Missyann Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Just wondering what others thoughts on the AKC. Personally, I was very disheartned to find out that BC had been accepted into AKC. I hope that most of us BC lovers will keep our animals as far a way as possible. Lets keep BC'S #1. Stay away from AKC!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Welcome! I'm assuming you didn't just find out about the AKC acceptance? I think our main focus should be doing what we can to preserve the Border collie as a working dog. That means supporting only non-AKC competitive venues, becoming active in organizations that support the working dog, finding out as much as you can about the working context of the Border Collie, and obtaining dogs either from rescue or from responsible working breeders. You can find out more about several organizations that support the working Border Collie, including the US Border Collie Club, which provides this forum, at http://www.bordercollie.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prosperia Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Do an archive search in this section and look for "Its that time of year again". A good and *long* post to read about the views of the people here on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelli 1 Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 I have 3 Border Collies, one from top-notch working lines. I support USBCHA, ASCA, AKC and AHBA. My dogs are all spayed/neutered, so what's the problem with competing in all these venues? Sure not going to make any difference as far as breeding working dogs is concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Kelli, The problem is that when competing in those venues you are giving money to, and therefore supporting, an organization whose members have breeding goals that are the *complete antithesis* of the breeding goals required for maintaining the working border collie. So although you have done the right thing by neutering your dogs, you are still helping to fund an organization that does not have the best interests of the working border collie at heart--far from it, in fact. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 It does make a difference. When you compete in any particular venue, you give them your money to compete. That money supports the organization. That money, your money, stands in support of that organization's goals, values, and agendas. Therefore, if you give your money to an organization whose goal is NOT to improve the Border Collie breed by ways of breeding for working (but rather breeding for things other than working ability such as conformation), you by default are harming the working Border Collie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Hah, Julie, you beat me to it. Oops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Hey Laura, how is June doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 She's doing very nicely!! She has recovered nicely from her spay (she moped and groaned for several days) and is looking forward to seeing some woolies tomorrow (hopefully)!! I really can't wait. I probably won't sleep a wink tonight. She is a very, very neat dog and we are really enjoying her. My other two are adapting, albeit not without some effort. I expected some growing pains, however, with three females now. I'd be interested to hear how you make things smooth at your house too. I'll send you an email a tad later, too, with some more details. Thanks for asking about her. She is fitting in so very well. Oh, and she just loves my husband (which is a plus). All my dogs love my husband. What a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 That's awesome!! I have 6 female dogs in the house now and there's no real problems, so it can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 6??? You are a goddess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 yes, that's what they all think. and so should everyone else for that matter..LOL. Only 4 are mine though, but I take care of the other two most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiaBC Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 I am taking agility lessons. In the class are two AKC bc's from confirmation lines. They are bigger, thicker, fluffier, which a much more squared head than my two bc's. Other than the markings, they could be a different breed. To my amazement, they don't move like bc's either. They are slower, less agile, and much less enthusiastic for the sport. So, to answer the question, "What's wrong with the AKC?" I would have to use that as Exhibit A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missyann Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 GeorgiaBc I imagine that anyone who supports the AKC will find out the damage all to soon, overbreeding, inbreeding, linebreeding (if the inbreeding works and the dogsa aren't showing any severe signs of inbreeding) The bc's have been the best of the best dogs for as long as I can remember, and I dreaded the fact that the AKC got a hold of them. It wont be long before it is way out of hand. with overbreeding and AKC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missyann Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Kelli 1, please tread lightly with the AkC and really do some record tracking on all of the breeds they have and the problems which have arised with each breed. i.e. collies=eye problems shepherds= hips labradors= seizures pugs=breathing problems miniature pinschers= bugged out eyes and so on and so on and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 I have an AKC registered BC, and to be honest I have not found any severe flaws in his temperament or woking ability so far. (But, the true test of that will be next summer, when he and I go to work on a ranch with a flock of about 1200 sheep) But, while I am very happy with my dog, AKC or no, I don't support the breeding of Border Collies for things other than working ability. When Dakota begins trialing in a year or two, I will most likely look into registering him elsewhere, and doing herding and agility through a different organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn & Gang Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 Did everyone hear? BCSA is now wanting to permanently open the AKC stud books to the Border Collie! Like they can't do enough long lasting damage in 10 years, they need to take forever and make it permanently damaging! Kate, Dice, & Cue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 Grace - Your dog does not have to be registered (or even be a Border Collie) to run in USBCHA trials. I do not have a clue if AHBA or ASCA requires any registration papers to run in their events - you can check on their websites. As for agility (and I know very little about this), I think the non-AKC agility venues do not require any registration (registered pedigree) as they allow all dogs, including "mutts" to compete. There are folks on the boards who are knowledgeable about this but I *think* I may be right about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 Sue is correct on both accounts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Sue, thank you for the info. I've never had a potential events dog before, outside of 4-H I've never even competed in agility and I've NEVER done herding.. So I'm a complete newbie to all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Okay, I was talking to a friend about this yesterday as she was browsing these boards, and figured I would ask you guys as I do plan on getting another BC next summer. Would you avoid buying a working BC strictly because it is registered with the AKC? I have spoken to the breeder whom I am planning on getting my next Border Collie from. Her dogs work 1,000+ sheep on her ranch, and while they are bred for sound structure they are in no way bred for the show ring. I think the dogs are of excellent quality, which is why I ask you guys, does the registry matter much in a case like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Would you avoid buying a working BC strictly because it is registered with the AKC? Yes. I would. There are many excellent working-bred puppies available from breeders who do not register with AKC. If I were looking for a trained adult working dog and found one who was perfect and everything I wanted and unfortunately registered with AKC, I might consider that dog. But there is no reason whatsoever to buy an AKC-registered puppy. You can find dogs of excellent quality without supporting AKC and I would go so far as to say that by not supporting AKC, you will have a greater chance of being able to find Border Collies of excellent quality for a long, long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Would you avoid buying a working BC strictly because it is registered with the AKC?Absolutely. I would not buy a border collie registered with the AKC. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn & Gang Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 Originally posted by RD:Would you avoid buying a working BC strictly because it is registered with the AKC? I'd never buy an AKC dog. I support ABC 100%. Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 I dislike generalities but I can't imagine circumstances under which I'd be forced to take my business to a breeder who supported the AKC or even who dual registered. As Melanie pointed out, there's still plenty of folks I know who refuse to support the conformation culture in any way. I was at a trial this weekend and saw lots of really cool dogs I'd be pleased to "share a piece of the action." Check out this sweetie (the dog, not Laura!) - Wilson's Moss - the curly-coated male trying to decide between giving Laura a big slobbery kiss and playing with June (spayed): Here's what he actually decided: "How's it going, good lookin'?" I don't want any part of an organization that would cull a dog like Moss - I kept thinking of that all weekend watching him run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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