Is this normal?

[ncsugrad54]

Hi. I noticed that when I taught my BC "stick'em up" (sit pretty) that it seems like she sits really odd. It seems like she sits very wide and low. Is this normal?

[gcv-border]

My dog looks very similar when he "sits pretty". I never thought anything was wrong with his posture/stance. I always thought it was 'just him'. Maybe I am wrong. Now I am curious. Will be watching to see what responses you get.

[mum24dog]

Seems to me she's just worked out a way to balance in such an unnatural position.

 

The left hind leg sticking out a bit sitting normally could be a sign of a problem but most likely isn't so unless she starts showing any lameness or reluctance to put full weight on that leg I wouldn't worry about it.

[Gideon's girl]

If you are worried about hip issues, watch for a hip sway at the walk. If this is the only thing you are seeing, then I would say that he does what mine does and widens his base to balance. Mine is long and narrow and that was the most difficult position to teach because he had such a hard time balancing.

[gcv-border]

To add to Gideon's girl's post: my dog is also somewhat longer-backed. He could not attain the 'sit pretty' position until he was close to 2. (But I have to add that I didn't train it very frequently.) I feel that part of his problem was that he did not have the core strength to hold the position.

About longer-backed dogs: My family had 2 dachshunds while I was growing up and then my mother had another one after I graduated college. ALL of those dogs were taught to 'sit up', and they could hold that position for at least 5-10 minutes while we were eating dinner. They were great beggers and were reinforced by treats thrown from the table. I think that sitting up was great for their back muscles too as none of these dogs ever had a back issue (and I am pretty sure they came from BYBs).

[ncsugrad54]

Ok thanks guys! I'll try to pay more attention when she walks, but I don't think she has a sway. I didn't realize it was that difficult to teach. I know they say online that their muscles have to build up to hold them up. Wow- 10 mins! She can only hold it for about 2 seconds.

[mum24dog]

Is this still a common thing to teach dogs in North America? It used to be here decades ago for pet owners but not really now, or at least amongst the people I know who are mostly serious sports competitors.

 

There must be less stressful ways of strengthening back muscles if that is the intention.

[alligande]

Yes it is a very common trick Pam.

[gcv-border]

In my example of the dachshunds sitting up for extended periods of time, it WAS decades ago. I know it ages me, but this occurred in the late 60's into the 70's. Except for training to sit up, our dogs were never asked to sit for extended times. They voluntarily sat up at mealtimes (in fact, we sometimes told them to stop it) since they knew that treats were forthcoming. (Again, we were oblivious to the reinforcement theories so common today.)

 

There was never any intention to build up back/core muscles since we didn't even know about such things 'back in the day'. It is just in hindsight that I have mused that the strength from 'sitting up' may have helped the dachshunds avoid the back injuries common in the breed.

 

Back then, the 'sit up' was one of the "oh wow" tricks. Tricks have evolved dramatically since then.

[mum24dog]

Given that lumbosacral problems are not uncommon in agility dogs, putting unnatural stress on that area isn't something I would do as a rule, although I admit that my squarely built and very rigid terrier probably wouldn't come to any harm.

[alligande]

My large and lanky dog can stand on his hind legs much easier than he can do this, there is a lot of reference to it being a strengthening exercise in US agility, I think but I would not want to be quoted on it that Sylvia Trkman also says its a strengthener. I tried to get Rievaulx to do it but it was obvious he did not want to so I was not going to force it as it did not look comfortable.

[gcv-border]

My canine rehab vet has also commented that sitting up and standing from a sitting position can be a strengthener. Just like any exercise, don't overdo it. I may (when I remember) ask my dog to sit pretty, then raise up on his hind legs, for 2-4 reps for no more than once or twice a week -- and there can be a few weeks that pass when I don't request that behavior.

 

I also think that other exercises are important for building muscle tone in the core and adjoining areas. I wouldn't rely on just one exercise - too limiting.

[mum24dog]

My large and lanky dog can stand on his hind legs much easier than he can do this, there is a lot of reference to it being a strengthening exercise in US agility, I think but I would not want to be quoted on it that Sylvia Trkman also says its a strengthener. I tried to get Rievaulx to do it but it was obvious he did not want to so I was not going to force it as it did not look comfortable.

 

ST has quite a view opinions that go against conventional professional advice. It's one thing to do it with her Pyrenean Shepherds, quite another with her collies.

 

I don't think encouraging a dog to walk on hind legs is a great idea either. Dogs are quadrupeds not bipeds and their spines, hips and hind legs are not designed to walk upright.

 

I did do a quick search for core strengthening exercises and found nothing that mentioned sitting up, but I'll take your word for it. I imagine strengthening exercises will be useful if a dog doesn't have the opportunity for much normal off lead running (as discussed) elsewhere, but not really needed for the averagely fit agility dog.

[Gideon's girl]

My canine rehab vet has also commented that sitting up and standing from a sitting position can be a strengthener.

I was told to do this with a dog that had very bad hip dysplasia, but excellent muscle tone, to keep the muscles supporting the hips strong.

[alligande]

I did do a quick search for core strengthening exercises and found nothing that mentioned sitting up, but I'll take your word for it. I imagine strengthening exercises will be useful if a dog doesn't have the opportunity for much normal off lead running (as discussed) elsewhere, but not really needed for the averagely fit agility dog.

I know lots of people who do lots of on the ball work, but I am with you Pam, other than swiming there is nothing better than off leash running, over the years of watching my dogs leap and twist, run over uneven surfaces and all the cool things they do I can't imagine there is a better way to get a dog fit. We have noticed that Rievaulx is not as fit or as muscled as he was when we had two active dogs, together they just pushed harder, even just in the garden they wrestled and gave each other a work out, on his own he has bouts of running hard and then waits for his slow two legged companions.

[ncsugrad54]

Well I don't want to get slammed on this, but I am not doing it for strength exercises altho I have been told it helps strengthen muscles. I am teaching her as a trick. I currently don't have the money to do herding with her, so this is my backup during winter. She seems to like trick training.