New Border Collie Owner

[erin_ohagan]

I decide when we're done.

I need to remember this!

[GentleLake]

I need to remember this!

 

Yes, but also remember that training sessions for a puppy shouldn't be very long, maybe 5 minutes. Even grown dogs get tired of training if you drag the sessions out too long.

 

All the good trainers I've known have said that frequent, short training sessions are by far better than longer ones.

[Oko]

When Feist walks away from a training session, it usually means I've not been minding the time and gone past five minutes. Definitely try not to go on for too long. You can also stretch it out if you take mini breaks within it, for belly rubs/tug/something that doesn't have their mind working for 30 seconds - a couple minutes, then back to the task.

 

That being said, if she does lose interest or walk away, I let her and walk away too. It will be punishment enough to her for the training session to have ended because of her, as she enjoys training time and gets lots of good stuff from it, as well as interaction with me. I'm not a big believer in 'You must end on a good note'.

[mum24dog]

I'm not a big believer in 'You must end on a good note'.

I am, but not if it means plugging away until the dog does whatever I'm trying to train.

 

End on something really easy for the dog that it knows really well.

[GentleLake]

^^Yes, exactly!

[Shetlander]

My motto when training a dog, especially a pup, is to always leave them wanting more.

[juliepoudrier]

Puppies are like human babies--they need lots of down/sleep time. I have no hesitation popping a pup in a crate for a few hours for quiet chewing, sleep, whatever. Most of the time they just end up sleeping. And no, I didn't work them up to it. When a new pup comes home, it learns what a crate is. The crate will be next to my bed or out in the house wherever I might be (depending), but since the pup is crated overnight from the start (with me getting up for potty breaks in the middle of the night as needed), the pup just accepts it as normal.

 

ETA: I realize yours is no longer a pup, but I would treat even an adolescent that way. I brought a rescue home from the finals. He had never been in a house. I brought him in (stairs were interesting) and popped him in a crate out in the middle of where all the action is. That's his spot. He willingly goes in, even though as far as I know he'd never been crated before (but had lived in a barn stall). He was 10 months old at the time. He now gets some limited time loose in the house and all the free time he wants in the yard and when I let him in, he goes straight to his crate.

 

J.

[Kelleybean]

Be careful about letting him rip the stuffing out of toys. Dogs can swallow it and get intestinal blockages. I'd suggest raw bones or antlers instead. Also, if you play ball, make sure it's a smooth ball like a chuck-it, not a tennis ball, to save his teeth!

[erin_ohagan]

Just a quick update on the crate training. It's been going well. Saturday she was able to be in there for a little over 3 hours with seemingly no problems. I hung out outside for about 10 minutes to see if she panicked and she didn't utter a peep....so, I *think* the crating is going well. I do notice, however, she does either drool or pant a lot when she's in there. When I took her out she had lots of wet fur down her front. This *could* also be from the frozen Kong, but I suspect drool. She still readily goes in for treats and I keep randomly reinforcing this by giving her a treat when she goes in after I've asked and just letting her come right back out. She must sort of like the crate because she does not like the cats to go inside it. Today we move the length up to 3.5 hours.

 

Regarding our training sessions....it's hard to end on my terms, even with a super easy trick that she knows if she's upside down mugging for a belly scratch. So, I'm trying hard to pay attention to her body language and end just before she gets to this point. I even set a timer! From our obedience training, I know that shaping a behavior can take time, so I definitely do not plug away until she's got it down. I try to mix in training a new behavior with the ones she already knows. Like "sit, down, up...(new behavior spinning counter-clockwise) twirl!" And then we might practice twirl a few times before going back to the ones she knows.

 

Her stuffed animals are only given to her when I am there to supervise. She definitely loves pulling stuffing out of them. I just don't want her to think that because it's OK to de-stuff a toy that it's also OK to de-stuff my chair. I know dogs don't generalize super well, but am I inadvertently encouraging this?

 

Thanks again, all!

[Sue R]

Pulling stuffing can still result in issues even if you are watching. As you say, it may teach the dog that de-stuffing is okay. More than that, a de-stuffer may still be swallowing "some" fibers and those indigestible bits can accumulate and cause problems. My young dog was doing some occasional dry-heaving until one day when he hacked up a huge wad of fibers and other bits of indigestible material. If it had passed into his intestine, he would have had a serious and life-threatening blockage.

 

Drooling could be due to anxiety but your youngster may just need some time to adjust to crating so I'd give it some time.

[GentleLake]

Well, when you figure out how to teach a dog how to not de-stuff their toys, please pass that tip on to me! My dogs love to kill and then eviscerate their stuffed toys, and I haven't figured out to teach them to play with them without destroying them.

 

That said, none have de-stuffed the furniture. I guess the difference is that while they were still in the learning stage, I never even allowed them to put their mouths on the furniture. The lurcher was the hardest one; she did manage to chew the edges of some dog beds before she was broken of the habit, but she was firmly corrected every time she'd start to chew a dog bed (as she was for chewing shoelaces, or any other inappropriate object), but never corrected for playing with a toy. Even if she was shredding a toy, the worst that would happen is that I would walk over and take it away from her without saying a word or even making eye contact.

 

I'm so jealous of friends who have baskets full of plush toys dating back to their dogs' puppy days. The only toys my dogs have are rubber toys now, or balls and Frisbees that get picked up when we're not playing with them. It's sad because the older 2 can have plush toys and play with them for a while, even though they eventually do de-stuff them. But the lurcher destroys a stuffed toy within minutes of getting hold of it.

 

So, yeah. I'd love some tips on that, too.

[Sue R]

That's why my dogs don't have stuffed toys. The one destroys them in moments but is not a swallower. She can destroy just about any "indestructible" chew toy and so we just don't have any chew toys that they can't consume. Another would rip one apart and manage to swallow at least some fibers/indigestible bits. The third had a stuffed toy as a pup but once he got past the mouthing stage, it was put up.

 

It is funny to watch because the first and third dogs I mentioned are very meticulous about spitting out any fiber/dog hair/stuff they get in their mouths. The second dog is much less fussy about what he swallows and that's where his problem lies because small amounts may pass but if they don't, they can build up to be a wad of indigestible material that can block the pyloric sphincter (at the opening from stomach to intestines) or, worse yet, get in the intestines and cause a blockage there. Seeing what Celt hacked up that could have killed him was enough for me to remove all stuffed toys. Of course, other people's mileage will vary. I'm sure I give my dogs things that some others would never give to theirs, and vice verse.

 

The cute stuffed toy that DD gave my dogs last Christmas is still virginal and, since her dogs play with stuffies without ill effects, it will be gifted back this Christmas!

[erin_ohagan]

Well, when you figure out how to teach a dog how to not de-stuff their toys, please pass that tip on to me! My dogs love to kill and then eviscerate their stuffed toys, and I haven't figured out to teach them to play with them without destroying them.

 

That said, none have de-stuffed the furniture. I guess the difference is that while they were still in the learning stage, I never even allowed them to put their mouths on the furniture. The lurcher was the hardest one; she did manage to chew the edges of some dog beds before she was broken of the habit, but she was firmly corrected every time she'd start to chew a dog bed (as she was for chewing shoelaces, or any other inappropriate object), but never corrected for playing with a toy. Even if she was shredding a toy, the worst that would happen is that I would walk over and take it away from her without saying a word or even making eye contact.

I would say this is true about my pup as well...the de-stuffing of the chair happened when I was not at home with her. Literally everything I have ever caught her even looking twice at and have given a firm "No" to and re-directed she has not once gone back to. The chair just happened to be the one thing that she had never shown any interest in de-stuffing before. And, the chair is not a total loss. Additionally she did go back to sniff it not long after and I said "No" and she skulked away. She is now even doing her best to herd the cats away from it,....which is honestly very funny to watch.

 

 

I think I just have one last question regarding crate training. She has now caught on that sometimes when I ask her to go into the crate it means she is going to get put into it for a length of time and has stopped going in when asked even if I have no intention of crating her for any length of time. So......if she refuses to go in what do I do? Do I "force" her in (ie take her by the collar and put her in)? Or, does this ALWAYS have to be her own willingness to go in?

 

I have a friend who swears you should not EVER force a dog into a crate, but then others who say "make it happen" because you are in charge, not the dog. If she won't go in, and I don't "make it happen" does that just teach her that she doesn't have to go in? I do have a plan B if she won't go in (to gate her off in the kitchen) but honestly she could just find something in the kitchen to chew on, or a garbage can to raid while I'm gone. Granted, she's never done either of these things other than my one chair, but I need to know what to do if she won't go in.

 

thanks again all!

 

 

[Jescano]

Or, does this ALWAYS have to be her own willingness to go in?

No, you can put the dog in the crate even when she doesn't want to. Put in crate, give treat/bone(or don't).

 

But that's just my opinion, others probably vary. For me, if dog needs to be crated dog will be crated whether they like it or not.

 

I will send mine into his crate randomly and treat him and we do tricks in the crate. So "crate" doesn't always mean I'm leaving. When we're training or he's just loose in the room it's kinda like "place" or "bed." We do some tricks outside of it, I say "crate" he goes in, treat in the crate, have him do a couple tricks in there. He waits for an "ok" to come out of the crate. and we continue training or playing(or most of the time its a mix of both.) Right now he still doesn't choose it as his preferred place to just hang out or nap but he doesn't mind going in when I tell him to. And he'll stay in there with the door open until I give him the "ok" to leave. He gets all his raw food in the crate and if we're not using his kibble as treats or in a food dispensing ball he gets that in his crate too.

 

ETA: Today he actually did choose to go into his crate on his own to chew one of his toys and relax.

[Shetlander]

With puppies, any time I send them to a crate, I give them at least a small treat and will also feed them in their crates. The only dog I still crate every so often is the 11 year old Lhasa and he still usually gets a treat when I send him in. Some people are surprised that he runs to his crate on command and that all my dogs go in crates of their own volition. Crates are simply a part of their routine as youngsters where good things often happen and they feel safe. That carries through their whole lives (the 15 year old Sheltie recently declared she was now sleeping in her Cabana Crate in the kitchen instead of on the bed).