Risk to my unvaccinated dogs if foster pup has parvo?

[painted_ponies]

I have two older dogs (12 yr old Lhasa and 8 yr old terrier) who have not been vaccinated against anything but rabies in several years, on my vet's advice.

 

Should I even consider fostering pups from a shelter which has lost a fairly significant number of pups to parvo in the past few weeks?

 

Of course, I'd keep the fosters quarantined for the first couple of weeks. And I'd wear different shoes and clothes to take care of pups to avoid transmitting the virus to my other dogs. I guess I could carry them to a part of the yard where my adults seldom go, and of course I'd collect and dispose of feces.

 

With the above precautions, do y'all think I'd be putting my unvaccinated dogs at risk of parvo?

[Liz P]

Probably not, but I would ask your vet to be safe. I would also talk to your vet about how long parvo can live in the environment as bringing it into your house may put future foster puppies at risk.

[G. Festerling]

Absolutly! If you insist on taking a dog in that comes from an environment that has had recent parvo then it might be a ton cheaper in the long run to board the dog at a vets for the incuabtion period than to bring them home.

It is too contagious and will stick around no matter what.

If your older dogs, who will probably have some but maybe not a sufficient immunity to the parvo virus, get sick you will be spending a lot more money than if you boarded them. I do rescue and could personaly not afford to do that but for the same reason I try to minimize the risk of exposure as much as I can. Plus I do vaccinate, even though I am not in the camp of overdoing it and some of my older dogs get done less frequent, they never go longer than two years without it. The risk around here is just too big.

[painted_ponies]

Well, I wasn't actually thinking of bringing them into the house.

 

My feed store sells a 10'x10' 6 foot chain link enclosure. I figured the two pups could stay outside in that during the day, with a doghouse they could snuggle in, of course. I live on a farm so I could set the chain link enclosure up in a field where the unvaccinated dogs don't go.

 

Then at night I'd just crate them in a big airline crate and put the crate in my husband's music room where my dogs aren't allowed anyway.

 

Of course, this arrangement would just be for the quarantine period. I realize it's not ideal, but at least it would give them a safe, non-infectious environment for awhile.

 

Liz - I believe parvo can exist in the soil for 6-9 months. Unfortunately I'm between vets right now - lost the old one and, although I have a new one picked out, I haven't had occasion to visit him yet. But if one or both of the pups did have parvo (God forbid), I could just move the chain link enclosure to another spot before putting any other pups in it. And of course the crate and plastic doghouse could be Cloroxed.

 

G. Festerling - Do you suppose a vet's office would board two pups who haven't yet been vaccinated and who have been exposed to parvo? I haven't inquired of my new vet yet - does yours do this?

[G. Festerling]

Good question. My vet would. But only because I have a really good relationship with them. They would probably put her in the qurantine room for a while wich of course put it in a certain amount of danger as well. But if the vet can't keep things desinfected enough to minimize then how can I? But you are right that might be an issue.

 

It sounds like you have a pretty good plan going. But even here I had a pup in the yard and house (never left the property) and still got parvo. My vet pointed out that it also comes from wild animals. And in my case I am sure the cats and possoms and stuff trapsing around help spread it. Fortuantly he was vaccinated and only got a very mild case but still. It made me think about just how I would be able to keep everything sanitary.

 

Tough decision....

[tumblehome]

Originally posted by painted_ponies:

With the above precautions, do y'all think I'd be putting my unvaccinated dogs at risk of parvo?

But your dogs are vaccinated. They were vaccinated against parvo at some point, right? Immunity doesn't wear off. They're either immune or they ain't, but at their ages it's pretty obvious they are. A dog doesn't need multiple jabs for parvo after immunity is achieved. It's done and done.

 

I think your precautions are excellent and common sense will prevail. What a challenge you have undertaken!

Chris O

[Liz P]

Just an FYI, I heard there is a strain of parvo going around in New England in adult, vaccinated dogs.

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by tumblehome:

But your dogs are vaccinated. They were vaccinated against parvo at some point, right? Immunity doesn't wear off. They're either immune or they ain't, but at their ages it's pretty obvious they are. A dog doesn't need multiple jabs for parvo after immunity is achieved. It's done and done.

But doesn't that depend on a variety of factors? For instance, my understanding is we've lost our immunity to small pox. I guess the vaccine was good for about 20 years (going on memory here, after 9/11 there was a lot of talk about such things). I think the only way to know for absolute sure if a dog has immunity is to do titers.

 

I hadn't heard about the parvo in New England. Is it a new strain? Scary.

[AK dog doc]

Immunity doesn't wear off. They're either they're immune or they ain't, but at their ages it's pretty obvious they are.

Strictly speaking, this isn't actually true. It is true that in MOST cases of animals with healthy immune systems that have responded to vaccine in a normal fashion, immunity will be maintained for a period of time, often years, against some pathogens. This is NOT true of all dogs OR all pathogens, however, and in those dogs which lose immunity, or never develop good immunity in the first place, the loss or lack of it is not predictable or visible on a casual glance.

 

There's no age which makes it obvious than an animal is immune to a given pathogen. In order to prove immunity is present there are only two options: challenge or titer. Challenge is when you expose the animal to the pathogen and see if it gets sick or not. Titer is a blood test to look for protective immunity.

 

Immunity CAN wear off, and not all animals will respond with a long-term immunity. Some animals are poor responders, and age is no protection. Also, having long-term immunity depends on several factors, including the following:

 

* Normal immune system function (this can be impaired my a variety of disease states, several of which may be subclinical - and therefore undetected - but still sufficient to suppress immunity.)

 

* Immune system function tends to decline with age. The degree to which this is true varies by animal and "other" circumstances, such as stressors or concurrent disease, which can suppress immunity.

 

* In dogs with normal immune system function and a normal response to a previously-seen pathogen, if the clone which is responsible for responding to that pathogen is absent - lost via aging, blood or tissue loss, etc - then the immune system's memory of that pathogen is ALSO gone. In that case, the imune system has to start over again, and these animals CAN get parvo (or other illnesses) more than once.

 

* We do see viral variants and mutaions which render even a solid immnue response to the "garden variety" of the virus incapable of protecting the animal against a mutated strain.

 

There is a sticky about vaccination at the beginning of this section that details some of the ins and outs of immunity. As a general rule, I'd say that in a normal, healthy dog which has been previously vaccinated AND has responded to the vaccine, the chances of getting parvo are small. However, they are NOT zero. If you're reluctant to boost - and I have no objections if you are - then your choices are to titer... or wait and see if the dogs get ill or not. Talking to your vet (who can actually see the animal) would be an excellent first step. JMO.

[MaggieDog]

If it were me I wouldn't foster and my dog is vaccinated for parvo every 3 years right now. Parvo is EXTREMELY easy to transmit (i.e. on the bottom of shoes, clothes, etc.) and just by having the pups in the house for a portion of the day is risky imo.

 

Is your laundry room off limits to dogs? If not, I would bet your dogs could come into contact w/ "dirty" clothes fairly easily, not to mention if you don't strip down and change shoes/wash hands *before* stepping foot in the house. I did that in the garage after volunteering at the local shelter myself, even when nothing was active there, and it was rather chilly in the winter.

 

There are plenty of other dogs that need foster homes that haven't been exposed to parvo recently/are vaccinated.

[amberkaster]

I have pulled two dogs through parvo but would never consider bringing a parvo exposed dog home to my pets. When I worked for a vet parvo sent the staff into overdrive bleach cleaning and no one besides the vet worked on parvo positive dogs. It is a very sad death and sickening smell you don't forget. Sorry to come on so strong but parvo is horrible. jeanne

[painted_ponies]

Wow, I just thought to check this thread again and wanted to say thank you for all the well-thought-out and informative responses.

 

As it happened, Faith, the foster, had a raging case of coccidia but not parvo. The shelter workers kept telling me the stools of the puppies who died didn't look parvo-like to them. I think the coccidia might have proved fatal had Faith not been pulled, as she was severely underweight, passing very bloody liquid stools, lethargic and not eating.

 

Two vet visits, and two weeks of meds later, and I'm happy to say Faith's gained about four pounds, is eating me out of house and home, and is completely in love with Miss Violet, my grown-up BC. Who is pretending she is not amused, but I think she secretly likes having a little sister.

 

Thanks again to everyone.

[G. Festerling]

Hi Sally!

I am glad it worked out for you and for your pups sake that you did go for it. Like I said I was not one that would have jumped on that.

Thumbs up from me!

[painted_ponies]

Y'know, I'm not real sure I'd do it again. I constantly found myself standing in the kitchen with "contaminated" shoes on. It was lots harder to remember what to do than I thought. Luckily, it worked out fine for everyone, but I think I appreciate the risk a little more fully now.

 

Just as well, as it looks like I'm not really cut out for foster anyway. It's only been a little over two weeks and already I can't imagine giving this puppy up to anyone. Maybe it's because I spent so much time nursing her back to health. I really thought it wouldn't be a problem giving her up, since back in my chequered past I used to show dogs (NOT BC - I'd never even heard of BC back then) for clients in conformation. Sometimes they'd live with me for months, but I never had a problem sending them home. Some I was actually sort of happy to see the last of.

[G. Festerling]

The whole vaccination issue is a tough one for me. The vets would make a lot less money if people quit vaccinations. As we provide better care for dogs and they get older, of course we have more cancers showing up and other stuff. And are vaccines responsible for certain diseases? I am certain that it depends on the dog and his make up.

When my pup got parvo that is when it got clear to me just how hard it is to seperate everything. And then my cats are out and run around the place too...so yeah, I know what you mean.

But I am glad that she is good and maybe she might just stay with you?

[painted_ponies]

Originally posted by G. Festerling:

But I am glad that she is good and maybe she might just stay with you?

I hope so - I'd like that very much. She's a bright funny little girl and would make a good companion for my grown up BC Violet. Who up till now only had the Lhasa troll and the terrier-ist to play with. I love her dearly, but Violet's a little "sensitive" (read "neurotic") and I think someone she could really run and play with would be good for her mental and physical health.

 

Now we just have to convince DH. But since he and Faith were piled up on the sofa watching "The Fellowship of the Ring" together last night, I'm feeling somewhat hopeful.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

But since he and Faith were piled up on the sofa watching "The Fellowship of the Ring" together last night, I'm feeling somewhat hopeful. [smile]

You foster BCs, you live in the Carolinas, and you are Tolkien fans - we really must meet sometime soon!

 

What I'd do is check titers on my unvaccinated population, if you don't do vaccs for some particular reason. OR, you can request just parvo - it's not a vaccination I'd consider to be one of the more problematic ones. I'd love to go vaccine free here but other than Ben it's just too risky with constant exposure to shelter dogs.

 

As you've found out, coccidea and giardia are just a big a problem (though not as serious), and the giardia vaccine is practically worthless, and there's nothing at all for coccidea.

 

Your older dogs will be at almost no risk for coccidea, especially if you quarantine for a couple weeks and walk new dogs seperately (and not near standing water or wet soil - gravel is best). Giardia can be a little more of a problem, but prevention is the same as parvo and coccidea, and it's actually slightly less contagious than the less virulent coccidea.

 

Parvo is risky if you have, yourself, a puppy up to age eighteen months. Protection via vaccination seems to be rather touch and go in my experience - I've known two different people who lost fully vaccinated pups (around six months old), when they brought in a rescue with parvo. I've never heard of adults (over eighteen months) being a problem, as carriers of parvo, nor of correctly vaccinated adults with healthy immune systems, getting parvo from rescues.