Ewe down

[Shoofly]

Hey - Got a different sort of sheep problem and looking for any ideas. I thought i'd run across most stuff by now but i guess not since this one has me stumped.

 

I got to the farm today about 3:30 and noticed one of my ewes was lagging a bit behind the others. Also noticed she seems to look *really* pregnant all of a sudden, but we're 3 weeks from lambing so that's not so weird. Anyway, she was just a little slow coming in, not enough to cause more than a stray thought of "hmmm". I put all the ewes away to train dogs on other sheep and when i let them out about 4 hours later, this ewe wasn't with the others who were running to the feed troughs. She did get up and was trying to get out and not be left behind but she was not well at all, not wanting/able to move along. So i got her into a small lighted area so i could check her. She wasn't willing to walk, i pretty much had to tug her along every step, once i was able to get her up that is. Okay, you get the picture, she felt like doo doo, could walk but didn't want to. Legs were functional not weak. When she went to lay down, a bunch of watery fluid (not snot or mucous) came out of her nose, and she's wheezing and raspy and having some trouble breathing. Gums and eyelids looked fine, not anemic. This is a healthy, well nourished sheep, or has been.

 

I didn't see that anyone else in the flock was feeling off. I did notice that this ewe looked much larger all of sudden but i can't see bloat. I mean my pasture is really pitiful, no grass at all and certainly nothing lush. I did have fertilizer spread earlier this week but it seems pretty thinly spread so i don't see her having ingested much of it. She's definitely having trouble breathing, raspy at every breath. I didn't take a temp but i'll get one in the morning.

 

I didn't really know what to do so i popped some LA200 into her, and i'll call my vet in the morning to see if she can suggest a better antibiotic or has some ideas. But i thought i'd see if anyone here has any thoughts.

 

Of course this is the night before i'm supposed to leave to help put on a trial this weekend. Sigh.

[Howdyjabo]

I'd run a tube down her-- sounds like bloat

I would also hit her with some IV cal/mag

[Bill Fosher]

Hi Robin,

 

In a ewe that close to lambing, I would consider the following possibilities:

 

1.) Hypocalcemia, also known as milk fever.

2.) Pregnancy toxemia, or twin lamb disease.

 

The fact that pasture was recently fertilized might point to hypomagnesemia, but that is usually associated with the uptake of vegetation.

 

Nitrate poisoning? If she was a little starved for salt and discovered that the fertilizer pellets were a little salty, she might have picked them up and snarfed them.

 

I'm not sure how the watery nasal discharge fits with any of these possibilities, but you could always be looking at secondary pnuemonia.

[Shoofly]

Hey Bill - From what i'm reading and seeing, it really doesn't sound like 1 or 2. I'm wondering about the hypomagnesemia though. It seems awfully coincidental that i just fertilized and my pasture is so dry, to have this ewe down. Somewhere, way back in my brain, i have a vague recollection of maybe seeing something similar after fertilizing, and maybe pushing calcium and magnesium into a ewe, but it's been so long and i was so green that i can't really remember it. What would be the treatment for hypomagnesemia? I don't really know how to do an IV.

 

I doubt the ewe was craving salt. I keep a salt block out and also loose minerals in a feeder, and also had a SheepLyx tub out. I did notice the Sheeplyx tub got empty awfully suddenly though i wouldn't think that was anything. They'd finished off another before so it wasn't a new thing to be eating on.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

It really sounds lot like hypomag with possibly secondary ketosis and pneumonia. You can get all three at once in the spring on older ewes, pretty easy.

 

If the ewe is still walking around you can get a tube of cal/mag (treats all possibilities) and give her about half of it. Treat again in 12 hours, then again for another day or so.

 

For the ketosis give her either 4 oz of Nutra-drench (my personal fav) or some people use propylene glycol. Prop. g. is cheaper but not as nourishing so you have to keep it up 4 times a day until lambing. You can get away with less of the Nutra Drench I've found and many times they will start eating (it's got B vitamins in it which help with the nausea). Offer clean but stemmy hay until she starts nibbling, then upgrade the hay and start offering concentrated feed. If you can get her on concentrated feed again you can stop the energy supplement. Not until then though!

 

If she's not up, I THINK you can do sub-q on the cal-mag supplement and I know you can do it on glucose because I've done it. No more than 50 mls per site, but you want to get 120 mls in of the glucose. You can probably google for the sub-q information on the mag supplement, unless you are lucky enough to know a livestock vet that will give advice on sheep.

 

Oh, you can tell the difference in what she might have this way:

 

Hypomagnesia - almost always the ears will be ice cold.

Ketosis: breath and urine will smell like nail polish remover (acetone)

Bloat: a) she'll be dead by morning if it goes on untreated, and she'll look bigger on one side than the other. My dysphasia is getting in the way of picturing which side that is, but the times I've dealt with bloat I remember noticing pretty easily the bulging side and it's always the same side.

Pneumonia: fever, with or without slight nasal discharge.

Slat poisoning: they start swelling up pretty quick with that. Swelling is symetrical and starts with head and extremities.

 

That's a scary one - I've seen that once - I almost decided to shoot the ewe because she was so obviously gonna die. She had cowped herself and then somehow that brought on the salt poisoning - possibly she had filled up at the mineral feeder and cowped on the way to the water. Anyway, we turned her over and she crawled to the water while we were debating what to do, stuck her big swollen head in the bucket and sucked it dry. I gave her some NutriDrench (my panacea for all sheepie ills) and she was fine within six hours.

 

That was Friendly, the Sheep That Refuses To Die. She's also the reason I have experience with hypomagnesia. She was also the only survivor of those in my flock affected in the Great Blackleg Outbreak of 2003. If she ever keels over from old age (she's now 13) I swear I'm going to throw a funeral for her and invite all my friends who knew her.

[Joan]

Originally posted by Shoofly:

Hey Bill - From what i'm reading and seeing, it really doesn't sound like 1 or 2. I'm wondering about the hypomagnesemia though. It seems awfully coincidental that i just fertilized and my pasture is so dry, to have this ewe down. Somewhere, way back in my brain, i have a vague recollection of maybe seeing something similar after fertilizing, and maybe pushing calcium and magnesium into a ewe, but it's been so long and i was so green that i can't really remember it.

Robin, for what it's worth, I remember something like this, too.

[Bill Fosher]

Hypomagnesemia is also known as "grass tetany" or "ryegrass staggers." My understanding is that it doesn't come from ingestion of the fertilizer per se, but from rapidly growing grass caused by recent fertilization. That's why I wondered about nitrate poisoning from ingestion of fertilizer.

 

But then, when you say "no grass" I picture a sandlot, and that may not be what you mean.

 

Actually, I can show you what "no grass" means. It means a cover of four to six inches of snow and ice that will be with us for at least another few weeks, and then another few weeks after that before things start to green up.

[kajarrel]

If she's not up, I THINK you can do sub-q on the cal-mag supplement and I know you can do it on glucose because I've done it.

On the recommendation of my vet, I've used MFO subcutaneously. The key is, if it's really hypomagnesia, they can die within a couple hours of onset or recognition of symptoms so it's important to do this immediately. If it's not hypomagnesia, it's also unlikely to hurt.

 

Both my neighbor and I had problems with ewes (1 each -- me 1/80; him 1/300-400) this year but never before on hay. We're thinking maybe it had something to do with the hay this year . . .? The symptoms were identical to those described in Henderson (ice cold ears are pretty much a way of life up here ) Funny, both my ewe and Kevin's were up and active in the days prior to the incident so there wasn't really time to give an oral paste (i.e., my ewe is one that will be standing with her feet on the fence waiting to be fed in the a.m.). My ewe was in a pen where she was getting tlc (extra grain and hay). The (old) ewe I treated was up in a few hours but then delivered a lamb about a week later that died before I noticed it had arrived. So you may want to watch for imminent delivery - this lamb was obviously also not robust.

 

Kim

[Shoofly]

Just a quickie update - something seems to have helped. I popped about 100 ccs of calcium SQ, got maybe 40 ccs of magnesium/calcium gel into her, and gave her a shot of procaine G. Then went home for a couple of hours to figure out what to do with her, and made arrangements to have a necropsy because i just *knew* she was dead or gone enough to put her down. Went back and she's up and alert, walking around, nibbled a bite of grain. I'm guessing it was the calcium but who knows. I'm going to go back out and give her 60 ccs SQ of the CPMK i just picked up from the vet and hope for the best. Sure has been a weird presentation for it.

[Bill Fosher]

I'd guess the calcium did the trick too. When it works, it works right away.

[Shoofly]

Unfortunately it looks like it was just a quick bump up on her. She seems to feel better, i mean she doesn't look like she wants to die any second, but she's not eating and hasn't really eaten anything since thursday.

[Jordi44]

Try getting some Nutrical - it's a mineral/glucose solution in a pump bottle - it at least gives them a bit of a boost. She could still be on the edge of ketosis. If her breath smells sweet (think it is), that's a sign of ketones present or ketosis. Can't tell you by experience because my nose is totally worthless for smelling, but that's what I've always been told -from vets to Purdue U.

 

I had trouble with Ketosis - one or two a year - until I started using Molasses licks the month or so before lambing. I use Energylass, think it's called - but it's essentially molasses with minerals added in a lick form in a big tub. Aren't terribly expensive - I get mine from the feed mill, TSC carries some, but be careful, they tend to be "generic" and may contain copper.

 

An injection of B-vitamin will usually stimulate appetite. Ask your vet about it. And isn't it typical - no one ever has a problem until you're getting ready to go somewhere or do something that just can't wait.

[Howdyjabo]

Give her banamine- and see if that helps.

And start taking her temperature-watching for a secondary infection.

She probably got some lung damage- waiting on the cal-mag .If you can identify lung damage - giving her some anihistimine and Dexamethazone(sp) might be supportive.

Learning to IV isn't that big of a deal-and MIGHT have made the difference-

 

.I second the Nutrical type stuff and Vit-B-- it does seem to help carry animals over problems.

[kajarrel]

Don't forget that the Dex CAN induce labor, but this may be desired if you want to save the ewe . . .

 

Kim

[Howdyjabo]

opps-- you're right thanks for catching that one

[Shoofly]

Today's update -- she aborted 2 lambs last night/this morning and started eating almost immediately. I'd just started her a nutri-drench kind of stuff last night, finally found some. I'm going to give her some oxytocin to make sure she's cleaned out and keep her on antibiotics for a few days, and give her a couple more doses of the drench. I'm feeling like it was probably calcium deficiency or ketosis (or both) and i think she's going to be fine. I'll be upping my flock's grain amount and adding some alfalfa hay to the grass hay and hoping no one else has a problem as lambing gets closer.

[Shoofly]

So...another question about this ewe. She's eating pretty well as of last night and today - had been just barely nibbling on a little stuff but seems to have gotten her appetite back and has a cud to chew.

 

Now she has a funky sort of discharge. It's sort of a light brownish color and there's a pretty good amount of it, but it doesn't smell bad. She delivered dead lambs sunday night/monday morning and i gave her oxytocin to help with the afterbirth monday evening. As of tuesday morning, the afterbirth was still hanging there so i gloved up and checked to be sure there wasn't another lamb in there, and pulled the afterbirth the rest of the way out. Gave her a shot of bio-mycin for a couple of days. Today we're switching to Procaine G penicillin.

 

As of yesterday she's eating well enough to think she's going to pull through and seems bright enough. But now she seems tender on her feet and is limping on at least one foot.

 

Any ideas on the discharge and the limping?

[Denise Wall]

But now she seems tender on her feet and is limping on at least one foot.

She could be foundered. She may have been a bit too hungry when she got her appetite back and ate too much high quality food.

 

Try feeling her feet to see if they feel hot. Some banamine will help if they are. Sheep do better with founder than horses. She'll probably be alright. Just my guess from youer description.

[Shoofly]

I wonder if i could have foundered her with the "Power Punch" stuff i've been putting down her throat? It's pretty rich stuff, kind of a nutri-drench kind of thing (the only thing i could get my hands on in a hurry). I don't think she's overdone the grain, yesterday is the first day she's eaten more than a handful in a week. Her feet did feel pretty warm to me. Banamine is for pain, right? I'll see if i can pick some up from the vet. This poor sheep is going to run screaming when she sees me with another needle.

 

 

Here's the label info --

SUGGESTED USE: Goats Prefer?Power Punch? is carefully formulated to help support normal energy levels, appetite and digestion. Administer to goats when birthing, weaning, vaccinating, handling, weather changes, shipping or post antibiotic treatment.

 

INGREDIENTS: Propylene Glycol, Cane Molasses, Lactic Acid, Dextrose, DL-alpha-Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Pork Peptone, Niacinamide, Vitamin A Acetate, Methylparaben, D-Activated Animal Sterol (Vitamin D1), Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Lactobacillus acidophilus DDS-1 fermentation product, Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, L-Glutamine, Zinc Methionine, Caramel Flavor, Propylparaben, L-Lysine, L-Arginine, L-Proline, DL-Methionine, L-Tryptophan, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), d-Calcium Pantothenate, Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B12), Choline Bitartrate, Folic Acid, Riboflavin, Sodium Selenite and Ethoxyquin (a preservative).

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Do you vaccinate with Covexin-8? I've been hearing about a few cases of blackleg in sheep. In sheep it is picked up through an open wound or during the lambing process (I'm not sure why then, but it does occur). If she was weakened from the ketosis or hypocalcemia she'd be at risk for that, too, if she's not been vaccinated.

 

She'd have a fever but not a very high one. The other main symptom, besides the limping, is a sloppy black stool (not the thin greenish stool of acidosis).

[Shoofly]

Yeah, i use Cov8 and just dosed her about a month or so ago. I just did a little searching around on the net and found a couple of references to laminitis after a toxemia so i'm thinking that's what it is sinec she's shifting from foot to foot like they all hurt. I'll pick her up some banamine today.

 

Now, anyone have any ideas on the discharge? It's a light brown color, no odor but a pretty good amount considering she's 4 days post-delivery.

[Denise Wall]

Now, anyone have any ideas on the discharge? It's a light brown color, no odor but a pretty good amount considering she's 4 days post-delivery.

My guess would be she's okay given your description and treatment. No odor in discharge is always a good thing. I'm not as confident guessing about that one as the founder though.

[Shoofly]

Personally, i think it's her way of dragging this out until next week, when i'd finally actually be home and not trying to figure this out from 2 hours away and going back and forth to deal with her. :-/

 

I'm not as concerned about the discharge too. It's good that it's draining at least.

[Mike Neary]

Ewes will become tender and pseudo foundered after a retained placenta. From your description, it sounds like her placenta was retained for several days.

 

Keep giving her antibiotics and give her banamine until her feet become more normal. 1 cc per 100 lbs body weight of banamine. I like to give it every 24 to 36 hours. 24 hrs if the situation is dire, 36 hrs if it is not so bad.

 

Oh, take a rectal temperature. If it is over 103 or 103.5, she has a fever. This will help you decide how often to give banamine.

 

mneary

[Shoofly]

Hey Mike, good to see you here.

 

Here's another question that's bugging me. I hate to doubt my vet because she's been really good about listening and giving suggestions. But. I have procaine G penicillin for this ewe, 300,000 units per ml. The bottle says 1 ml/100 pounds. My vet says 5 ml/100 pounds, that the dose is different for sheep. I asked about it a second time to be sure and she said again that was the dose.