yrs old huh, I'm assuming most of the rescues would already be house broken and trained to sit, lie down, etc.

 

One more argument in favor of adoption:

 

I got Buddy when he was about 18 - 24 months old. He came home on a Saturday. I went to work on Monday. Told my students that I had a new dog who was in my house, uncrated. They FREAKED! Told me the house would be destroyed when I got home! Well... not a single incident. Buddy has never chewed anything but his own toys, never made a mess in the house, and never opened up a single package of food left on the counter. Seriously! The worst thing he ever did when I was away was to bring my old smelly socks into his bed, so he could smell my scent. Never chewed or tore them - just wanted to sleep with them.

 

Mind you, he did have a lot of fear and reactivity issues that we had to work through - and I wouldn't have chosen him if I had kids - but from a "low or high maintenance" standpoint, getting a full adult was wonderful! I feel almost like I cheated, when I hear stories of my friends' dogs who ate their wallpaper, chewed the couch, destroyed a rug, etc..

 

Mary

[Tranquilis]

BCs CAN be high drive (though not all of them are), but - and correct me if I'm wrong, here - I kinda think that you have to be somewhat high drive to be a marine, yes?

Heh!

 

In my experience, this is an extremely apt comparison. Yeah, the Marines are Devil Dogs, but IME, the BC personality fits far better: Driven, gung-ho, loyal, intelligent, focused, and tireless. Give a Marine a task, then get the hell out of the way while he gets to it!

 

Y'all live in on-base housing, or are you off-base? That may make a difference. IME, base housing is surprisingly accessable to exercise for both humans and animals, but animal restritions can be annoying, depending on the base. On-base housing also typically has a LOT of distractions, from young kids, to older kids at loose ends, to other pets. OTOH, on-base housing usually means that there's others with whom you share interests, and there may be other BCs in the neighborhood - if so, ask your neighbors how well they fit in.

 

If you're off-base, well, I haven't much to say about that - it's like any other community.

 

Edit:

BTW: Harriers, yes?

[AK dog doc]

Good point about the housing (on/off base)... hadn't thought about that.

 

AV8wife, I'll say it again: You GO, girl! You sound like a ducks-in-a-row kinda person. I think you'll do fine with a BC. (And yes, since BCs ARE addictive, you'll probably end up with a puppy/fur-baby in the future, when your own babies are a little older...)

[AV8DRVR]

I like the pilot analogy! OurBoys/Rebecca, thanks for pointing me in the direction of the agility clubs. While I am not looking for the "fighter pilot" dog (There can be only one ego that big in the house and our quota is full) I would like an "airshow" dog, one that can be high octane at times, but not always. We live off base in a golf community, lots of open space, but i don't think the actual golfers would appreciate a dog chasing a frisbee while they are trying to make their approach. None the less, there are some wide open spaces to really cut the dog loose around here. The base housing here is fairly strict, all dogs have to be chipped now, and i don't think they are allowed to be off leash.

 

Scratcher

[Tranquilis]

While I am not looking for the "fighter pilot" dog (There can be only one ego that big in the house and our quota is full)...

Hah!

 

Like every other fighter/attack pilot I've ever known! No problem with the dog knowing who's Alpha!

 

The base housing here is fairly strict, all dogs have to be chipped now, and i don't think they are allowed to be off leash.

Yeah, that matches my recollection, minus the chipping. In my time, tags were manditory, as chips weren't yet being used. No tags, your CO got a call... Not pleasant!

[AV8DRVR]

Tranquilis,

 

Were you over here at ole cheerless? I do fly Harriers, and we have our rivalry with the fighter guys, since we are primarily attack players.

 

For all,

 

How long have you had border collies? and what made you get into them?

[RaisingRiver]

I think many folks follow a route similar to mine, which was to start with a young adult rescue and add a pup later when I knew I was ready for the challenge.

 

'a pup when I knew I was ready for a challenge'

 

Exactly! LOL. My first BC, but not my first dog was a puppy. I was SO LUCKY she grew up to be such a great dog and a very good fit for me. When looking for BC #2 (dog #3) I knew a puppy was not something I could take on. I wanted an evaluated dog that was housetrained, good with kids, dogs, and laid back for a BC. I got Diesel from TDBCR in Canada. Perfect. 15mos old, I gave him is 3rd new name (took 2 days to fully learn it), he blended nicely with my household. My 3 kids are older, ages 8-11 and I work from home, but taxi the kids to school and to their busy afternoon schedules.

 

I'm another vote for rescue. Even if you end up going the puppy route, there are lots of puppies in rescue, just be patient. You can also foster a dog or two to see what it's like to have a BC, to really find out what kind of energy level dog you want and need and in the process you'll prove your worthiness to the Rescue and help out a great cause. You might even fail fostering by keeping a dog you foster - many do.

 

Best of luck.

[Tranquilis]

Tranquilis,

 

Were you over here at ole cheerless?

Not myself, though I have friends from there. I, personally, am an old submariner, but I've known a lot of Marines over the years - My wife's best friend and maid of honor married a canon-cocker from Pendelton, and I worked for a medicalled-out F-16 pilot (destroyed his ankle on an ejection) at one point, as well as serving alongside them in various capacities (Nav and Marine) in my post-sub days, including F-16 and A-6 types. Wife's cousin is maried to an F-16 type, too.

 

Get an 'F' and an 'A' pilot together in a bar, and watch the (metaphorical) fur fly! Barbs and jokes and one-upsmanship... It's fun! Get them together in a staff meeting, and it's almost as much fun. (need an 'evil' smilie here) Get them together on the PT course, and... Wow! Talk about testosterone poisoning! Watching the CO (bombers) and the Officer Programs officer (fighters) at the NRD trying to run each other into the ground was always a hoot!

 

Most of the Marines I've known were serious road warriers, running many miles each week. With a less-driven BC, that should be a very, very good match.

[OurBoys]

How long have you had border collies? and what made you get into them?

 

JJ is our 1st bc and Jake is our 2nd. We've had JJ almost 3 yrs (Sept) and we've had Jake for a year.

 

Why? Good question. When we adopted Jake and I took him to the vet for the first time, the vet asked me why we got another bc. I told her 'lack of sense?'

 

The last dog I had was a German Shepherd mix. She died at the age of 6 1/2 yrs. from cancer. It took me 4 yrs to get over it. When I told DH I was ready to get another dog, we sat down and discussed what we wanted in a dog....intelligence, active, intelligence, enjoyed car rides. Did I mention intelligence???? DH insisted it had to come from a rescue and I insisted we had to take it to obedience class.

 

A word of caution----Research and discussions are great ways to 'learn' about bc's but nothing beats experience! DH thought I didn't know what I was talking about when I told him dogs can actually learn words. He told me no they don't. They learn sounds. It didn't take DH long to start spelling certain words.

[Carson Crazies]

(There can be only one ego that big in the house and our quota is full)

 

Too funny. My grandfather was a career Marine stationed for a good bit down at Paris Island. He had enough of that quota for his house AND ours. Thank you all so much for all you do for us.

 

What got me involved in border collies was accepting a "free Christmas Puppy" (bad, bad idea - don't try this one at home folks) that turned out to be part border collie (the other part is kinda houndish from what we can tell, and that's the part that drives me BANANAS). She was the puppy from you-know-where, but I actually learned that I liked border collies after meeting some very nice ones belonging to some members of this board. It wasn't until after she was fairly mature, and until I'd adopted my first purebred rescue border collie that I felt like I could handle a "real border collie puppy".

 

Oh yeah, I'd definately vote for a rescue dog - particularly one that has been assessed for kids and the like. It *is* nice that a rescue dog that's not a puppy is ready (physically) for all of the activities you're ready for - right out of the box.

 

Good luck to you guys!

[AV8DRVR]

Ha, a free puppy! What a present! I definitely need to know about such a major change before doing it. While I am fairly flexible when forced, I do prefer to have some prior knowledge of such changes. I think that a rescue dog about 1.5-2yrs old would be great. That way he will be ready to get into some pretty strenuous activity.

[jamesqf]

Too many people turn a blind eye to their children to hurting their dog, yet are outraged when the dog hurts a child...

 

That's just what I was going to say. I'd never recommend a puppy for a household with

kids younger than 5 or 6. Even with older kids, it'd depend on whether they're the sort

to treat the pup as just another breakable toy. Go for an older, mature dog, and take

the time to find one that matches with your family.

 

James

[juliepoudrier]

For all,

 

How long have you had border collies? and what made you get into them?

Apologies to the old-timers who've already heard this story. I got my first rescue, a border collie x Australian shepherd in 1995, I think. I wasn't necessarily looking for a border collie, but did want the drive of a herding breed (having grown up on a farm with a Belgian Tervuren who was the most amazing dog, smart as a whip and going everywhere with us kids as we rode the countryside on horseback, and I seriously considered a malinois, mainly because I didn't like the direction tervuren breeding has taken in the past couple of decades). Anyway, I actually went to the rescue to look at a bouvier, but we just didn't click. My mother who was with me, however, saw an Italian greyhound and fell in love (she already had a borzoi and an ex-racing greyhound). She wanted to go back the next day and get the IG, so I went with her. The Pet Assistance League foster said to me, "I know you didn't want a male dog, but please just let me bring this one out and show him to you." The rest is history.

 

Indy (with Willow, black tri, and Kat, red tri, in the background at home in Elizabeth City):

 

Indy was my only dog, jogging partner, and buddy for several years and then I decided to move to NC. As Indy had always had my neighbors' dogs to play with, I decided it was time to get him a buddy. I really, really liked Indy's border collie attributes, and decided a rescue border collie would suit me fine, as I really just needed a jogging (Indy had a bad habit of randomly cutting in front of me and knocking me down as we were jogging)/sports partner. That's how I found Willow, or she found me. Not long after I moved to NC, my vet had a hard luck case whose owner had died, and his widow just couldn't care properly for him. He already had some serious OCD issues, including self mutilation, and I decided to take him on. That makes dog three. I also got his papers and discovered that he was out of well-known local herding lines, though likely backyard bred himself. Then one of the rescue people I got Willow from suggested I try Farleigh (the new dog) and Willow on stock, as there was someone I could work with a little over an hour from me in Elizabeth City. And that was the beginning of the end.

 

I eventually moved to E. City and lived there for three years with a housemate whom Indy *loved.* (Indy was definitely a man's dog, though the poor thing was stuck with me--before I left Fredericksburg, VA, his bestest buddy was my next-door neighbor Joe). When I took a job in Durham, my housemate begged me to let him keep Indy. It was a difficult thing to do, but I recognized that Indy loved Jake, and Jake treated Indy as a lap dog, spoiling him shamelessly. I still keep up with him, but he's living the life of Reilly, bonded with his male buds.... He's now 14.

 

Since then I have (obviously) gathered more dogs (one more rescue) and have leapt off into raising sheep. Not everyone follows that path mind you, but watch out because you never know!

 

In my sig photo are (l-r, top to bottom) Boy (a rescue of sorts, bred for work but taken from a crappy situation at age 5, now 12), Farleigh (will be 9 in December), Jill (given to me when Twist was still a pup as a retired open trial dog so I could learn from her, now 11), Twist (the first pup I raised, now 5 1/2), Kat (bought as an adult trained dog, now 7), Pip (Twist pup), Lark (an oops! but well-bred nonetheless), Phoebe (Twist pup), and Willow (age 10). The Twist pups were a year old on July 14, and Lark is 1 1/2.

 

J.

[IronHorse]

How long have you had border collies? and what made you get into them?

I've had Border Collies for about 20 years.

Reason I got into them,,,well I needed a dog that was smart enough to learn to go fetch me a beer and close the cooler when he got it plus fast enough to get it back to me COLD if i happen to be on the far end of the farm,,

 

Now I have 3

1 to fetch my beer,,,1 to remind me what it was I was suppose to be doing and the 3th one to herd me home when the cooler needs refilling.

 

Actually I fell in love with the breed 20 or so years back when I was visiting an aunt in Montana who used BCs to work her flock of sheep.

Talk about dominating air space,,,,nothing does it better then a Border Collie.

[Pippin's person]

FWIW--One of the best placements we did with a dog we fostered was with a family with four young children (the youngest was 3, I think, and the oldest maybe 11). This was a very skittish dog in general, but loving, and ready to learn (she was about a year old at the time). She's really blossomed with them--the parents had a really healthy attitude about dogs and kids living together. Another young dog we placed just got a new baby human in the family and she's done great with the baby (as did their other rescue BC--an older male).

 

Our own rescue would be horrible in a family with children. She really needed to have a rescue organization looking out for her placement and so far it seems like it's been a pretty good match.

 

I'm glad you're thinking seriously about going through a rescue organization--they really can do a lot to make the right match for you. You miss out on the fuzzy puppy stage and that's hard sometimes, but the pay-off really is worth it. The adoption process can be involved, but it's really worth it, too, because the more information the rescue gets about you, the better they can match you with an appropriate dog. Some rescues don't adopt to families with children under 10, so just check that the rescue you want to work with isn't one of those. With all the NC folks here helping you out, I'm sure you won't have any trouble.

 

We've only had a border collie for 3.5 years--but, we gathered 5 of them in that time. (I wouldn't necessarily recommend such a path, but I also wouldn't trade having done it this way). We got the first one to play flyball, which she wouldn't. Then we got the rescue who brought us to working sheep. Once we started that, we added three more youngsters fairly quickly (and two of them somewhat unexpectedly) and just started sheep trialing with the two nearly 2-year olds. The 10-month old is a slow maturer, but he's finally started working with his tail down (a sign that he has a good attitude toward working). It's funny, he also just seems to have learned how to "read" this week and is finally sniffing at the messages other dogs leave on their daily walks. We're saving our pennies to move out of the city and have our own flock at some point in the near-ish future.

 

If you'd told me 5 years ago that this would be the turn my life would take, I would have laughed out loud--but of course, now I can't imagine it any other way. Like Julie said, not everyone follows the path that she did (and others have), but once you've seen it, it can be hard to stay off....