Bobbing tails?

[Dragoon 45]

From time to time I check out Pet Finder to see if any B/C's are up for adoption in my area, as I have folks asking me all the time where they can find one. They see me with my two boys doing Frisbee or Agility and so their interest is piqued. I have actually got, I think I am up to six now, dogs adopted that way from some local rescues.

 

Last of couple of months I have seen more than a few supposedly pure bred B/C pups that have their tails bobbed, it seems to be more common in the Ozarks than in other areas, but still you see them from just about everywhere. Now in some cases they could very well be Aussies that somehow got labeled as B/C's, but that is not the case where papers are available on the dog as some rescues state they have to prove the breed.

 

My question here is what gives with bobbing a B/C's tail? It was unheard of when I was a kid on the ranch, as the handler wanted that tail up to give him a clue where the dog was in heavy grass/brush. About the only case I can think of is if the tail is severely injured and then might need to be bobbed off, but other than that I can't think of another good reason to do that.

 

Is this just the practices of a few breeders for whatever reason?

 

Just curious about this so if someone asks me I can tell them why it was done before they look at the dog.

 

Thanks.

[TEC]

My understanding is that in the west some cowboys like a bobbed tail to prevent injury working cattle, where tails can be stepped-on and harmed in other ways. Of course a tail is another place to collect thistles/burs/stickers and mud, making a bobbed dog a little easier to keep groomed. Have seen a few bobbed Border Collies, but not many.

 

I have a hard time reading a dog that has an altered tail. The tail is one window to a dog's mind, and for a Border Collie the way the tail is carried is indicator of whether it is tuned-in to the task.

 

In below picture Josie has stickers clinging to her. Must have been at the beginning of the job. Burs/stickers were bad for several weeks last summer, thus she was brushed regularly. -- TEC

 

Click to Enlarge

 

[Pam Wolf]

Must be a new trend. I trialed many years ago in the Ozark region and didn't seen bob tailed BC's but I would see them in the northwestern US.

 

As TEC said, some of the people who use dogs in feedlots bob the tail to prevent it being broken or in the case of long haired dogs to keep them 'cleaner; as the tail can pick up a lot of mud. There must be a local breeder who is doing it and if they are rescues, they are likely Aussies or mixes of BC or Aussie

[mum24dog]

Many of the BCs I know mix with horses on a regular basis and I only know of one that lost the end of a tail through being trodden on. It was a pup when it happened so presumably hadn't yet learned to keep out of the way.

 

I know of one that had its tail amputated because it kept chasing it but that was around 12 years ago and any vet that did that now would have some very serious questions to answer from the professional body.

 

Neither BCs nor Aussies here are included in the list of dogs where there may be an exemption from the docking ban if the dog is intended to work for a living. Almost no working Aussies here and I've never come across a feedlot like in the US.

[toney]

I've known a couple of bob tailed border collies. Both were named...Bob. One lost his tail shortly after birth when the new mother chewed it off. The other had his tail kicked by a cow up against a working chute and crushed it. Neurological and physical damage led to a surgical docking. Haven't known anyone to do it on a regular basis though.

[TEC]

I asked a friend a while ago the reason some farm dogs have docked tails, and her explanation was that when dogs ride in the horse trailer, they won't get their tails stepped-on. All the farm dogs I have seen ride in the pickup bed or the cab, so that doesn't make any better sense to me now, than it did then.

 

I can identify with locating a dog in tall grass/vegetation by its tail.

 

It's St. Paddy's Day. Have a happy one. Everybody is Irish on March 17th.

 

May those who love us, love us.
And for those who don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if He doesn't turn their hearts,
May He turn their ankles,
So we'll know them by their limping.

 

I do not know who originally said the above, but it sounds something like an Irishman would say. Tip a Smithwick's in honor of your ancestors today. -- TEC

[Jeanne Joy]

A blog post I did on docked tails that may be of interest to some:

 

http://allaboutaussies.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/why-are-aussie%E2%80%99s-tails-docked/

 

jeanne

[Dragoon 45]

I mentioned the Ozarks as a lot of dogs come into Oklahoma, where I am, from there. I have just been seeing a lot of bobbed tailed dogs that are billed as pure bred BC's on some of the adoption sites lately. Rescues claim they have the papers for them from the previous owners. No explanation is given why they had their tails bobbed or why they are in rescue.

 

Many years ago, I was told a story that I have no way to know if it was true or not. An old time Rancher told me that some Ranchers bobbed the tails on any BC's that would not herd instead of destroying them. If the tails were bobbed they were rejects from herding breeders essentially. As I never saw a dog that had that done to them for the reasons mentioned, I always figured that was just a tall tail told to a young hand on the ranch.

 

I can clearly see the need to amputate a tail if it is severely injured. But having watched BC's in action from a very early age doing what they were bred to do, it seems to me that bobbing a tail reduces the dogs abilities. If for no other reason the tail greatly aids in maintaining their balance during sudden direction changes while working.

[juliepoudrier]

If a dog is working in brush wouldn't the tail be down and not really visible anyway?

 

FWIW, I've always heard the "prevent risk of damage when working cattle, especially in close quarters" explanation.

 

J

[mum24dog]

I know more dogs that have been kicked in the head by livestock than have had their tails injured.

[geonni banner]

Perhaps these dogs are Mc Nabs?

 

Or maybe someone thinks Mc Nabs would be special, so they dock tails so they can call them Mc Nabs?

 

Or someone thinks they won't be wanted as "Mc Nabs," so they call them Border Collies.

 

I knew someone once who had a "papered" Border Collie with no tail - not even a stump.

[juliepoudrier]

Mum24dogs,

Do feedlots exist in the UK? I think the issue is specific to working cattle in tight spaces. I don't agree with it, but do see some logic in it.

 

J.

[Dragoon 45]

When you call the dog in heavy brush/tall grass (almost like the "look at me command" used in a lot of obedience training) the head comes up and normally the tail comes up too. I have known quite a few ranchers who trained their dogs to do just that so they could keep track of their dogs in those conditions. That white tail tip is a much more visible at distance than a lot people think.

[alligande]

Mum24dogs,

Do feedlots exist in the UK? I think the issue is specific to working cattle in tight spaces. I don't agree with it, but do see some logic in it.

J.

There is no UK equivalent to the large western feedlots. Cattle will get worked in tight spaces when they are brought in for the winter, and moved between buildings and trucks.

[Gideon's girl]

Many years ago, I was told a story that I have no way to know if it was true or not. An old time Rancher told me that some Ranchers bobbed the tails on any BC's that would not herd instead of destroying them. If the tails were bobbed they were rejects from herding breeders essentially. As I never saw a dog that had that done to them for the reasons mentioned, I always figured that was just a tall tail told to a young hand on the ranch.

Considering that these would be mature adult dogs, amputating a tail is major surgery and I wouldn't think that ranchers would be likely to spend that kind of money on a worthless dog, so I'd put this in the B.S. category.

[mum24dog]

Considering that these would be mature adult dogs, amputating a tail is major surgery and I wouldn't think that ranchers would be likely to spend that kind of money on a worthless dog, so I'd put this in the B.S. category.

BS is the default position for most people making excuses for cutting off dogs' tails ime.

[Gideon's girl]

Too true! But even more so when the dog is mature.

[geonni banner]

I did a lot of research on this topic recently, and what I found resonated with my experience working in veterinary clinics. If you are willing to consider the idea that not all tail-docking is a bad thing, read on:

 

http://pedanticmystic.blogspot.com/2014/02/what-about-tail-docking.html

 

Just for the record, I see no reason to dock (or crop) a dog for cosmetic reasons, or to bring it in line with an appearance breed standard. But there are other reasons...

[mum24dog]

I did a lot of research on this topic recently, and what I found resonated with my experience working in veterinary clinics. If you are willing to consider the idea that not all tail-docking is a bad thing, read on:

 

http://pedanticmystic.blogspot.com/2014/02/what-about-tail-docking.html

 

Just for the record, I see no reason to dock (or crop) a dog for cosmetic reasons, or to bring it in line with an appearance breed standard. But there are other reasons...

 

Always consider the source of your information though. If you use a pro docking source you will get the excuses.

 

Before the ban was passed here the record of other countries that had had a ban in force for long enough to establish a pattern was examined and the claims of serious risk of tail injury in working dogs was found to be unsubstantiated.

 

The pro dockers lost the argument.

 

Which breed suffers most tail injuries? IME the greyhound, and who has ever advocated docking them? Or maybe they are docked in the US?

[Gideon's girl]

The only dog I've ever seen that had a problem with a broken tail was my Saluki. A rolling chair went over the tip of his tail and he lost circulation and we had to amputate about 3-4 inches off the tip of it. He still had plenty of tail and you couldn't tell that he had lost some, but he never planted his hind end behind somebody on a roller chair again. The Saluki standard calls for a long tail.

[geonni banner]

The tails with problems that I've seen weren't usually broken. They were usually just a bloody pulp - hematomas were common - and sometimes they even had gangrene. More often than not the dog was still obliviously bashing it's tail against things. Usually Great Danes were the worst. Have seen the odd Greyhound too, but back in the ancient times when I was "Teching" (pre AHT) times, there just weren't as many Greyhounds around. It hadn't become politically correct to have a retired track dog yet, At least, not in my neck of the woods.

 

Dogs with heavily furred tails didn't seem to have the problem - padded, I guess. And dogs with thick muscular tails like Labs didn't seem to have the problem. It was the breeds with thin, ropy tails, and short, fine coats.

 

I just couldn't get over how a dog with a pulverized tail would keep on bashing that damaged flesh against walls, etc. It was like they were not making the connection between the wagging and the pain.

[Gideon's girl]

I don't think those particular dogs are experiencing pain when they do that. They have spinal cord inside the tail bones obviously, but I'm not sure how many nerve endings they have outside the spinal column or what type. I know they feel pressure because they definitely notice when you step on their tail, but I've seen many dogs that didn't seem aware when you did other less drastic things to the tip of their tail.

[Jumpin Boots]

Renoir is a perfect example of what appears to be a purebred border collie with no tail. And I mean NO tail, not even a nub

 

When people ask we call him a McNab. We often get question of if he's a border collie/aussie mix, but b/c we aren't aussie people we choose McNab instead He's a rescue and we love him so it really doesn't matter but people like labels

 

I know McNab's are getting pretty popular in the competitive Frisbee world, I wonder if this accounts for an increase in dogs looking like this?

 

 

 

 

(ETA photo #3)