Shoulder Injury Help-Advise

[Kuvarro]

So on Saturday about 5 days ago we were on a hike throwing a stick for Kuvarro, my 2 year old border collie. The stick turned on end when it hit the ground and my boy jump on top of it. At first we thought it had impaled him but there was only a small abrasion. However he could only take a few steps before laying down. We carried him a mile plus out of the woods. He is still limping and does not have his normally energy. There seems to be no obvious point tenderness. Yesterday he watched chickens most of the day against my better judgement. Today he won't even get up to greet people he just barks from where he's laying until they say hi to him. Prior to yesterday I have been keeping him in the house and not letting him run mostly. He still is whining when he moves his leg wrong.

Ultimately I am taking him to the vet today but I need advise. I figure it is one of three things a tear, sprain or broken bone. If its broken or sprain I need tips to keep him calm and get him to rest.

If it is torn, which is suspect it is, I need advise on the best treatment for a 2 year old, very lean 40lb, highly active male. We have another senior dog(shepherd mix) with two torn ACLs we decided to use conservative management with(because we knew he wouldn't allow him self to recover properly) and that has been going great but if Kuvarro has torn something I don't really think that conservative management would be ideal. Has anyone had experiences with torn ligaments. (I highly suspect something is torn)

Obviously I know I should wait to hear what the vet says, but I want to hear other peoples experiences so that I can make well informed decisions about my dogs care.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Kuvarro
Adding another sentence

[urge to herd]

I"m sorry your boy hurt himself so badly. My 11 yr old is going through conservative management of acl damage in both knees.

It sounds like Kuvarro's injury in his shoulder area? That's a complex joint system. I wish you the best of luck with finding out what's going on and how to treat it. Please let us know what happens at the vet.

Ruth & Gibbs

[Smalahundur]

In a case like this, where there is no clear diagnosis, you won't get any usefull information from that poll. Some torn ligaments or tendons fare better with conservative  treatment, others need surgery. It depends on a myriad of factors. Wish you all the best with your dog.

[GentleLake]

9 hours ago, Kuvarro said:

The stick turned on end when it hit the ground and my boy jump on top of it.

This is why I recommend never throwing stick for dogs. My first border collie did this and did some serious damage to the inside of his mouth and throat. There was lots of blood and the vet said if it had entered only a small degree to one side it could have killed him.

So, what I'm wondering from your description is, is it possible that the stick either went deeper than you realized or perhaps left a fragment under the skin that's now become infected?

Or, as is sometimes the case in seemingly minor injuries, could he perhaps have pulled or wrenched another part of his body as he defensively reacted to prevent worse injury to his mouth? Kinda the way you can wrench your back when you bump a shoulder into a door frame, no real effect to the point of impact but you end up with a sore back from it.

I agree that the best thing to do is have a vet assess him to see what's going on.

And I agree that without knowing more, the poll isn't gonna tell you anything useful.

[Ranchhand]

>So on Saturday about 5 days ago we were on a hike throwing a stick for Kuvarro, my 2 year old border collie. The stick turned on end when it hit the ground and my boy jump on top of it. At first we thought it had impaled him but there was only a small abrasion. <

@Kuvarro- you don’t specifically mention where the abrasion actually is, but if under the shoulder, could it be a dislocation from the impact?

[GentleLake]

I'm just realizing that I may have misread and there was no mouth injury. (Still something to worry about with sticks.)

If he landed on the stick on his shoulder, it may well have left only a small abrasion but still caused deep and painful soft tissue bruising.

Hope we'll get an update soon.

[Kuvarro]

On 1/3/2019 at 7:58 PM, GentleLake said:

This is why I recommend never throwing stick for dogs. My first border collie did this and did some serious damage to the inside of his mouth and throat. There was lots of blood and the vet said if it had entered only a small degree to one side it could have killed him.

So, what I'm wondering from your description is, is it possible that the stick either went deeper than you realized or perhaps left a fragment under the skin that's now become infected?

Or, as is sometimes the case in seemingly minor injuries, could he perhaps have pulled or wrenched another part of his body as he defensively reacted to prevent worse injury to his mouth? Kinda the way you can wrench your back when you bump a shoulder into a door frame, no real effect to the point of impact but you end up with a sore back from it.

I agree that the best thing to do is have a vet assess him to see what's going on.

And I agree that without knowing more, the poll isn't gonna tell you anything useful.

My family has decided that we will not be throwing large sticks for him anymore nothing larger than a foot. The vet gave me and antibiotic and anti inflammatory in case that’s the issue. If it’s not better in a few more days we will have to get an x-ray. There is still no improvement and it’s been a week.

[Kuvarro]

15 hours ago, Ranchhand said:

>So on Saturday about 5 days ago we were on a hike throwing a stick for Kuvarro, my 2 year old border collie. The stick turned on end when it hit the ground and my boy jump on top of it. At first we thought it had impaled him but there was only a small abrasion. <

@Kuvarro- you don’t specifically mention where the abrasion actually is, but if under the shoulder, could it be a dislocation from the impact?

We considered dislocation, the abrasion is kinda on his left shoulder near his chest. There was amount of bleeding to start with. The vet felt all over and couldn’t feel anything out of the ordinary so she decided to treat the least expensive issue and then see if it helps. But so far no improvement.

[GentleLake]

The stick that my dog impaled himself in the mouth with was no longer than a foot long. It's not the size of the stick but its landing sticking upright that the dog can pounce on that presents the danger.

I will never throw stick on land for my dogs again. I may occasionally throw a largish stick into the water where it can only end up flat.

A week really isn't a very long time for a deep tissue bruise to heal. I've had some that have taken several weeks or even more than a month to stop hurting. Unless it gets worse or is still bothering him a couple months from now, be patient and give it time. Did you ask the vet how long it may take to heal?

 

[urge to herd]

There may have been connective tissue damage ~ ligament or tendon strain or tear. IF that is the case, it takes a long time to heal. My dogs have sometimes needed a month of no running or exertion. Difficult but possible.

The problem is such damage will not show up on an xray, so it's kind of a diagnosis by elimination. Keeping him quiet will start the healing process.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Ruth & Gibbs

[Ranchhand]

@Kuvarro- do you have an update on your 2 yr old injured buddy?

[Sue R]

On 1/5/2019 at 12:16 PM, Kuvarro said:

My family has decided that we will not be throwing large sticks for him anymore nothing larger than a foot. The vet gave me and antibiotic and anti inflammatory in case that’s the issue. If it’s not better in a few more days we will have to get an x-ray. There is still no improvement and it’s been a week.

Please don't throw sticks at all. There is too much opportunity for injury, even with smaller sticks. Instead, use balls, artificial sticks (Kong makes one that my dog loves), or other toys that are made for tossing but are safe for dogs. 

That said, if I don't have a toy along on a walk, I have one or two dogs that often pick up sticks. They both have a "drop it" or "leave it" command if I don't want them even holding the stick (like if it is splintery or has sharp ends), but I do sometimes let them *carry* a stick that I feel is safe (solid, without splinters, and large enough). But I never throw a stick. 

[Alchemist]

I don't know where you live, but I swear by my specialist ortho vet. A regular vet rarely has much expertise in diagnosing ortho injuries, let alone figuring how best to treat them and to return a dog to regular activities. I've had several situations where a regular vet will offer sedated X-rays (bloodwork for anaesthesia, half-day hospital stay) - very pricey! (In one case the X-rays proved "inconclusive"). Whereas the specialist ortho vets have been able to do unsedated X-rays right on the spot. They're used to diagnosing different sorts of injuries, and to formulating appropriate courses of action. I've actually found them to be less expensive than working with a conventional vet, largely because of the unsedated X-rays plus faster treatment (= fewer vet visits).