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Everything posted by tumblehome

  1. I went to Crufts once, some time ago last century. The handlers were not actually slovenly, but certainly not dressed for dinner like they are in the US. The dogs were not actually ungroomed, but certainly were not sprayed and polished and tweaked like they are here. So, these things are good, IMO, even though I don't quite get the reverse snobbism of the Crufts' participants (nor do I understand the top hat and tails approach in the US). The disconnect between the breed ring dogs and the performance dogs was easily as profound there, then, as it is here, now. In agility and obedience, there were no Border Collies, just Working Collies--the dogs we would recognize I think as working Border Collies. The breed ring retrievers were coffee table dogs--broad backs and squatty short legs--as they are being shown now, here in the US. However, the working retrievers looked remarkably like our working retrievers look. And in the UK they swear up and down that there is NO show/work split in any of these breeds. So, even while enjoying the performances, it was painful to watch the "conformation dogs" move with little of the grace and purpose they originally had been bred for. FWIW. Chris O
  2. Greentripe.com is in central coastal California and will ship anywhere but the cost of shipping will take all the fun out of feeding raw green tripe. Prey4Pets in Kentucky has lovely tripe--whole sheets of the stuff while greentripe.com only offers coarsely ground tripe and tripe blends. Both companies have reputations for producing high quality product. Canned tripe is cooked of course and as far as I have seen, is doctored up to meet the AAFCO requirements for "complete and balanced." This would not raw green tripe of course. Since green tripe is not a nutritional requirement, I'd say source out raw you can afford or don't bother. And of course the bleached white stuff in grocery stores is not the tripe you're looking for. HTH. Chris
  3. Assuming an otherwise healthy dog, the most successful and healthiest way to add weight is to increase the amount of food, increase the frequency of meals, and add fat. It is usually less explosive to add fat and increase daily intake by spreading the wealth over more meals--more food, less stress. Probably the elk and venison are very lean but certainly mutton isn't and although pork necks are generally bone with some attached non-bone stuff, there's usually plenty of fat there. The fish oil does not significantly increase calorie count. Your friend can try adding more fat, but she should do it over time: weight gain to be healthy should not be abrupt. Feeding pork meat will add healthy weight (as opposed to the weight gain that comes from cereal grains); feeding beef heart complete with its suet is another way to get healthy calories into her dog. Based on my experience with putting weight on dogs, at least a month is needed to add weight without digestive upset. My apologies for replying so late. Hope this helps. Chris
  4. I don't really understand why those who choose not to feed raw are so fussed by those of who do. The title of this thread makes it clear it is about feeding raw diets; it does not appear to be about why, but rather how. For those of us who have chosen to feed raw, and for those who in the face of a massive petfood recall are reconsidering their options, this topic could be useful and enlightening and maybe even interesting. If those of you who disagree with raw feeding are frustrated by reading about wolves (grey) and the inextricable relationship between grey wolves (canis lupus) and dogs (canis lupus familiaris), perhaps you might simply not linger. I for one am not trying to persuade anyone to do something they are not comfortable with, for whatever reason; I am trying communicate safe, easy , flexible and nutritious ways to make raw possible. Seems to me that the Border Collie Boards are large enough to accomodate those who are fer a raw diet, as well as those who are agin it. Chris O
  5. Hey, I'm glad you posted. I am not about to question your credentials but I am interested in your references. Thanks! Chris O
  6. There are two basic ways to decide how much to feed. Usually they sort of blend together after a while. The first is to feed some percentage of ideal adult body weight--2%, 3%, 4% even 5% if your bc is "on" 24/7. So a 40lb adult might get 13oz a day (at 2%), or 19oz a day (at 3%), or perhaps 25oz (at 4%). My 6mo pup weighs about 25lb; I am feeding her about a pound of food a day which according to the formula would be adequate for a 50lb adult. I doubt she'll even get to 40lb but she's burning through that amount of food right now so I dare not reduce it, at least yet. When she slows down (yeah right), she may get less food. The other way is to simply start with some amount and then adjust up or down as your dog's appearance, behavior, energy level, etc. warrant it. This is hard for lots of people who are accustomed to feeding per a chart, but for the dog it makes more sense--if you need more food you eat more food, if you don't, you don't. I think it's easiest to start with a percentage of adult weight, then adjust up and down based on the dog itself. Best of both worlds, IMO. I get my fish oil good old Walmart. Truly though, it's everywhere. Chris O
  7. Garlic is considered fine in moderation. For a medium size dog, a small clove every other day is not invasive. There's little reason to feed onion; garlic may help with fleas. However, there are other non-traditional ways to deal with fleas, so if you're not comfortable feeding garlic, you certainly don't have to. Chris O
  8. Thanks. No picture because I haven't figured out how to post them. And I can't seem to take a decent photo of her. Grim, very grim. However! If you go to http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n168/RD...a/HeadStudy.jpg and look at Roseanne's girl, you'll see almost exactly what Tess looks like. Same, same, same. Chris O
  9. You did nothing wrong except maybe feed difficult bones to a newbie dog. At their best, beef bones are difficult for most dogs to digest. A dog that is just beginning is not generally up to the challenge of dense bones. Don't feed beef bones until Riven has had some on the job training. The vomited bone bits are what's left after Riven's digestive system has done all it can do--what can't go out one way will come out the other; both exit strategies are more healthy than stagnant irritants. If Riven refuses to eat chicken, I mean, after you've given her the choice of chicken or zip and she opts for zip, try a different meat. I forget--have you tried pork? Try pork. Doesn't have to have a bone in it for now; for now just concern yourself with meat acceptance. Chris O
  10. Most of this has been gone over and you've got some great information to work with, so I'll keep this as really and truly short as I can. If you want to feed veggies and fruit, add them to a meal after you've decided what the menu is. Veggies and fruit do not have to use up valuable space...they can be plopped literally on top of the essential food, and in quantities far less than 25% of the diet. How about 2%? Much more realistic. Veggies and fruit are great as treats though, and as long as you remember that treats are special, you can use veggies and fruit freely. Squash is generally regarded as a dietary aid if one is so inclined, not a rotation veggie. I prefer to regulate my dogs' stools with more or less bone and more or less meat or organs, but some people think squash does the trick faster and with less effort. Too much squash may constipate OR loosen up a dog, so please rethink including it in the menu. Better to feed it to yourself. Brewer's yeast should definitely be reconsidered. There's no nutritional need for it. Spend your money on high quality human grade meats and organs and you will not have to worry about compiling a laundry list of supplements. The same goes for ACV and flaxseed oil. Your dog has digestive juices that out strip ACV's benefits. Let your dog do what it can do, naturally. Flaxseed oil is a very inefficient source of Omega 3 fatty acids. What it has is a precursor to it--alpha linolenic acid--that must be converted to linolenic acid before the dog can use it. Only about a third of the ALA actually benefits the dog. Stick to animal-based EFAs. The salmon oil (or fish body oil, but not cod liver oil) will do fine and be more effective. Vitamins come in the foods you feed. You do not have to add more. Adding C and E comfort some people, I don't think either is necessary but neither is especially intrusive if used appropriately. Instead of looking for sources of premixed, premade meat-based products, you should consider grocery stores, supermarkets, meat wholesalers, Asian markets. You can almost certainly buy human grade food for less money, with less hassle and with fewer compromising "ingredients." Chris O
  11. You have to understand that dogs have no nutritional need for carbohydrates. So if you want to feed vegetables, you should add them after the essential meal itself has been created. While they may offer trace minerals--and this is why (I think) people continue to feed them--they should not be a significant part of the basic diet. Green beans are probably not the best choice but lots of people sure do rely on them for filling up dogs. Depending on what else is on the menu, green beans range from harmless to intrusive. A meal that is already quite loaded with grains and other veggiesfor example has no need for even more plant material. A meal that is substantially meat can take extraneous vegetation. If I were going to add vegetables to my dogs' menu, I myself would choose dark leafy stuff in an attempt to replicate browse. That said, as long as you limit veggies to topper status, whatever you want to blenderize or cook (steaming is probably least destructive), you can use. It doesn't make sense (to me) to be fearful of food that dogs were eating long before kibble was invented. Raw meat is easily digestible, it is uncompromised by rendering or grains or organic chemistry, it retains more of its nutrients than cooked does. But if you need an alternative to commercial dog food and raw meat doesn't do it for you, following some well-researched and written cooked recipes isn't a bad way to go. Chris O
  12. I am feeding one Lab, two goldens, one cat and a border collie pup. The cat and the pup pretty much get the same food but in different sizes; the big dogs get more food and more complicated food. Beyond that, I don't think I've made things too awfully difficult for myself. The big dogs get whole chicken, lamb breasts or legs, turkey quarters, whole rabbit, bone-in pork shoulder roast, "long" pig's feet, goat parts, whole raw sardines and mackerel, salmon heads, chicken backs that I feed with beef, pork, lamb and venison trim and heart; I also feed liver, kidney, spleen, lungs, trachea, green tripe. I sometimes give whole cow feet for amusement. I irregularly supplement with fish oil caps, right now that's my only supplement. The pup gets smaller, easier portions and meaty bones that are too small for the big dogs, like lamb shanks, goat or lamb necks, beef gullet. Occasionally I will pop for a Cornish game hen to give pup and cat more challenging chicken parts. Oh, and when the pup was a wee bairn, a whole quail was a perfect size for a meal. Generally I don't go so very far out of my way to make these foods happen. I do make a tripe run every other month for the buying group I belong to. I think Donna F's purchasing accomplishments are outstanding--especially given how difficult it is for UK raw feeders to find affordable variety! She's a terrific role model (well, in more ways than one, actually). Chris O
  13. I look so look forward to deer season! I have been feeding trim plus some organs and occasional meaty bones for several years now. My dogs do well on vension and rarely have loose stools even after large meals; venison was my pup's first meal at home here and she did fine as well. I avoid the legs since they are effectively meatless and I choose not to offer bare bones to my dogs. I am wary of the rib cage for the same reason. The necks I have gotten though have uniformly been meaty works of art. While there is no evidence at all that wolves, coyotes or dogs are susceptible to CWD (though cats are) and indeed some research suggests healthy wolf populations are instrumental in keeping CWD from spreading (by removing the diseased deer), if you are concerned about it, avoid eating/feeding the brain and the spinal column. This of course removes the lovely meaty necks from the menu but that's not an awful price to pay for being able to feed your dogs venison. I don't see why wild turkey wouldn't be useful. Make sure (in both cases) there are no bullets or shot in the carcass; if you would feel safer, a thorough freezing (frozen solid for two weeks is fine) will kill most parasites. Chris O
  14. If it's homemade dog food you want (I assume you mean cooked food, not raw) you could check out http://b-naturals.com; I believe Lew has included four or five homecooked recipes in her diet section. Also, many people still refer to Dr. Richard Pitcairn's recipes but generally replace all or most of the grain with veggies. Chris O
  15. When you get to feeding Rohan a proper diet, you won't likely have to continue the hairball stuff. For cats and dogs both, a good raw diet includes raw meaty bones, organ meat, and meat. The bones and the connective tissue (sinew, cartilage, tendons, etc.) in the diet generally are quite effective hairball fixers. So if you need to use the stuff now--while you are introducing raw foods and making whatever transitional compromises you need to make (cats can be a PITA)--do it. Oh just switch her. There's nothing testing will tell you that you don't already know by seeing. The chances are high that the same meats (assuming of course Riven is sensitive to meat proteins and not something in the environment, which is more likely anyway) fed raw will not be reactive. Because you can pick and choose the meat proteins you feed, you have a lot of room to work in. Start simple, don't rush to feed everything in the buffet, but start. Chris O
  16. versus http://www.flyballdogs.com/personal/mcnab.html So, I'm confused. How can one tell the difference between a McNab and a Lockeye-bred-type border collie? Chris O
  17. You need to not panic. Panic is not productive. If you feed a variety of protein sources and a variety of body parts (suitable for cats when feeding cats and suitable for dogs when feeding dogs), you will not miss any significant nutrient and if you should fall short in some areas on some days, over the long haul variety will even everything out just fine. The best way not to overdose is to not dose unless and until you have adequate reason to do so. "Just because" and "on account of" and "it can't hurt" are not good enough reasons. If you are just starting out--and because very little of anything happens over night--you will have plenty of time to adjust both menu items and amounts to benefit Rohan and Riven. As regards fish body oil, it is often recommended for any critter (humans included) that eats a diet heavy on Omega 6 which--if the critter (humans included) eats a typical diet of feedlot livestock and factory poultry and grains--is generally the case. The fish oil provides Omega 3, ideally in doses high enough to reduce the Omega 6:Omega 3 ratio to about 4:1 (down from the typical ratio of 16:1). However, the more pastured/grassfed livestock, the more freerange chickens, the more of certain fish you eat/feed, the greater the levels of naturally-occurring Omega 3 the diet contains; and the less one has to rely on supplemental O3. Not really that much different from eating right overall. Chris O
  18. Well yeah--if the agility classes include the same activities as adult classes do! But if the puppy classes are all about short and sweet sessions, about ground work and basic obedience and introduction to the equipment then they might be fun as well as safe and sane. I think before you sign up or run like heck in the other direction you should find out what exactly is offered. Anything that strikes you as excessive for baby dogs most likely is. Chris O
  19. This is a great website! Thanks for posting it. Chris O
  20. I dunno.... Looks more like ChiXPapillion to me. Or even a long-hair Chi. Borgis (border collie/corgi crosses) are quite popular in my area right now and while I realize that crosses can come out looking like most anything, the borgis I've seen look very much like shorter, longer border collies. They are not small dogs. FWIW. Chris
  21. When the bad days outweigh the good, then it's time. And you'll know, deep down inside you'll know, even if you don't want to admit it out loud. Until then, let her guide you. I had to euthanize my 10 year old golden last month. He had one seizure, then nothing for two weeks, then another, then two more that night, then nothing for two days, then an endless succession of them, ravaging him every half hour until we could get him to the vet. Fortunately for me the choice was obvious; relief was the only solution. But prior to that final night, he was doing okay. He was eating, visiting, wagging his tail, snoffing the weeds along the fenceline--still very much alive. That's what tell us, I think. When living is harder than not living, your sweet girl will tell you. I'm so very sorry. Chris O
  22. I've only altered Labs and goldens, but in all cases they were from working bloodlines and were honest to goodness working dogs. There is no way I could keep one of these dogs quiet for two weeks and there was no reason to do so. I monitored their activity and generally nixed full tilt romping but because their surgeries were normal, that sort of gentle restraint was plenty good. I can't imagine that a responsibly managed border collie, even a young hooligan, would need two weeks of house arrest if, as you say, the surgery was uneventful. IMO of course. Chris O
  23. "Better" is kind of subjective, but certainly raw bones from young chickens are easier to dismantle than beef bones (I don't feed ANY beef bones as edible) and are often softer than pork bones as well. But generally speaking, pork bones are easy to chomp for most dogs. "Safer" is also kind of subjective, but experience has showed me that chicken bones (with meat on of course) are easily crunched and digested, even for pups or new dogs. That's sort of how I see "safer." Chris O
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