laurie etc Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 I bought my new place (5 acres) in November - still need to restore some fence before I can put sheep out on the pasture, so right now the grass is just growing back from where the neighbors' horses had grazed it to nothing (horses aren't there now). I've noticed a (healthy looking)red fox passing through a few times, and today saw it catch a baby rabbit and carry it off. I watch while the fox disappeared from sight, then when it left the pasture later I walked out to investigate. I found what I'm pretty sure is "its" den in an overgrown dirt/brush pile in the pasture. I was planning to level the pile and burn the brush on it when I thought it was a ground hog den, but now I'm reluctant. I'm guessing "it" is a "she" and has cubs down in the den. I don't mind the foxes, as long as it's healthy, and it will keep the rabbit/mouse population under control. My question is, since i'm not planning on having lambs, is there any problem with letting the den stay there? Anybody have problems with a sheltie size fox bothering adult size kathadin sheep? Thanks for input... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 I've seen fox in my pastures from time to time. The fox takes no notice of the sheep, and the sheep take no notice of the fox. Others may have had a different experience, but I've had no problem, even with lambs. Of course, my lambs are usually in the barn til they're three days old, but I think the main reason is that, unlike rabbits, lambs have a big protective mother to look out for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Laurie, A couple of years back there was a fox den just inside our neighbor's field with several cubs. We never had any problems with them or had a lamb taken. This is one reason I like seeing red fox in our area.... Culturally and ecologically significant species including red fox decline dramatically in response to increasing coyote populations. Eastern coyote and red fox share many common habitat requirements and occupy overlapping niches. Through time, the larger and more resilient coyote is able to out-compete and displace resident red fox populations. As a result, red fox are typically delegated to existence in small areas devoid of individual coyote home ranges. Diminishing red fox populations have currently been noted in portions of central and western Maryland. MD DNR: Coyotes in Maryland Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Hi Laurie, I don't have sheep - yet...sigh.... - so I can't speak to that. Foxes can carry rabies...so provided you know what the signs of rabies are and if rabies are an issue in your area I think it would be interesting to have a fox den in the area..they are very good at keeping the rodents under control and watching the fox kits? (or is it pups???) is alot of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi44 Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 I've never had problems with fox bothering sheep - but they'll take out any poultry you have running loose. I had one taking them out in broad daylight. I wouldn't encourage the foxes - even though I agree, live and let live as long as they aren't bothering anything - but they make me nervous when I see them around. My sheep don't even seem to notice them - the fox can be hunting mice/rabbits in the middle of the pasture right next to the sheep - but that isn't with young lambs - at least not that I've seen. There's a chance they do have cubs or will soon. What you can do is make it a less desirable location without really harming them. If you have a dog, take walks out in the pasture, especially in the area of the den. Just you and/or a dog's presence will likely cause them to consider moving. I had a coyote showing up in my pasture - during the middle of the day - and after my BC chased it out of the pasture and then some, I haven't seen it since. Few firecrackers or anything that makes a loud noise occasionally might help too. While they probably aren't a threat, I would be alert to possible problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie etc Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Thanks for all the insite - I like Mark's idea - hadn't considered that maybe a fox in the "territory" would keep coyotes out. I haven't seen a coyote here yet, but I am in wild wonderful West Virginia, so I'm sure they are close by or soon will be. My property backs to woods and a large apple orchard, so deer (and probably their ticks) are my biggest problem, so far. As far as rabies goes, I know what to look for, but I don't think it is bad in the fox population here - at least not currently. My dogs and I are all vaccinated for it - I used to vaccinate my horses, but never heard of people vaccinating sheep for it. Do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miztiki Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 A red fox will not keep coyotes out. What a red fox indicates is that there are no coyotes in that immediate vicinity. Red foxes and coyotes compete for the same food, and the same area cannot support them both. The coyote will drive out the red fox, not the other way around. A grey fox can co-exist with a coyote because they do not compete for the same food. I had a wild grey fox who I "trained" to come to my window every night and sit so as to get a treat from me. I really miss that little bugger! I also had two big coyotes out back, but no red foxes. Red fox link. Problems associated with foxes include depredation on domestic animals, perceptions of danger to humans (healthy foxes pose virtually no danger to humans), and their potential to carry disease organisms. Foxes will prey on small livestock such as ducks, chickens, rabbits, and young lambs, but generally do not bother larger livestock. Cats may also be preyed on. Foxes often carry their prey to a secluded area or their den where it is eaten by the adults and young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 Laurie, Sorry if my comments misled you. As Miztiki stated, "What a red fox indicates is that there are no coyotes in that immediate vicinity", is why I like seeing ones near us. But it's only an indicator. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie etc Posted April 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 ok - I still think I'll leave'em alone for the time being as long as they seem healthy. My homeowners covenants won't let me have poultry anyways, and I don't want cats in my yard (something about my dogs rolling in/eating cat poop really bothers me... :mad: ). My dogs are outside enough hours of the day patrolling the fenceline that I doubt the fox will start coming into the back yard, but if it does, maybe the "mothball trick" on the website Mitziki googled will be useful to drive it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Oak Farm Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 I've never had the red foxes on my property bother my sheep or lambs, but they did make off with 13 chickens in a single night! My fault for not shutting the door to the coop that night. At least they took them to the young in the den & didn't wontonly massacre them like the oppossums like to do. I haven't heard the foxes barking nearby since I got my Pyr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley-dog Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Originally posted by Great Oak Farm:I've never had the red foxes on my property bother my sheep or lambs, but they did make off with 13 chickens in a single night! My fault for not shutting the door to the coop that night. At least they took them to the young in the den & didn't wontonly massacre them like the oppossums like to do. I haven't heard the foxes barking nearby since I got my Pyr. Opossums eat chickens? Well I never knew that! We have a ton of those around, and 13 free range chickens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi44 Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 I've had a fox hunting mice in my pasture just a few yards from the sheep - no problems, even with lambs. I even had a lone coyote hanging around last winter through early summer until we finally convinced it to leave. While they were never a problem with the sheep, they did take out poultry - so as long as you don't have anything small like that, you shouldn't have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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