Guest LJS1993 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 As you well know I have been mulling over the prospect of getting a male BC. While looking around I have found a breeder nearby and decided to check out their website. It was cool, but something started getting on my nerves. They kept talking about "show quality" and continued showing pictures with comments underneath stating, "look, perfect markings". Those comments kind of upset me considering I bought Freckles for relatively cheap from working farm people who didn't even have a fancy website. "Get what you pay for"? Kind of lame if you ask me. Anyone else feel this way? Or do you really "get what you pay for?" Oh and a sidenote. I really want a purebread BC, but at the same time do want to save a life at the local shelter. So I am weighing out both prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Oh and a sidenote. I really want a purebread BC, but at the same time do want to save a life at the local shelter. So I am weighing out both prospects. How about saving the life of a purebred border collie via a reputable rescue organization? Border Collie Rescue of California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 How about saving the life of a purebred border collie via a reputable rescue organization?Border Collie Rescue of California Yes, I really want to go that route. Thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon M Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 yeah, I plan to get my next dog through BC rescue. For one thing I dont want a little puppy really. I want 4+month old pup. There are a lot of dogs that age range available around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 yeah, I plan to get my next dog through BC rescue. For one thing I dont want a little puppy really. I want 4+month old pup. There are a lot of dogs that age range available around here. Yes that is pretty much the age I am looking for also. Border Collie's aren't real big out here from what I have seen. Plenty of mixes, however I really want another pure BC. Who knows though, one mix may catch my eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devi Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 I doubt that it's true that you get what you pay for. I think most of the really good breeders of high quality, real working Border collies don't even advertise or have a website. They don't need to advertise. They have very long wait lists for their puppies. And those breeders rarely charge very much at all. They are NOT breeding for money. But SURELY you can find a fantastic purebred Border collie in any shelter, if you wait long enough. Not to mention Petfinder, a rescue, or shelters an hour or two away... My incredible shelter dog, #375 at the Harris County Animal Control in February 2005: Now: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 I doubt that it's true that you get what you pay for. I think most of the really good breeders of high quality, real working Border collies don't even advertise or have a website. They don't need to advertise. They have very long wait lists for their puppies. And those breeders rarely charge very much at all. They are NOT breeding for money. But SURELY you can find a fantastic purebred Border collie in any shelter, if you wait long enough. Not to mention Petfinder, a rescue, or shelters an hour or two away... My incredible shelter dog, #375 at the Harris County Animal Control in February 2005: Now: You have a very beautiful dog there. I think if I'm patient I'll find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 I know "breeders" who charge $1500 for a puppy when I know for a fact I can get the exact same bloodlines from a much more responsible person for $400 to $600. I also know "breeders" who sell "working" bred BCs for $1000. What do you get for $1000? Well, the pup is clicker trained to sit, down, come and do some other stuff, but the parents are often as young as 12 months old and are lucky if they are even started on stock. Sorry, no fancy breeders for me. I'll take a farm dog that was born in a shed over one produced to satisfy uneducated buyers looking for flashy web pages and breeders who are more like salespeople. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Not sure why you would even stay on the site if they discuss the "perfect markings" and "show quality"? Bizarre Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LJS1993 Posted July 22, 2007 Report Share Posted July 22, 2007 Not sure why you would even stay on the site if they discuss the "perfect markings" and "show quality"? Bizarre Sara Why did I stay on the site? To educate myself and see what that breeder was claiming. Like anything else you are looking to purchase, you need to be well informed and educated. If I didn't stay on the website and check things out for myself I never would have realized the philosophy of that breeder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silhouettestable Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 I was in kind of the same dilemma. I wanted to get a BC, would like to rescue but really wanted a puppy (preferably purebred). I really lucked out because just about the time I was considering options and checking around I found an ad for a rescue that had a BC that had been surrendered pregnant. The lady who runs the rescue knew the bloodlines of the mom and she was able to meet the dad too. I didn't think it was very likely that I'd find a purebred, young puppy in rescue, but I found 2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 LJS1993: Hey, neighbor! I have worked with the SoCal BC rescue folks for many years. I know they always have a (rather large) number of (purebred) dogs of all ages and energy levels. They can sometimes take a while to get back to you, though. If that's the case, pm me, and I'll see what I can do. Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Oh, and well-planned, serious working bred pups (from proven parents) are going for the $400-600 range here in Ca. these days. And those who breed them generally will sell them only to those they are sure will give them stockwork to do (most are sold before the breeding is ever done). Interesting the price differences, eh? Anna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Yes you do get what you pay for when it comes to pups.... If you pay for a slick website with pretty pictures... If you pay for meaningless titles and ribbons... If you pay for color, for markings, and for the "name" earned by those titles and ribbons... You get nothing. If you pay for the experience earned in years of working with stockdogs... If you pay for the results of breeding the best to the best.... If you pay for hard earned awards from high caliber sheepdog events and ranch/farm chores well done.... You might just get something. If you want guaranteed something in your pup, put it back in the whelping pen and go get an adult dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 When I was looking for Kamali, first I searched through all the local pounds for about a month and found no border collies. Finally I had a dream I got one from the paper. Looked in the paper, all were 400- 600 dollars. I started calling around and none, zero, were from working parents. they all said, they have working bloodlines.... I went back to looking in the pounds. One day, frustrated, I said out loud, "God, why cant I find a border collie? " At that moment I looked down and saw the word border collie. I thought I was trippin so I picked up the paper, which was lining the box of some kitties my hubby brought home from a house that was being torn down. (we found homes all but one which we are keeping) the ad was in the livestock section, said working parents,ABCA registered, $125. I called, wondering why they were so cheap. She said she had a huge litter of 12 and lived far out in the country and was afraid she wouldnt find homes for them. I drove 2 hours WAY out there in the stix expecting the worst and lecturing myself that I wouldnt buy one if I saw ANYTHING less than perfect. I was so surprised to find that everything was perfect. Her log home was lovely, her farm was lovely, her BC's (four of them) were AWESOME, & sweethearts. She had goats & horses. The very large pen where Kamali was kept with siblings was spotless, and ALL the puppies were happy, sociable, bubbly. She said it was her female's fourth and final litter, and I believed her. I got a really good feeling from the family, her son was a vet tech, in school to be a vet. She asked me good questions and answered all mine to my satisfaction. I think "get what you pay for" can be total BS. the true test is who bred them and why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tip Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 just wanted to add I thought it was cool that the breeder made a note of pointing out which pups would be good workers so that I could pick one that would be better for a pet/agility stuff instead. also, Devi, that BC is gorgeous!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 If you pay for a slick website with pretty pictures... Hmmm ... how about a website with pictures like this? (Click on it to enlarge it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 I was in kind of the same dilemma. I wanted to get a BC, would like to rescue but really wanted a puppy (preferably purebred). (snip) I didn't think it was very likely that I'd find a purebred, young puppy in rescue, but I found 2! There are oodles of them. I am always surprised to hear people think it's rare. In the last 10 months I have rehomed something like 20 purebred pups under the age of 3 months. I had two entire litters surrendered. There have been probably double that number in PNW rescue in the same time frame. Lots and lots of puppies out there in rescue. Sadly. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 Hmmm ... how about a website with pictures like this? (Click on it to enlarge it.) Point here? Or is this just a "me too"....nothing pretty about the pic, though it would depend on the kennel if I saw this in person. I've seen pups make that much mess in 20 minutes. Actually I've seen 1 pup do that in 20 minutes...to a 6x20 run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 just wanted to add I thought it was cool that the breeder made a note of pointing out which pups would be good workers so that I could pick one that would be better for a pet/agility stuff instead. Cool...er no, more like a complete lie, or perhaps more kindly a "hopeful guess". Nobody, not even breders with past history of multiple sheepdogs/trials/years of farming and successful breeding, can tell you what a puppy is going to good for at that age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WoobiesMom Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 I'll just add that, as a web designer, sometimes that "slick website" was donated by someone who wanted to help out, get experience, or did it for free. Heck, these days, there are middle schoolers who could code my pants off! The "proper" way to get a purebred BC may be different, and I don't recall you indicating you had cattle, sheep, etc to work, but I could have missed something. I got my purebred AKC pet quality Airedale from a breeder in NC with a nice website. I was referred to them by another breeder with a lovely website who we were waiting on pups from, but unfortunately, the bitch miscarried. I did alot of research to see who the breeders were who were also involved in rescue (we tried that route first, but that dog didn't work with a family, he was a one person guy) AND breeding. I think that is one way to determine if someone is really dedicated to the breed. Each of these breeders had top dogs in the country, were well respected, more than happy to let me physically see every square inch of their facility, provided papers, hip certifications and took my dog back and kept him for 6 months when he could not accompany us to Australia. They also screened us heavily, made sure to quiz us on what we knew of the breed, asked us "what if" questions, and the one closest to us came to see our home and then vouched for it to the 2nd breeder. I think alot can be determined by how willing the breeder seems to be open with you about their history, facilities, experience, etc. and how willing they are to let you have one of their animals. If all they require is that you write a check (or worse yet, prefer cash), don't make you sign a contract (ours was quite lengthy, including a requirement to neuter and return him to them if anything didn't work) and don't attempt to see your home, I'd be worried. If they work with a rescue group, they can usually contact someone close to you to do a home inspection if they are far away. It's that work they do before making the sale that is a huge indicator of their quality IMHO, not just their advertising practices. A website may not be the best way to determine the quality of a breeder, but it can start you in the right direction, you can google the competitions they claim to have won, cross check for rescue involvement, etc. Unless, of course, you're looking for a dog that's only working a farm and has never been to a trial, etc. Then, I guess HERE would be the best place for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 I know exactly what I'd be looking for and there's no way I could find information on any Border Collie pup I'd want to buy today, even as a pet, on the web. Period. No competitions, no websites, no ads for planned breedings. The BEST information you will get in the Border Collie world is by word of mouth. Not to say any internet available breeder is de facto bad, but even trying to make that your starting place would be dramatically limiting yourself. If you want a companion dog, not necessarily a working dog, the best place to find contacts is through rescue. If you offer your services to do transport, short term fostering, or whatever, you'll not only have the insider's advantage when a dog comes through that particularly suits you, but you'll also learn plenty about the local Border Collie scene at large. For any type of dog you want, the coolest way to learn about local breeders is through getting involved in trialing. Become a fixture, and someone will eventually put you to work. Shared work leads to friendships, friendships lead to further opportunities, and eventually the dog you want will happen to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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