INU Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 I just sent a check and registration form for ABC for my puppy. I am not familiar with the difference between AKC and ABC and read through some of the Posts here. Could you tell me why some of you disagree with AKC? Is it just for BCs? I know some german shepherd (esp. white german sheperd owners since they consider them "fault" if they are white!) are opposed to them as well. Is it because they seem to care mostly about the appearance? or is there some political issues involved? I am not "breeding" or selling my dogs so it really doesn't matter who they are registered with but I am just curious. Anyway, I decided to send the registeration form to ABC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabreur Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 I only adopt dogs, I never buy them from breeders, so I'm not the best one to explain this, but basically, the ABC is interested in preserving the working capability of border collies--it has no breed standard based on looks (conformation) and many (not all) people in the ABC absolutely hate the idea of breeding a border collie for conformation. The AKC has the absolutely benighted (my editorial opinion) view that the way a dog looks is important, in fact the most important thing about the breed. Not only that, but they support absurd exaggerations of the breed specification, which leads to abominations like the current American style German Shepherd. IMNSHO, the AKC is also directly responsible for every puppy farm in the United States that produces pups with an AKC "pedigree." Most breeds in the US have already been bred far from anything approaching a real working dog, so the biggest complaint against the AKC for those breeds are the genetic problems resulting from breeding for conformation, and the tacit support of puppy mills. For border collies, since they haven't fallen very far from the working tree, the risk is that breeding for conformation, and the overbreeding associated with AKC puppy mills, will dilute the breed, destroying its working capability. Those of you with more direct experience, please chime in and feel free to correct me. Regards, MR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 http://www.bordercollie.org/akc.html Hi, The above link is from this site, in case you haven't seen it yet- and it does a good job of describing the history behind the controversy between ABCA/working Border Collie folks and the AKC. I am glad you registered your pup with the ABCA, even if you aren't breeding your dog- by registering with ABCA you are supporting an organization whose sole goal is to look out for the best interests of the Border Collie as a working dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INU Posted September 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 Thank you for the information. I wonder what happens when people started standarizing the "pefect look" for human pagents--no hazel eyes, no red hair, no taller than 5.9 etc... I love BCs because every one has its unique looks and they are just so beautiful . (at a puppy party the other day, everyone was just amazed by how cute my BC pup looked A lot of people had no idea what breed she was and it's probably because each BCs look different!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonH105 Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 Personally, I am into mixed breeds. My gypsy is 3/4 Border Collie and 1/4 Australian Kelpie. Moreover, I believe a breed of dog should be bred for working performance, not conformation. I grew up with a wonderful, mostly German Shepard with something else mixed in. After she died, my parents got two pure bred German Shepards. They were worthless. Substandard intelligence, sunken hips and no backbone to speak of. I think the more you inbreed for conformation the more you get an "appearance" backed up with all the genetic faults of a particular breed and little character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARTASBORDERS Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 I'll chime in with the expect of rebuttal BUT understand I am not what I used to believe in. I have changed....and my purposes are differant then alot of your AKC folks. I originally registered all my dogs ABCA and AKC for only the reasons to have the options to compete in AKC events along with NADAC. Plus as a breeder it seemed a plus for owners to have their pups reg both ways incase they wanted to compete later.I like Agility. To compete more often I reg. AKC for more weekends of opportunities. Thus one weekend could be NADAC and one weekend could be AKC,and so on.Yes the controversy is there because AKC has their querky standards and frankly I hate conformation classes.Like who cares how your dog is fluffed up and trots.This last year being on the Egroups for AKC_BC and PerformanceBCs I got tired of the endless posts of brags about "my dog a major(conformation) to see AKC is a no brainer competition.Hardly anyone gets on the list and brags about herding or obedience or agility titles.Or if they do the classes are not real for intelligence competition. I've shown in agility last few years in AKC and NADAC and AKC classes are yukky compared to NADAC. When my life gets back to normal because this last year is a rolly coaster, I'm pursuing herding and definately not AKC style and be taught by a NON Akc person.OOPS,sorry I lost my train of thought-sorry I work evening shift lately until 11PM and get windy. But that is my thoughts and unlike past I DO NOT believe in AKC. Sue Barta Bartas Border & Quarters www.bartasborders.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Sue, I can't tell you how glad I am to hear that. Welcome to the sunny side of the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaret M Wheeler Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Wow! What Bill Fosher said. Sue's remarks on the endless posts bragging about conformation wins... give witness to something that I learned in the JRTCA: once conformance showing enters the picture it is insidiously pervasive. Other activities are given lip service but the action (and the money) is in the conformation ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuck's BCBuddy Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Wow Sue, Does this mean we can't argue anymore ( )? Seriously though, glad to hear your new new stance on this issue. Carl Hochberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARTASBORDERS Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Argue? No I never liked it. And no I never stood by AKC or liked it either. I only reg. originally my dogs so I had more weekends to compete. As far as a roller coaster I was fired in April after 14 years and all spring/summer looked for a job. I got one in Aug.During the spring/summer I also found someone who teaches herding just a half hour from me but was waiting to get employed first. YES I hate the AKC bragging posts Margaret,,so trivial.As far as breeding,my 3 out of 6 are neutered or spayed for good reasons. Frankly I am tired of the whole scene of calls and emails even if the parents produced great pups who accomplished one thing or another.In Aug. I finally got a job and also a reg.Quarter Horse colt with awesome lines and intelligence but shhhhh don't tell hubby he is being gelded Nov.1st. My life has been a roller coaster losing my job after 14 years for no reason and putting any competition on hold like agility.I love agility.The union lawyers are fighting the hospital that fired me and D Day is Nov.24th,,final verdict they have to hire me back WITH back pay since April or give me a settlement.My new job I got at an awesome hospital is a fricking one hour drive but it will hold me for now working the ugghy evening shift.For now I breaK train a weanling QH baby and for QH people in just 4 weeks you would be amazed at what I taught him freestyle.For the dogs,they have fun until next year when we go herding.And for the record,I have sent two past puppy owners to Bill Gary now for training and yes I actually have civilized talks with Bill.Your arguments?- frankly as much as I like to get defensive,they did me good. And for the record,,AKC sucks,,they are only good if you want to show conformation,obedience but forget agility and herding,,they are no brainers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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