hypothyroidism and immune system

[jvw]

I just found out that my BCxACD is profoundly hypothyroid. The good news is that its easily managed. But the thing that worries me is that it was diagonosed as the kind of hypothyroidism that occurs when the immune system attacks the thyroid and destroys it. I just wonder if her immune system did that what else is it wreaking havock on?

 

Does anyone have any experience with this type of hypothyroidism? And did you experience other immune system problems later on?

 

I'm frustrated because for almost her whole life (she is 6) she's been on a raw diet AND had MINIMAL vaccines. I guess its possible she would be in worse shape if I hadn't done these things.

 

So much for cross breeds having more genetic vigor!

 

Jennifer

[Kyrasmom]

Hi Jennifer,

 

How did the vet come to make this auto-immune connection?

 

I have a severely hypothyroid dog so I'm a bit curious.

Maria

[jvw]

The sample was sent to Michigan State and an endocrinologist commented on the results. Sorry, I don't have the report in front of me but the presence and level of some kind of certain cells indicates what they call lymphocytic thyroiditis. That, combined with the radical results of various other things they measure determined this.

 

Interestingly enough my vet didn't actually point this out to me. She just said yes, she is hypothyroid, this is the meds we're going to use. My friend who is a vet read the report and is the one that explained the details to me.

 

I've been surfing looking for more info. One site said this kind of hypothyroidism accounts for 90% of hypothyroidism. I don't know their sources. Also, it seems to be more common in purebreeds.

 

These types of cells that I don't know the name of actually can be measured way before hypothyroidism sets in and steps can be taken to prevent hypothyroidism. But this kind of testing isn't normally done on what appears to be a healthy dog. Mostly people test sooner if they are going to breed.

 

Jennifer

[doubleofarm]

Jennifer,

 

I am sorry to hear about your dog but as you say hypothyroidism is easily managed and not expensive to treat. I hope that is also the case with your dog.

 

I am part of an international group for canine epilepsy that works closely with Dr. Jean Dodds. She is an expert on canine thyroid issues and helps us with the epis, many of which are hypo.

 

She reads results for the public at $25.00 and interprets them taking into account the breed, age, lifestyle, etc. She will consult with your vet too if you'd like. I have included 2 weblinks in case you are interested in having her review the results as well.

 

If you need any more information feel free to email me at osci@aol.com. Good Luck!

 

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...nstructions.htm

 

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...ddsInfoForm.htm

[jvw]

Thank you for the info Tina.

 

Jennifer

[juliepoudrier]

Jennifer,

Not exactly the same thing, but I have a dog who became quite ill with a mystery illness this past summer (high fever, lethargy, but nothing specific in the bloodwork, except perhaps low thyroid). We ended up giving him a combination of two antibiotics, followed by a third after the first two were completed before he improved. Anyway, a vet friend of mine pointed out to me that hypothyroidism can affect the immune system and that the infection (whatever it was) could have been a result of the reduced function of the thyroid gland. When we did a full thyroid panel after he was feeling better, he did come back as hypothyroid. So as I understand it the immune system may cause the hypothyroidism (as in your example), but hypothyroidism can also lead to reduced immune function. Sorry to muddy the waters....

 

J.

[Shoofly]

Julie - that's interesting. My Belle, who you might remember has had the same sort of mystery fever/illness thing happen, just came back as hypothyroid this week. I picked up her new meds today. The blood work didn't show her as being too low 2 months ago when she last had the weird fever, but it was low normal. Then this week, on repeating bloodwork, she came back as hypothyroid.

 

I've heard before (may have been from Jean Dodds even) that BCs who come back as low normal maybe should be considered hypothyroid and start the meds. Jean is the one who suggested my old Ben start on thyroid hormone when his values started dropping, as a result of the autoimmune thyroiditis.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

My Ben has been in the low normal range for a couple years now and keeps dropping very slowly, but never quite into "abnormal" range. He is on meds nevertheless, as a vet who worked with my usual vet was a fan of Dr. Dodds (thankfully).

 

Ben also has severe problems with various food sensitivities, seasonal allergies, flea dermititis, contact dermatitis - all immune related. I'm going to wait until after the stress of lambing and the clinic is over, and then have Dr. Dodds look at a complete bloodwork and see what she thinks - plus there is a holistic vet clinic in north Durham I want to try out.

[Black Watch Debatable]

Rebecca, I'm sending you a PM. I have no dog in this fight, but from what I've read over at the Orthodogs Forum, I'm not sure I'd view Dr. Dodds as the final authority on all things thyroid.

[Kyrasmom]

Thanks for sharing the information JVW and others. Does anyone know where on the scale their BC does best when medicated. I believe it's from 3-6 with medication and I've been noticing that mine does much better on the high end versus the low end of the scale.

 

I'm still trying to find the right dosage.

 

Thanks,

Maria

[juliepoudrier]

Robin,

It is curious isn't it? I guess we'll never really know if there *is* a connection between the mystery illness and hypothyroid. All the reading I've done indicates that thyroid hormone affects *all* systems in the body, but I haven't found anything that draws a direct link between hypothyroid and reduced immune function. (There's plenty on autoimmune-related destruction of thyroid function, though.)

 

Maria,

When I first put Boy on thyroxine, my vet had me put him on the lower dose in the range he needed. My holistic vet promptly had me put him on a dose at the high end of the range. He's lost his hair again, and I'm thinking it's time to have him retested to see if he needs an even higher dose. Farleigh never had any of the typical symptoms of hypothyroidism. He just became ill with the mystery illness. When the initial bloodwork showed possible hypothyroidism, we waited till he was well before retesting the thyroid, since the question became something of a chicken vs. egg thing--did the hypotyhroid lead to loss of immune function that led to the illness or did the illness cause loss of thyroid function? At any rate, he's on the same dose as Boy (high end of the range). FWIW.

 

J.

[Liz P]

Yes, I used to own a BC with it. He was nervous, became grumpy and even started to bite and growl, his hair looked dull, he had lots of allergies, he was terrified of thunderstorms... pretty classic presentation. He was put on meds and he started to get better right away. A few months into treatment he had facial nerve paralysis, we increased his dose of Soloxine and that cleared up. A few months after that he had some deficits in the nerves of his pelvic limbs. We increased his dose again and he was doing very well until he was diagnosed with cancer.

 

Thyroid hormone does play a big role in maintaining the body's normal systems. If your dog is not on the right dose of meds everything will be off. This includes nerves (and the brain), immune system, muscles, internal organs, skin & hair, etc.

[jvw]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

 

My Tyra has always been bitchy so who knows if that will clear up with meds

 

She was also spayed at 8 weeks so I wonder if that has anything to contribute to the problem. She is incontinent when she sleeps.

 

Hopefully it won't be a battle finding the right dose for her!

 

Jennifer

[NancyO]

just curious, but for the dogs put on meds, what were thier T4 and free T4 results? Was wondering if both the T4 and Free T4 were low, or just one of them?

 

Nancy O

[Kyrasmom]

Thanks Julie for the input. It gets so confusing, the only sign I have with mine is aggression because thus far everything else is normal, however he was extremely low when diagnosed, something like 0.4 so I'm really concerned that something else will eventually begin to fall apart if I don't get the dose right.

 

My vet tends to prefer him on less medication and keep him borderline normal with supplementation but he's still fearful and prone to aggression. I've convinced her to allow us to increase his dosage and he seems better but still not where I would like him to be.

 

Jennifer, I don't think the early spay would be cause for the hypothyroid, possibly the incontinence though. You'll probably see an improvement in temperament overall...though some females are just prone to grumpiness.

 

Maria

 

PS: Nancy, mine was low on both.

[juliepoudrier]

Nancy,

I need to have both rechecked and will check on the original results then, but I don't remember what they were off the top of my head, so can't answer your question.

 

J.

[Tassie]

My previous old Border ColliexKelpie girl Jess was hypothyroid - symptoms appeared at about age 2. The only symptom she showed was bilaterally symmetrical hair loss. In those days there was no test here in Tasmania, so after treatment for parasites was unsuccessful, she was put on Oroxine to see if it was hypothyroidism. After a couple of weeks there was improvement, so we just did trial and error with the dose until her skin and coat were back to normal.

 

Once she was tested, it became clear from clinical signs that she needed to be maintained at the high end of the normal range for her to be in good health. One vet at one time changed her dose to bring her back to low-middle, but it was clearly not enough, so we decided to go with clinical signs. She lived, in good health, apart from some lipomas, some arthritis, and one UTI to 15.5 years.

[Shoofly]

Nancy, i'll try to remember to post the numbers tomorrow, but it was just the free T4 if i'm remembering correctly.

[Liz P]

My dog continued to have neurological deficits until he was back into the mid to high normal range. The internal medicine vet who treated him said if a dog is not at least mid range normal on meds its dose is not high enough.