rushdoggie Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 So, I met an interesting looking dog the other day at a fun match. He was pretty tall, blue merle with a lot of white on him including all over his belly, up the front of his back legs and onto his back and hips. He had the traditional markings of a white collared dog including white face blaze, neck and chest and tail tip. But he was not a purebred collie, or BC, or Aussie. He reminded me a lot of some BCxLab dogs I knew in size and shape. There was no BC or Aussie in his silhouette and he didn't really move like a herding breed. But being blue merle and white factored I wondered if it would be possible for a Lab cross to make a puppy with merle and white factored? Its not important, I was just wondering. The owner has no idea what he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekah Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Depends what the Lab was crossed with I think! I think it's possible. Merle, being dominant, can show up in a lot of breeds that are fairly far removed from Aussies/Shelties/Catahoulas/Koolies/etc. I'm less familiar with how white is transmitted genetically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 The Catahoulas around here have a vaguely Lab look to them, like a leggy teenage Lab with hound ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted January 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Maybe...but Catahoulas are pretty uncommon around here, and I have never seen one that was 50% white in that classic dutch pattern... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Merle x merle Cat will produce those markings. That dog could also have been a mix of mixed breed parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelin Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yeah I'd bet a mutt of a few breeds. Merle is so easy to pass along since it's dominant (and also a lot of the time bred for) so there doesn't have to be a merle breed very near for the color to stick around. That's how merle has snuck its way into so many breeds like chihuahuas, cockers, pit bulls, schnauzers, huskies, etc recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted January 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 He's probably major mutt, just seemed weird for mix-y mix to be both merle and white factored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 I guess I think of merle and white factored as going together, most merle I see are both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 My first merle BC wasn't white factored. Can't recall offhand if his grand-daughter that I had was or not, and can't get to my pics right now. I think maybe she was, but not more than the average Irish spotting and some white up her back legs. And I've seen a lot of merle Aussies that aren't white factored, so, no, I wouldn't necessarily think of them as going hand in hand. ETA: I'm talking about regular merles, of course, and not double merles, which are overly marked white. But that's not the same thing as white factoring. As an aside, my merle was bred to a white factored dog who threw a lot of overly marked white pups, so there were a couple very white factored merles in that litter. They looked like double merles, but were not, and didn't have the hearing or vision problems associated with double merles. But that wasn't typical of merles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 No, merle is not linked with the Irish spotting gene. In fact, it's much better if merles have no white markings. It makes them less likely to have hearing and vision problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Sunshine Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 HI, I am new to BC boards. I also had a question about color. I constantly get "no way, is he a BC" Well, yes he is. I read the article about white BCs on this site and have google and seen other "White" BCs, but none are even close to mine. I read in the article about a particular family of BCs that produced the white (non-merle) coloring and was wondering if mine fit this family. here he is stalking a cow and him playing in the snow at Christmas. I will share the story on how I adopted him in a separate post, but I got him from the Humane Society. His eyes are greenish-amber, with a blue square in his right eye. BTW, he is the BEST DOG EVER! Thanks for looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Don't know what you mean by, "...seen other "White" BCs, but none are even close to mine." But this page has several dogs of this or similar color phases. http://www.bordercolliemuseum.org/BCLooks/PatWhite/PatWhite.html Just wondering... Why does it matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Yeah, lots of border collies around like that now. It used to be that the white (often referred to as overly marked white) dogs were culled at birth. The old time shepherds didn't like white dogs. I suspect it was because of the increased incidence of deafness. But people are loosing that prejudice and we're seeing more and more of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Sunshine Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 It really does not matter, it just makes me speculate about where mine actually came from. He was listed as a special needs dog, because i was told he would never run because he was hit by a car and has plates in both front legs and more than 27 screws in each. Also, he had been hit previously in both front legs and they had healed. He was to be put down according to the records, but at the humane society shift change, the vet that reviewed his file chose to operate. They said he was brought in as a stray. He was 9 months old. He can run like crazy, really fast and provided with no herding training he seems to have a natural ability for it. Though I also do not have any experience, I do understand a little about herding dogs abilities. Also, what I mean about not seeing other BCs like him is that his head and most of his body is white with no color in his tail and feet. his eyes, ears and most of his nose is pink. Given that he is a purebread BC. I wonder if he was part of a ranch litter and purposefully "dumped" due to his coloring. Also, he is smooth coat which throws a lot of people. Most BCs that are not bred for herding are rough coat. Glad to know people are losing the prejudices. He is a very calm dog, doesn't like water or toys very much and REALLY HATES KENNELS. But he loves to run!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 If he came in as a stray to a shelter how do you know he is purebred? Were his owners found and they didn't want him back? Not that it matters, but your statement caught my eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Sunshine Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 oh, I know because i did a DNA test...he was listed as mixed breed, but I wanted to be aware of any possible health issues associated with different breeds, so DNA test made sense. Plus, I have had many dogs, Siberian Husky, Golden, Aussie and spaniels but have never really been around BCs. So, when some of his personality/traits started to show I wanted to learn more about what to expect and how to bring out the best in him. He was very shy, well more like non-trusting for a while and then I had him in an unhealthy people envioroment for awhile. I do not mean it was a situation where he was physically harmed but an unheathly relationship, that become violent and He (Ky- my BC) and I left. He started opening up and he helped me weather MY storm. He is now, truly my best friend and we go many places together. I have also learned to trust him. If he doesn't want to be somewhere or around someone, I listen ;-) He is a much better judge of character than I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 So, I met an interesting looking dog the other day at a fun match. He was pretty tall, blue merle with a lot of white on him including all over his belly, up the front of his back legs and onto his back and hips. He had the traditional markings of a white collared dog including white face blaze, neck and chest and tail tip. But he was not a purebred collie, or BC, or Aussie. He reminded me a lot of some BCxLab dogs I knew in size and shape. There was no BC or Aussie in his silhouette and he didn't really move like a herding breed. But being blue merle and white factored I wondered if it would be possible for a Lab cross to make a puppy with merle and white factored? Its not important, I was just wondering. The owner has no idea what he is. Here's 2 dogs - B&W is Catahoula x American Bulldog Merle is all Catahoula Both are clearly white-factored - can't tell if the blue has a white muzzle or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 For what it's worth, I have a purebred merle border collie that is definitely not white factored. She has a white collar, a little bit of white on her nose, white up to elbows on her front legs and just white feet on her back legs. So it is possible to have border collies that are merle and not white factored. Her hearing and eyes are tested as normal as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Sunshine Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 you guys have beautiful dogs as well. I absolutely love this breed, it is so varied, not a single one looks a like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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