Puppy update and is this a reasonable vaccine/booster schedule?

[brookitar]

Our new puppy we adopted just turned 9 weeks old. He was definitely a great decision my border collie is so happy to have a playmate now. Loki's mother was a rescued red merle border collie and the father of the pups was unknown. Two out of five of his litter mates were double merles which led us to believe the father was most likely another merle border collie or an aussie.

 

Well we have decided he is half aussie so far....we may have DNA tests later on to confirm. Some clues we have observed with Loki is he has a really bad lazy eye sometimes in the eye with less pigment, he is extremely chunky/thick compared to other border collie puppies I have seen, his hair is extremely thick with more shedding than our border collie, and he has a very wide stance in his back legs I've noticed a lot of Aussies have. He still stalks/sneaks like a border collie but also has that funny running bounce like an aussie.

 

One thing is for sure I'm going to have to get him into classes most likely because he herds aggressively and tries to dominate every dog he meets. When we got him at 7 1/2 weeks the first thing he did was try to hump our border collie and has since then done it to every dog or puppy we let him socialize with. He also tries to bite the other dogs sides, back legs, and sometimes the front of their bodies. Last week he ripped a hole through my scrubs trying to bite the back of my legs when I would walk...OUCH! Two mini aussies where we live gave him a "warning" lots of growling but no biting when he would approach them and attempt to hump. Does anyone on here have experience with this problem in puppy dominance and extreme herding?

 

Also as far as vaccines go I gave Loki his first booster at 6 1/2 weeks since we live in an apartment community with other dogs and he was within age range. He will be 9 1/2 weeks if I vaccinate him (waiting 3 weeks) on Sunday and 12 1/2 weeks I'll just take him to a clinic to get his 3rd booster + rabies vaccine. With him being done with the boosters at 12 1/2 weeks would it be effective? Or should I wait until next weekend (waiting 4 weeks) when he is 10 1/2 weeks and at 13 1/2 weeks to give him his last two puppy boosters? I've read controversial articles all day and can't get a very straight forward answer. Also here is the booster in the link below I have been giving him. Also is it best to give boosters up to three times or keep giving boosters until 16 weeks old?

 

http://www.durvet.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=154:canine-spectra-5

 

Also here is the most recent picture of Loki at 9 weeks old.

 

[brookitar]

 

 

 

 

[gcv-border]

So happy that YOU are happy with your pup. Cute boy.

 

DNA tests: I don't put much faith in them as they are not as reliable as the marketing leads you to believe. Save your money and spend it on toys or lessons.

 

Extreme herding at this age: Sorry, nope. At this age, it is just bratty puppy behavior. When he misbehaves like that, pick him up and give him a time-out. (put him somewhere away from the action for a minute or two). You don't have to say NO. In fact, just pick him up matter-of-factly and deposit him in a room and close the door. I used to use my half-bath since it was convenient to the living room where most of the play happened. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

 

Trying to bite your pants: Similar approach - all action stops (in this case, you stop walking). You can also pick him up and put him 'away' (not in a crate) for a minute or two. Rinse and repeat if necessary.

[Maralynn]

Re vaccines - I think it's not the number that they get, but giving them to the pups so they'll be sure to have immunity when the maternal immunity wears off. That could be anywhere from 10 - 16 weeks from what I've read. Personally, I prefer to wait until around 4 m/o for rabies vaccination but timing could be different for others depending on local laws

[Chanse]

I don't think I would call it puppy dominance, your puppy is too young to truly be showing dominance behavior. This is just play/prey drive behavior and you just need to teach the puppy how to deal with those drives appropriately. Some puppies are easier then others and it sounds like yours has a pretty strong drive. This isn't necessarily bad, I believe that it actually bodes well for the future, you can use that high drive to help with any training you do.

 

Humping is a play behavior, especially with puppies. Most people try to not promote this type of play though and older dogs will usually put a stop to inappropriate humping. But for you, if the pup starts to hump the other dog, just grab your puppy and remove it from play. Give a short timeout away from the other dog. Don't scold or do anything bad, the puppy will just learn that play stops when they do that. Timeouts are great for those other behaviors as well. Also, you can work on bite inhibition. If the puppy bites you then yell a high pitched OUCH! (basically a squeak) and ignore the puppy. If the puppy still tries to play then leave the room or give the puppy a timeout. Basically, stopping play is enough of a punishment for most pups.

 

As for vaccines, the internet makes the anti-vaccine movement seem stronger then it is (those people are just very loud). Yes, don't get a vaccine if your dog doesn't need it. Like Lyme disease, if there is no lyme in your area then you can probably skip it. But do get your boosters. For example, with parvo (and probably the others like distemper) your pup isn't considered immune until about 16 weeks of age (the last booster). This is because maternal immunity wears off at different rates for each litter and pup. You should not be done with vaccines at 12.5 weeks. I forget the number, but it is something like only 70% of dogs are considered immune at this age, which still puts your pup at high risk for things like parvo and distemper. I might look those numbers up again later and post a link if I remember.

 

So please for you pups sake keep giving boosters till 16 weeks old, especially since you live in an apartment community.

[Tess's Girl]

Humping does not equal dominance. In fact it is usually just a over-stimulation behavior. It's like he doesn't know what to with himself so he humps. It does sound like he needs socialization so he knows how to interact. Puppy kindergarten is great for manners but not always great for teaching social skills. Do you know someone who has an older dog that is great with puppies? That would be the kind of dog you want to help teach him how to behave around other dogs.

 

Don't allow him to hump. If he starts it remove him from the situation. Every time he tries just remove him and give him a time out.

 

I always used Crow's crate for time-outs. It was the most convenient and it never made him dislike his crate. I think of time outs as chances for them to catch their breath and calm down rather than punishment.

 

As far as boosters, Crow got four 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 weeks, and 16 weeks. He got the rabies at 16 weeks. It was what the vet recommended so that's what I went with.

[Liz P]

It is critical that they get their last vaccines on or after 16 weeks for them to be effective. Please discuss the vaccine schedule with your vet. I prefer to do them every 4 weeks until after 16 weeks old. Rabies really should not be done prior to 16 weeks unless there is a good reason for it.

[Maralynn]

If you google "AAHA canine vaccination guidelines" you can find a good summary of the most recent vaccination guidelines. I use that as a starting point so I know what to ask about during check ups. It's also a good resource if your vet routinely gives yearly core vaccines for everything and you want to go to a schedule where you only give what is really needed for your situation.

[brookitar]

So happy that YOU are happy with your pup. Cute boy.

 

DNA tests: I don't put much faith in them as they are not as reliable as the marketing leads you to believe. Save your money and spend it on toys or lessons.

 

Extreme herding at this age: Sorry, nope. At this age, it is just bratty puppy behavior. When he misbehaves like that, pick him up and give him a time-out. (put him somewhere away from the action for a minute or two). You don't have to say NO. In fact, just pick him up matter-of-factly and deposit him in a room and close the door. I used to use my half-bath since it was convenient to the living room where most of the play happened. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

 

Trying to bite your pants: Similar approach - all action stops (in this case, you stop walking). You can also pick him up and put him 'away' (not in a crate) for a minute or two. Rinse and repeat if necessary.

 

That is true we were going to do more research on the DNA tests some people in our dog classes are doing but I was never sure how reliable they were. Off topic but it some areas in Texas they are starting to require a DNA test for your dog in apartment communities for people who don't pick up their pooh!

 

Yes that is what we are going to have to start doing soon. He starts howling a lot when we place him in another room by himself. We are going to have to work on that too. He is a very reactive puppy lol! I notice he has stopped doing it with our dog Effie so once we get him into puppy socialization classes I think the behavior will be easier to curb since I don't have to worry about a larger dog hurting him. He has gotten a little better with biting the back of my legs...when I tell him no he snaps at the air a few times and barks...what an attitude!

 

Also we have taught him sit and lay down. Next my goal is to teach "leave it"....this command made things so much easier with Effie trying to chew rocks hopefully it will help with him and other dogs.

[brookitar]

Re vaccines - I think it's not the number that they get, but giving them to the pups so they'll be sure to have immunity when the maternal immunity wears off. That could be anywhere from 10 - 16 weeks from what I've read. Personally, I prefer to wait until around 4 m/o for rabies vaccination but timing could be different for others depending on local laws

 

Yes that's what I wasn't clear about since we got Effie at 12 weeks old her vaccines ended around 19-20 weeks at the vet. We are giving him the rabies since its a requirement where we live. There also was a rabid dog in one of the parks close by so it makes me even more paranoid about getting him immune to everything!

[brookitar]

I don't think I would call it puppy dominance, your puppy is too young to truly be showing dominance behavior. This is just play/prey drive behavior and you just need to teach the puppy how to deal with those drives appropriately. Some puppies are easier then others and it sounds like yours has a pretty strong drive. This isn't necessarily bad, I believe that it actually bodes well for the future, you can use that high drive to help with any training you do.

 

Humping is a play behavior, especially with puppies. Most people try to not promote this type of play though and older dogs will usually put a stop to inappropriate humping. But for you, if the pup starts to hump the other dog, just grab your puppy and remove it from play. Give a short timeout away from the other dog. Don't scold or do anything bad, the puppy will just learn that play stops when they do that. Timeouts are great for those other behaviors as well. Also, you can work on bite inhibition. If the puppy bites you then yell a high pitched OUCH! (basically a squeak) and ignore the puppy. If the puppy still tries to play then leave the room or give the puppy a timeout. Basically, stopping play is enough of a punishment for most pups.

 

As for vaccines, the internet makes the anti-vaccine movement seem stronger then it is (those people are just very loud). Yes, don't get a vaccine if your dog doesn't need it. Like Lyme disease, if there is no lyme in your area then you can probably skip it. But do get your boosters. For example, with parvo (and probably the others like distemper) your pup isn't considered immune until about 16 weeks of age (the last booster). This is because maternal immunity wears off at different rates for each litter and pup. You should not be done with vaccines at 12.5 weeks. I forget the number, but it is something like only 70% of dogs are considered immune at this age, which still puts your pup at high risk for things like parvo and distemper. I might look those numbers up again later and post a link if I remember.

 

So please for you pups sake keep giving boosters till 16 weeks old, especially since you live in an apartment community.

 

 

Yes that's what I keep telling my fiance its really going to pay off when he is older. Our border collie doesn't have a high as a drive as some border collies I've seen in her classes or at the park. She is a very mellow girl that just likes hanging out with people.

 

We are going to start doing that for now on. Effie didn't like to play as a puppy so the whole humping and aggressive playing is so new to us. Sometimes I get so nervous with older dogs putting him in his place. We have a few puppy classes coming up this month so I hope it will offer a good opportunity to put a end to the inappropriate humping. I will make sure to give plenty of time outs! Luckily the humping has stopped at home with our Effie but she never puts him or any dog in their place. She just lets him bite her and she whines back if he plays too rough. Effie also tells on Loki when he is doing something bad like chewing or peeing on the carpet...she starts to whine really loud lol.

 

Unfortunately he needs all those vaccines. I have even gotten Lyme disease! I'm glad to know that's not the common belief to not vaccinate. I'll keep vaccinating him until 16 weeks. I just wasn't sure if three shots was the limit since they say its recommended. Rabies vaccine I will get ASAP since there was a dog that had rabies very recently near us. I'm thinking about giving them the Bordetella vaccine this time around since Effie got kennel cough from the dog park awhile back.

 

The scare in Texas now is kissing bugs for people and animals! No vaccine or cure for Chagas disease yet!

[brookitar]

Humping does not equal dominance. In fact it is usually just a over-stimulation behavior. It's like he doesn't know what to with himself so he humps. It does sound like he needs socialization so he knows how to interact. Puppy kindergarten is great for manners but not always great for teaching social skills. Do you know someone who has an older dog that is great with puppies? That would be the kind of dog you want to help teach him how to behave around other dogs.

 

Don't allow him to hump. If he starts it remove him from the situation. Every time he tries just remove him and give him a time out.

 

I always used Crow's crate for time-outs. It was the most convenient and it never made him dislike his crate. I think of time outs as chances for them to catch their breath and calm down rather than punishment.

 

As far as boosters, Crow got four 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 weeks, and 16 weeks. He got the rabies at 16 weeks. It was what the vet recommended so that's what I went with.

 

Yes we have him enrolled in a few puppy classes this month. Also we have a few neighbors that have puppies around his age so they play about once a week. We may let him socialize with my mom's english bulldogs since they are put in a puppy pen at doggy daycare so that the puppies can socialize with gentle older dogs. Our Effie is extremely passive so the humping stopped at home without her putting him in his place like some grouchy older doggies do. The humping problem does seem to be triggered by new situations or unfamiliar dogs.

 

We may have to try timeouts in the kennel. He starts howling very loudly in the bathroom or bedroom so our neighbors might not appreciate us!

 

I'll have to call the vet about the rabies vaccine to see when he can get it. I believe we got Effie's at 14 weeks old...we got her at 12 weeks so her boosters ended a little later after 16 weeks.

[brookitar]

It is critical that they get their last vaccines on or after 16 weeks for them to be effective. Please discuss the vaccine schedule with your vet. I prefer to do them every 4 weeks until after 16 weeks old. Rabies really should not be done prior to 16 weeks unless there is a good reason for it.

 

Yes we are going to ask a vet. We might go to a different vet this time since we have had some trouble in the past. I find it ridiculous paying a $70 exam fee when going in just for boosters/vaccines so we may take him to a vet at a pet supply store that does primarily vaccines/boosters for cheap.

[Journey]

 

Yes that's what I wasn't clear about since we got Effie at 12 weeks old her vaccines ended around 19-20 weeks at the vet. We are giving him the rabies since its a requirement where we live. There also was a rabid dog in one of the parks close by so it makes me even more paranoid about getting him immune to everything!

If I recall it takes about 4 weeks for them to have immunity from when they received the vaccine.

[Chanse]

That is true we were going to do more research on the DNA tests some people in our dog classes are doing but I was never sure how reliable they were. Off topic but it some areas in Texas they are starting to require a DNA test for your dog in apartment communities for people who don't pick up their pooh!

 

Wow, just looked up dog dna tests for apartments and discovered that there are poo dna matching services. That is awesome! I wish my entire city would do this. People that don't clean up after their dogs give the good owners a bad name. Also, poo is one of the main ways virus and parasites infect dogs, so I hate it when people don't clean up after their pets. Oh, and it would be nice to not have to dodge these "poo mines" every time I take my dog for a walk.

 

 

We may have to try timeouts in the kennel. He starts howling very loudly in the bathroom or bedroom so our neighbors might not appreciate us!

 

Yeah, time outs can be tricky. You want to be able to put your dog in a time out but you don't want the dog to be stressed in the place they go. Also, timeouts work best when they are short (30sec to 2min is best, I think I have read that the max is 5min because after that the dog will forget why it was put in the timeout), but you don't want to end the timeout with the pup being super stressed (timeouts should end when the pup is relatively relaxed). The crate works great for this and if you haven't done this already, then I recommend doing a lot of crate training. Make the crate a really good place for your pup. You can probably search the forum for crate training ideas if you need them.