concerned - need help!

[pistolnbill]

tonight one of my border collies was playing fetch as usual...when i put the ball up for him to rest he started acting funny and acting like he couldnt walk using his back legs. he was dragging the upper side of his paws on the ground and acting like he couldnt control his legs. it was really scary. i called the emergency number for my vet and im taking him in the morning, but i was wondering if anyone else has ever experienced anything like this. he was walking around doing this for just a short time but then when he would run after that it was fine. i dont know what's wrong!

[Allie Oop]

Yikes! It does sound scary. Does it seem like he is in any pain? If so, is there an emergency animal hospital you can go to after hours? Is it possible he injured his spine?

[pistolnbill]

no he doesnt seem like he even notices it. that's the thing, even after he was walking weird like that, he did a lil running afterward. i have him asleep in a large pet taxi right now. i am sure it's killing him to be cooped up in there, but it's for the best, the vet said he needs to rest. said he could have ruptured a disk in his back and it could be putting pressure on his legs. :'(

[muddy bob]

This exact same thing happened to me twice this year. The dog is seven and never has it happened before. Once was when playing fetch just like your dog. The second time was just about a month ago. DH and I were doing some waterline work for a friend's cattle ranch and we had to turn off the electric fence. After a while the cattle began to test the fence but the owners had run to town so were not available to help. One of my dogs was with me so I took her to get up in their faces take a few nips and bark. We only were at it for a couple of minutes. After the cattle moved a bit I called her off and thats when it happened.

I just figured it was some sort of seizure. My brother used to have siezures and there were similarities. I ruled out heat exhaustion as it was a cold wet day. I also know she did not get a kick. My brother used to have the siezures when he got over emotional and I wondered if the excitement of the cattle could have triggered hers. She's a strange little wired up dog who doesn't normally work stock. I did not take her to the vet and she's been fine since.

I hope your dog is alright. Please let me know what you vet's opinion is.

Good Luck,

 

Muddy

[Miztiki]

My dog had the exact same problem in April after playing fetch. Butt swayed side to side, legs dragged behind him, not completely like he was paralyzed, but like he didn't have good control of them. He still wanted to play ball and didn't appear to be in any pain. It lasted about 15-20 minutes and hasn't happened since.

 

I had neck and spine x-rays done and ultimately they appeared to be normal and healthy, so I don't know what caused it. We are trying to find out.

 

I hope your dog will be ok and trust me, I know exactly how you feel. It is scary to see. Please let us know what your vet says tomorrow.

[pistolnbill]

hey all. thanks so much for your feedback. i just went and let pistol out to potty before i go to bed and he was doing just fine, like earlier right after he acted weird! i went and put him back in his normal dog run/insulated room area and he seems just fine. i am surprised to hear that this has happened to all of you guys before. it makes me feel better, but also i will be very cautious of it. i spoke with my dad about it and he said he thinks i should just watch his activity and see if he remains acting normal, so i think that's what im going to do and we'll hold back on the vet. thanks guys...and gals

[Miztiki]

If you do ever take him to the vet, would you mind posting about what they say? I'd be really interested. I hope it doesn't happen again and that he'll be fine.

[Kerrigan]

I'd like to know what you find also. One of my dogs is having similar issues. On Saturday, Bunny was out playing pretty hard with Loki and when she came back into the house she was walking like something was wrong with her hind end. I thought at first it was her back or hips. Last Thursday, she got flipped when she gripped a sheep during our lesson, so thought she pulled something and was sore. She wasn't in any pain when I palpated her and did some range of motion exercises. She cooled down and then seemed fine after that. She had never done that before. Tonight at our lesson, she worked no more or harder than usual but when we came out of the arena she was moving strange in the back end - definitely wobbly. My trainer got the vet that lives there to come take a look at her. Her heart rate was 120 but she had an extremely weak femoral pulse. We cooled her off with the hose gave her some Rebound and a chicken strip, but her femoral pulse remained weak. She was moving better after that and seemed totally recovered when I got home. She has never done this after being worked before or any other time before last Saturday. The vet recommended that I have my own vet do a full blood panel, an EKG, and a chest x-ray. She also said it could be a few different things - cardiac, a virus, or something else. I'm taking her in tomorrow. The only things that have changed with her recently is that she just came into heat and that I had given her Heartguard for the first time about 2 weeks ago - have always used Interceptor previously. I don't think that has anything to do with it though.

[Bill Fosher]

This sounds like exertional hyperthermia to me -- exercise induced overheating. I'm surprised none of your vets have discussed this with you. These are the classic symptoms.

 

While the dog will usually recover from overheating, it's not a matter to be taken lightly because in some cases each incident makes the dog more susceptible to future cases, and severe cases can be fatal.

[Miztiki]

Thanks so much for pointing that out Bill. My vets have not mentioned anything like this but it certainly sounds like that could be it.

 

If anyone finds a good website about it then please share.

 

Jeanne, please let us know what your vet says about Bunny.

[muddy bob]

How long does it take generally, for a dog to recover from exertional hyperthermia? Our episode seemed to last a minute or so. Her pupils did not look right either. She was confused afterward--she barked at someone she knew well. She never does this. But physically she seemed fine within a few seconds.

Perhaps it is not the same thing.

 

muddy

[Dana Nichols]

I think Bill nailed it. Incidently, there is a disorder that has been identified in labradors that is somewhat similar, but a bit more intense.

 

http://working-retriever.com/library/staylor.html

 

Dana

[Pipedream Farm]

Here is a link to a disorder in Labs currently under study:

 

EXERCISE INDUCED COLLAPSE IN LABRADOR RETRIEVERS

 

Mark

[MrSnappy]

Originally posted by Bill Fosher:

This sounds like exertional hyperthermia to me -- exercise induced overheating. I'm surprised none of your vets have discussed this with you. These are the classic symptoms.

Some people refer to it as "blowing up the dog." I am surprised no vet has mentioned it either. Piper got heatstroke when she was a pup and these were future symptons I was instructed to watch for by my vet.

 

RDM

[Miztiki]

Both of those links appear to be the same but it sure seems to fit and I will let my vet know about it.

 

It mentions that it usually happens in physically fit, active Labs but it also says, "Dogs that exhibit the symptoms of EIC are most likely to have intense, excitable personalities, and it is apparent that their level of excitement plays a role in inducing the collapse."

 

Boyden does not have that sort of personality BUT, if you recall, his behavior changed about a week before this happened to him. He was anxious about things and he suddenly became ball obsessed too. He never cared about balls before but he all of a sudden was obsessed with them, including chasing after them and putting them in a pile that he became protective over.

 

I still have a couple dozen balls that I whack with a tennis racket and he's back to not caring about them. Fynne is the one who runs after them.

[Pipedream Farm]

Just wanted to point out that if your dog suffers from something like exercise induced collapse, it doesn't have to be hot outside for it to occur. Obviously, heat and humidity can make things worse, but it can occur without it. Try to monitor your dog's activity level and make it take breaks when working or playing hard with it.

Renee

[juliepoudrier]

Thanks for your post Bill. As I was reading through the thread I was wondering why no one had thought of heat exhaustion. The quickest way to help your dog recover from heat exhaustion is to put them in a tub of water and hose them off (rapid cooling).

 

I have always heard that once a dog gets overheated to this point then they are more susceptible in the future. When this happened to Willow six or so years ago, she did seem to have difficulty in the heat for a short time after that but has not had another episode since.

 

By the way, when it happened to Willow it was a pleasant spring day with temps not above the low 70s (THAT IS, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE VERY HOT/HUMID FOR THIS TO HAPPEN). We were playing frisbee and I gave her plenty of breaks in the shade. It wasn't till we had stopped and were walking home that she got wobbly in the back end. I flagged down a passing farmer who gave us a lift home (about a mile) and I immediately put her in the kiddy pool and started hosing her off while I called the vet. By the time I got to the vet she seemed normal. But on walks for a while after that she seemed to be much less tolerant of the heat and humidity.

 

I never again had a problem with her, but of course I was also more careful.

 

Edited to add: Bill, can you post the link to the excellent article you wrote some time ago on how to tell if a dog is overheating? I know it's been posted here before, but it wouldn't hurt to post it again!

 

J.

[2 Devils]

I had a bc/mix that had heat intolerance issues. She could overheat quickly on a nice fall/spring day while playing ball/frisbee.

 

She did become more susceptible after the first episode but then again she was the one with lots of issues so who knows.

[Bill Fosher]

Hi Julie,

 

I think that article might have been lost in a series of switch of web hosting providers and computer crashes.

 

I made a quick search for it this morning and didn't find it on our server. For some reason it never ocurred to me to look for the text on my computer.

[KrisK]

Thanks for posting this information! Jazz, has a 'self-cooling' switch. He will stop playing, and jump into the baby pool on his own. Cricket, however, does not. And since she has had hip surgery, sometimes her gait is a bit off anyway. I will now watch her more carefully just to be sure it's not heat collapse!

[Dixie_Girl]

When I play frizbee or ball with Jackson outside, after a while, instead of circling me and putting it down, he will run up the steps and go in the doggie door. (to a/c!) Then after a little bit, he will drop the frizbee/ball out the door while he stays inside! I always take this as he is getting to hot, so, after a few more tosses we go in. Sometimes, I will hose him down if he is panting a lot before we go in. I figure the water and the a/c will cool him down quicker.

[juliepoudrier]

Dang Bill, well you better get to rewriting it! I had it saved too, but similarly have since had computer crashes, computer changes, etc., and can no longer find it. Maybe a plea on sheepdog-L would find someone who still has it.

 

J.

[Kerrigan]

Last night Bunny was examined by the vet who lives at my herding instructor's facility. She has a working Kelpie that she trials (very cool dog BTW) and sees a lot of herding dogs. I had asked about heat exhaustion and she said she didn't think that was it due to the femoral pulse being very weak even after cooling off with water. She had worked just the one time last night and it was about 78 degrees. I think she said her heart rate was 120, but since she was still panting she couldn't really get a good listen to her heart for a murmur. She was more concerned with it being a possible cardiac problem. It took Bunny probably 15-20 minutes to recover where she was moving normally again. My regular vet will be seeing Bunny at this morning. Bunny just turned 6 yrs old in April and is very fit. Is it common for the exertional hyperthermia to show up this late in the dog's life? I'll certainly ask my regular vet about it. I'll let you know what I find out.

[Dana Nichols]

I've been around a couple of labs that we believed had EIC. It was much different from the normal heat exhaustion. These dogs were super fit, super high energy field dogs. Not really even the average field dog, but dogs that were competing on a really high level. They trained an amazing amount. Some days they were fine. On other days you'd do something relatively mild with them (like throw one bumper) and they would totally collapse. Most of the ones I've known had to be retired from field.

 

I think in the cases you guys have described, it is far more likely to be heat intolerance or just getting back into shape after the winter. It's probably a good idea to carefully monitor those dogs during exercise and quit well before they start to show any signs of fatigue.

 

Dana

[2 Devils]

I think I have the article saved at home. If so, I will post this evening.