Planning on adopting a rescue puppy this week any good suggestions?

[brookitar]

So my nursing friend's family friend got a stray that appears to be either a Border Collie or Aussie kind of mix that had puppies. I'm not really sure if she is full blood and they don't know what the dad was. The male puppy we are getting will be 7 weeks. We got Effie at about 12 weeks so this seems extremely young. Does anyone know if deworming is appropriate at this age? I am for sure giving him his first booster but I'm not sure if it's appropriate to deworm at this age. Also with pups this young should I have him on a liquid puppy food?

Another thing we are cautious about is his lack of pigment in his eye and face. If he is a mix is the double merle gene still a factor? I'm scared of this puppy possibly having vision or hearing problems.

 

 

These were pictures taken about 2 weeks ago! He is the one with the white face.

 

 

 

 

[brookitar]

Here is more recent photos probably about a week to a week and a half ago. It appears he has gradually filled in some of the white but that eye still looks pink.

 

 

[brookitar]

Sorry yall I have no idea why these pictures keep loading horizontally...I clearly have them saved the right way, vertically.

[Liz P]

Pups should not leave their dam until after 8 weeks old.

 

They should be eating kibble by then.

 

Deworming is generally started at 2 weeks old.

 

He doesn't look double merle, but single merles can still have vision and hearing problems. If you want to be certain, take him for a CERF exam and BAER test.

[brookitar]

That's what I thought so too. I don't want to get a puppy that young. :/ I'll ask if I can get him a week later I hope they will allow me to wait. I haven't had very much experience with tiny puppies...Effie was a big puppy when we got her. Most of the dogs I had growing up were adult rescue dogs.

 

I'll have to find a good puppy kibble until then!

 

Do I get that examination at any vet? Can these problems occur later in adulthood or are they typically born blind/deaf?

[Liz P]

They are normally born blind/deaf. An ophthalmologist would do the CERF exam. A neurologist would do the BAER test.

 

You need to do a slow transition from whatever kibble he has been eating to whatever type you buy. Otherwise, you can get some ugly tummy upset and diarrhea.

[GentleLake]

The pigmentation on eye rims and nose leather can take a while to fill in. Sometimes it never fills in completely, especially on merle dogs. It's just part of the depigmentation that causes the merle, and in itself no cause for alarm.

 

The pup doesn't appear to be a double merle, nor do the others in the pictures. There is some increased risk of deafness in merles over solid colored dogs (there was a recent thread discussing this with stats included) but it's not nearly as high as it is with double merles, where it's actually highly likely. Not sure of risks for vision problems in merles.

 

Is the adult in the first set of pics the mother? If so, she's solid (unless a cryptic merle), so you shouldn't have to worry too much about the pups being doubles.

 

I agree that 8 week with their mother would be preferable, but you can make it work at 7 if you have to.

 

They're all adorable.

[kingfisher7151]

It might just be the sun, but the mom looks red merle to me.

 

The pigment takes a while to fill in. I always laugh at how I think split-faced or white headed dogs are gorgeous, but they can look SO funny and pig eyed when they're pups. But when the eyeliner comes in....ooh la la.

 

Good on you for taking in a rescue! I'm sure he'll be great!

 

Edit: Your pup also looks like he has nearly all of his nose colored in. I suspect he'll have full pigmentation on his nose and eyes.

[GentleLake]

Sorry. Looked more closely at the mother's pic and yes, she does appear to be merle.

[brookitar]

Agh I see yes we will have to do this if we come up with any problems. My friend has seen him and said he is the most active out of the litter and very talkative! There are however almost pure white pups with only a few merle spots I'm wondering if those are more of a double merle gene? You can barely see one of those pups in the picture.

 

I remember Effie ALWAYS had diarrhea every other week as a puppy! Her vet said it was a combination of nerves and allergies. I wasted so much money at the vet every month thinking she had a parasite. Thanks for reminding me of this I need to ask her so I can go on a puppy shopping trip. Going to get him his boosters from Tractor Supply, hopefully a decent dewormer, and some food.

They are normally born blind/deaf. An ophthalmologist would do the CERF exam. A neurologist would do the BAER test.

 

You need to do a slow transition from whatever kibble he has been eating to whatever type you buy. Otherwise, you can get some ugly tummy upset and diarrhea.

[brookitar]

Phew okay that's good to hear. I think what made me so nervous was I saw a Aussie Mini that had the same exact coat at the dog park and was deaf. The owner said he was a double merle but he looked like any other regular merle to me but with a white face!

 

Yes I agree we decided to come get him later this week so he will be 7 1/2 weeks! We are so excited but I know our Effie will be so happy to have a companion. She loves puppies!

 

Isn't her coat odd? Its not like a true blue color but in between a red and a blue? The other puppies have a more brown pigment compared to the male. The other two females have the exact same coat color as their mother. Here's another picture....you can really tell his pigment filled in more in a little as a week. It's going to be so interesting trying to figure out what the dad was as they grow up since they look so border/aussie already.

 

 

!

 

 

 

 

The pigmentation on eye rims and nose leather can take a while to fill in. Sometimes it never fills in completely, especially on merle dogs. It's just part of the depigmentation that causes the merle, and in itself no cause for alarm.

 

The pup doesn't appear to be a double merle, nor do the others in the pictures. There is some increased risk of deafness in merles over solid colored dogs (there was a recent thread discussing this with stats included) but it's not nearly as high as it is with double merles, where it's actually highly likely. Not sure of risks for vision problems in merles.

 

Is the adult in the first set of pics the mother? If so, she's solid (unless a cryptic merle), so you shouldn't have to worry too much about the pups being doubles.

 

I agree that 8 week with their mother would be preferable, but you can make it work at 7 if you have to.

 

They're all adorable.

 

 

Sorry. Looked more closely at the mother's pic and yes, she does appear to be merle.

 

[brookitar]

Thank you we are so excited to get him. I think we have decided to name him Loki so it will complement our female's name Effie. Their eyes do look very funny especially the almost all white ones! I noticed that...I hope he does get some eyeliner it really does bring out those blue eyes!

 

We have been planning to rescue a dog for a few months now. We were approved by a Border Collie rescue in Texas....they even came by and approved us after a home check. They said they would send more photos of the dog we were interested in (I wanted a four year old male) and they never responded back unfortunately. Turns out they adopted him out two weeks later at a random adoption event. I'm assuming the drive was the factor since they are not located in our city but it looks like it was meant to be. At least we get to give a cute mutt a home.

 

 

It might just be the sun, but the mom looks red merle to me.

 

The pigment takes a while to fill in. I always laugh at how I think split-faced or white headed dogs are gorgeous, but they can look SO funny and pig eyed when they're pups. But when the eyeliner comes in....ooh la la.

 

Good on you for taking in a rescue! I'm sure he'll be great!

 

Edit: Your pup also looks like he has nearly all of his nose colored in. I suspect he'll have full pigmentation on his nose and eyes.

[brookitar]

A random question but can you tell at this age if they will have a rough coat?

[GentleLake]

It's possible the 2 with a lot of whit are double merles. But it's also possible to have heterozygous merles with a lot of white, too. It can make things complicated.

 

For a merle to be homozygous, that is a double merle, it has to receive the merle allele from both parents. For this to happen, both parents have to be merles. They almost always have hearing and/or vision problems.

 

A heterozygous merle has only one merle parent, so only one copy of the merle allele.

 

I bred a litter of pups from a bitch who threw a lot of white in her pups. The sire was blue merle. 2 of the 5 pups had a lot of white on them and could have been confused for double merles, but they weren't, and they didn't have the hearing and vision problems associated with double merles.

 

In your picture, the darker merle pup appears to be a blue merle, i.e. a black dog with the merle modifier. The others look like they might be red merles. It's a little hard to tell in the pictures for sure.

 

Their colors will intensify as they grow older.

[brookitar]

Yes it is so hard to tell. I guess the only way one could find out is genetic testing. Wish we knew what the dad was the merle gene does get complicated!

Is the merle gene a recessive or dominant trait in dogs? When some people call it the "lethal white" gene is that a mistake or do some double merles actually die at birth?

 

Its very saddening when irresponsible people intentionally breed two merles.

When we were going through border collie, aussie, sheltie, and collie websites it wasn't uncommon to see a double merle for adoption. There was a poor collie who was deaf and blind poor thing.

 

I can see how that can be confusing! The more white in the double merle coat is so pretty (when its the normal single merle). Did those puppies get "eyeliner" eventually around their pink eyes?

 

Sorry the pictures are not the best quality. Are the red ones considered tri color merles since they have brown over the eye and under the face? We are getting the darker merle he was the only male. We were told its not wise to have two female dogs lol.

[GentleLake]

Merle is a dominant trait. It's not actually a gene, but an allele, an alternate form of the color gene.

 

"Lethal white" is a rather controversial term. It was borrowed from horses and is indeed lethal in foals. In horses it's an autosomal recessive.

 

In dogs it's come to mean heterozygous for merle, i.e. 2 copies of a dominant color allele. Most are born overly marked white and most are deaf and/or with abnormal eyes. But it's not fatal as it is in horses.

 

IIRC, my pups did have eye rim pigmentation, but it wasn't 100% in all the eye rims. Some retained a bit of pink.

 

The pup in the rear of the first picture you posted (in your first post) is a tri. Can't see enough of the others to tell for sure. But with white faces there may be no tan on the face, but there could be on the legs.

[mum24dog]

Don't you mean "homozygous for merle"?

[kingfisher7151]

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but my gut tells me that there aren't any double merle pups. Frequently (not always) the MM's just look....doubley. There's something about the color placement, and oftentimes there are abnormalities to the eyes and pupils. It's definitely possible that the two whiter ones are MM, but I just don't get that feeling. I think it's also fairly unlikely that there's a random merle dog roaming around. Not impossible, but unlikely.

 

Even on the off chance that those pups are MM, they appear to be thriving. The foster family likely would have noticed any vision or hearing problems by now.

 

Can you tell if mama is white factored? That might give a bit more insight to why there's so much white. But like GentleLake said, some females just throw a lot of white without being obviously white factored.

[GentleLake]

Don't you mean "homozygous for merle"?

 

<Sigh> Yes.

 

I was too tired to be comprehensible.

[Olathe]

I just thought I would chime in on the "double merle." I fostered a double merle Aussie once (8 week old pup). He was almost completely white except for 2 very small blue merle patches. He was deaf, and had star burst pupils, but his vision was fine. His litter mates did not look like the typical "double merle" and were normal colored Aussie's, but both parents were merles.

[Maxi]

I just thought I would chime in on the "double merle." I fostered a double merle Aussie once (8 week old pup). He was almost completely white except for 2 very small blue merle patches. He was deaf, and had star burst pupils, but his vision was fine. His litter mates did not look like the typical "double merle" and were normal colored Aussie's, but both parents were merles.

If you mate 2 heterozygote Merles together, then statistically, a quarter of the litters will be double (homozygous) merle, a half of the litter will be carry a single merle (Mm) copy, while a quarter of the litter will not carry the Merle mutation at all.

 

Obviously, this is just how the stats will play out over a number of litters and the outcome for any specific litter can be vary from this. So it is possible with a litter of 4 (say) to have 3 'single' Merles and 1 'double' Merle.

 

If you find these genetics crosses hard to fathom, just imagine tossing 2 coins at the same time and seeing how often you get 2 heads, 2 tails or 1 of each. A dog carries 2 copies of most genes (including Merle) and he/she inherits one of these from each parent. This is why the "2 coin toss" analogy works well.

 

Using a double Merle (or non Merle) dog in a 'colour' breeding programme is like switching one of the coins so that it is 'double' headed/tailed. Unscrupulous breeders may sometime use a double Merle in their breeding programme, because if they cross this poor dog to a non Merle one, then all of the offspring is guaranteed to carry one copy of the Merle mutation.

[brookitar]

Merle is a dominant trait. It's not actually a gene, but an allele, an alternate form of the color gene.

 

"Lethal white" is a rather controversial term. It was borrowed from horses and is indeed lethal in foals. In horses it's an autosomal recessive.

 

In dogs it's come to mean heterozygous for merle, i.e. 2 copies of a dominant color allele. Most are born overly marked white and most are deaf and/or with abnormal eyes. But it's not fatal as it is in horses.

 

IIRC, my pups did have eye rim pigmentation, but it wasn't 100% in all the eye rims. Some retained a bit of pink.

 

The pup in the rear of the first picture you posted (in your first post) is a tri. Can't see enough of the others to tell for sure. But with white faces there may be no tan on the face, but there could be on the legs.

 

That is very interesting. Its funny how its the white coat can affect many different kinds of animals. Random but my friend had a white ferret that was deaf and blind...he would often scream when startled!

 

I think this boy is getting what you are describing some pigmentation but he still has a tiny rim of pink! We saw the females today and they are definitely tri merles! Very beautiful!

[brookitar]

So update we did end up getting our puppy at a little over 7 weeks old. The mother we saw in person finally is definitely a red merle border collie! Unfortunately the two white pups were in fact double merles. One has vision in one eye and the other is completely blind. As far as hearing goes its hard to tell if they have problems. Our boy we adopted is luckily all intact and very active! This leads us to believe Loki might be a pure breed border collie...or a border/aussie cross. Luckily the couple who rescued the pregnant border collie are going to keep the puppy that is the most impaired.

 

Also the previous photos I posted of Loki he appeared to be a blue merle...his coat changed to red! A huge difference!

 

Here is our day so far. The puppy is on a semi wet kibble diet we are weaning off. We are trying a brand the rescue group recommended called "Fromm". Effie and Loki are playing with each other right now.

 

Loki tried humping Effie is that normal for this age lol?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Olathe]

Congratulations! He is ADORABLE! It's too bad the litter did end up being double merle, but I'm glad they're going to have good homes and people to take care of them.

[brookitar]

Thank you we are so happy to have made the decision. Our Effie is extremely happy I don't think I've ever seen her this happy before! Yes I just hope the last double merle can find a home. Poor gal! I heard they can be trained somewhat through smell...I just hope she isn't deaf. The completely blind one was very heart breaking...she seemed very disoriented I think she may have had hearing problems too.

 

So strange I really think this was meant to be. Just by chance the owner was an hour away and on the street adjacent to our family lake house! Small world! Completely unplanned!