SAR versue herding, and now agility!

[Lenajo]

All amusement about trolls aside, I am training my pup in both SAR and herding. I haven't found any conflict, even with a 9 month old puppy. I don't openly challange her by asking her to track through sheep, but I am establishing clear commands about what is happening when. If we go into a pasture and I ask her to look for sheep, she snaps right to it. If I show her a scent article and say "find it", tshe then hen settled in to use her nose she is right on the track.

 

Anyway, where I am hitting a mental wall is how to explain the difference to her between Agility (which is fast as you can, a game) and SAR agility obstacles like shown on another topic (which I want her to take slowly and safely above all).

 

Anybody got any ideas? SAR handlers? I am not with a formal group yet, but I am training with a retired FEMA handler privately.

 

side note, I think there are limitless possibilites to the mind of a well bred working BC. It never ceaseW to amaze me.....

[Maralynn]

I think I'd to train for SAR on a different type of obstacles that the agility equipment. I think I'd try to set up something closer to what she'd actually be working on in SAR pallets, cement blocks, barrels, etc, and teach her how to move slowly through/over those. It will be closer to the conditions that you'd be working in during an actual search as well. I'm doing SAR and not agility, but when I'm doing direct, my dog likes to move as fast as he can to get his reward. But when I send him up on the pallet pile in the back yard he has to slow down to climb it and pick his way through if he's going to get up on it.

 

I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, what does the retired handler that you're training with think of doing both SAR and herding? I asked that question to a few people and got varied responses from "don't even think about it" to "it's possible, but proceed with caution" (which was more what I was thinking). I've have sheep (and another dog who handles the chores) but have only done herding work with my young dog maybe once a month since I decided to train him for SAR about 6 months ago. I'd like to eventually be able to use him for light farm chores, but am holding off on most of that until I have a solid foundation for search work.

[INU]

I don't think it matters which equipment you use (unless you are taking TF tests) but I'd work him slow and methodically and not worry about speed. I used to be in agility class but I didn't like it so I quit. I use regular agility equipment, SAR equipment and just bunch of obsticles (pallettes, bars, benches, steps etc) to teach her to be aware of her steps and to be more confident on different surfaces.

 

Edit:

 

Are you paying the retired handler? Just curious...

[SAR-BC19]

Whatever training you decide to work with, just remember regular agility is way diffrent then

SAR or disaster training obstacles.

If u do decide to do SAR obstacle training take ur time and traine with small obstacles and progress

to higher and more harder obstacles.

 

SAR Obstacle training can be easy but there are many dangers because

of debris piles or the heighth of diffrent obstacles, some obstacles can be

so high that a saftey net is needed just for training.

 

If u need any more info feel free to send a PM.

 

And good luck with whatever training u pick to do with

your BC.

 

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

An aside since we are getting some traffic on this topic (sorry Lenajo - I'll make it quick) - I'd like to do an interview with an SAR handler who uses or trains Border Collies for that work, for the next US Border Collie Club newsletter. If you'd be interested in helping me out, please contact me privately - thanks!

 

We now return you, etc, etc . . . .

[Zoe]

Are you doing your training on the same obstacles in the same place ? I think that might be confusing to both you and your dog. If you went to agility class and did agility training and than trained in a different setting with your SAR trainer, I don't think that would be such a problem. What do your trainers say ? I am suprised you are able to do all 3. If I could do SAR I think that would be all I would do as I think it really is a full time job - unless I were in similar situation to Maralynn where I had chores to do at home.

[Lenajo]

The SAR is a new interest for me, brought on by my excitement over my new addiction to tracking. I've been herding (training, instructing, trialing, farming) for years and the dogs work at home on the farm as well. Agility we haven't been doing quite as long, but it's fun and I enjoy it. I have a full agility course at home to practice on, and as we start with the SAR group I'm sure I'll be set up some of that. All my concerns are about teaching *basics* - where life takes us after she's more mature we'll see. It may be that I have to select one avenue based on time contraints.

 

I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, what does the retired handler that you're training with think of doing both SAR and herding?

 

She has no problem with it, nor does the big hat/old hat that I'm working my dogs on sheep with. Both of them think we vastly underestimate what a dog can be taught to do.

 

Our tracking class with the handler above covered ground trailing (towards those who wanted to compete), air-scenting (if the dog offered it) and laying practice tracks. One of the other dogs in the class is a really good air scenter (a BC mix ) and they are headed towards SAR in that part of the state. I'm from further south, and am setting up the particulars to join the training with a more local group.

 

What my instructor wasn't keen on, was starting our girl on cadaever work too early. She thought she was too young and might be turned off. She would prefer we concentrate on live find for now. She also needs to start getting used to the boat for water work.

 

So...how about a "steady" command when the obstacles are less than sturdy? Bad idea?

 

anyhows....We had a fantastic weekend. She worked sheep in the afternoons, and Saturday morning we did 1 300 yard, aged, track of a person she had never trailed. Then we did a 200 yard, in which she hit the "find" at about 150 yard, switched to airscent, and dragged me to the target. Fantastic!

[INU]

Our tracking class with the handler above covered ground trailing (towards those who wanted to compete), air-scenting (if the dog offered it) and laying practice tracks. One of the other dogs in the class is a really good air scenter (a BC mix ) and they are headed towards SAR in that part of the state. I'm from further south, and am setting up the particulars to join the training with a more local group.

 

What my instructor wasn't keen on, was starting our girl on cadaever work too early. She thought she was too young and might be turned off. She would prefer we concentrate on live find for now. She also needs to start getting used to the boat for water work.

 

So...how about a "steady" command when the obstacles are less than sturdy? Bad idea?

 

anyhows....We had a fantastic weekend. She worked sheep in the afternoons, and Saturday morning we did 1 300 yard, aged, track of a person she had never trailed. Then we did a 200 yard, in which she hit the "find" at about 150 yard, switched to airscent, and dragged me to the target. Fantastic!

 

I don't think it's too early to start on Cadaver work (Don't know how old your pup is). I don't mind starting young pups on Cadaver - implinting. So, you are doing mantrailing now, but eventually want to do airscenting, Cadaver and water work with the same dog??

[Lenajo]

I don't think it's too early to start on Cadaver work (Don't know how old your pup is). I don't mind starting young pups on Cadaver - implinting. So, you are doing mantrailing now, but eventually want to do airscenting, Cadaver and water work with the same dog??

 

9 months.

 

It would be difficult to say what she is going to as an adult. Most dogs in the SAR group in this region do "closure" work (what used to be called HRD) and water work. Several of the same dogs also do airscent and/or trailing.

 

The retired handler I mentioned did live find and water work with dog. Her dog hated non-water cadaver work and regarded it as a dirty trick It was based on her experience, and other teams she worked with, that she encouraged me to use caution in exposing my pup to cadaver work lest she be put of searching entirely while she is in her formative months.

[Journey]

What my instructor wasn't keen on, was starting our girl on cadaever work too early. She thought she was too young and might be turned off. She would prefer we concentrate on live find for now. She also needs to start getting used to the boat for water work.

 

I'll second that! I had one that I was interested in getting into SAR with. The boat work was a walk in the park for him, however, it was thought that his personality and make up was not going to do well for him to be a cadaver dog. Instead of taking the chance crushing him we passed on cadaver work. There used to be a group a couple of hours south of me, haven't talked to them in a long time...

 

Karen

[INU]

I'll second that! ...however, it was thought that his personality and make up was not going to do well for him to be a cadaver dog. Instead of taking the chance crushing him we passed on cadaver work.

Karen

 

I think her trainer meant not starting HR work too young. I do however agree some dogs likes one displine more than the other - like more animated subject such as a live victim over a small bag of HR scent.

I think bottom line it comes down to how bad the dog wants his reward and willing to work for it - for whatever that he is searching for... person, HR, bomb, article, termintes or a blood stain.

[Maralynn]

She has no problem with it, nor does the big hat/old hat ;0 that I'm working my dogs on sheep with. Both of them think we vastly underestimate what a dog can be taught to do.

 

Thanks for the answer! That was kind of my gut feeling on the matter (watching my older dog who is happy to focus on whatever you tell her to do), but since I'm new to SAR I wasn't quite sure. I decided for now that I just want to work him just enough so he learns a solid recall off stock and that stock work can only be done when I say so. Besides that, I'll wait for a year or so and focus mainly on SAR work.

 

So...how about a "steady" command when the obstacles are less than sturdy? Bad idea?

 

I think it would work. I use a slow, drawn out "eeeasy" when I want my older dog to slow down at something, and it helps.