I got to work my dog!

[Flamincomet]

After my big summer plans fell through I ended up with a little excess of money, and I'm finally starting my boyfriend's car in first gear (mostly) reliably, so I decided to start lessons with Link again. It's been 6+ months since he was in boarding and training, so I was a little worried he might have regressed. He didn't from what I can tell though, when he went back to work yesterday he listened very well, and called off beautifully. I'm so happy! I also got to work him for the first time, and he was great. Still a lot of drive so he needs a lie down a lot, but at some points he was just walking behind the sheep I just need better access to some sheep to work and I think we'll be able to start trialing soon! I have a few options, we'll see if they work out. If not I'll just be making the drive out to my instructors a lot.

 

I was wondering though, this is my first potential trial dog, how will I know when he's ready? I'm planning to start in USBCHA Novice, what skills are generally required for that? I don't know if he's started driving yet, I don't think so. Should he be on whistles? I tried to get video but couldn't figure out the option on my camera. Here is a semi blurry picture though.

 

 

And the happy boy cooling off in the sprinkler.

 

[TEC]

Good that you got back to it, and that your dog did so well.

 

Novice courses don't have a standard set-up, but some general guidelines are: a short outrun (50-100 yds), lift, fetch, wrap at post, short 25-40 yd drive (some allow you to leave the post and follow along), and a pen. Many things are substituted for the pen, such as a cross or Y-chute. If the sheep are believed to be overly easy to pen, course directors sometimes make it more difficult, for instance having the handler stand back near the post, rather than holding a line at the gate.

 

Start learning to whistle now, is my advice, so that you are ready to use whistle commands when your trainer believes it's time. Whistle isn't needed for nov-nov, but it's optional.

 

From the picture of the chain-link pen and trees in the background, I deduced you have one of the best trainers in the NW, near Coeur d'Alene Lake. That's where I practice. Sure, get opinions here, but don't forget to ask the same questions of Norm. He's got the answers, and can adjust them to fit you and your dog. -- Best wishes, TEC

[Sue R]

If you are working with Norm Close, you and your dog are in great hands!

[Flamincomet]

Yes we are training at Norm's, he's wonderful Sometimes I get a little frazzled around people though and don't think of what to ask until I'm back at home or in the car. I'll definitely be asking Norm the same questions, it's just a little easier to ask some online first.

[G. Festerling]

Very exciting!

[jomur]

Go to www.nebca.net

 

Click on Novice Trial Guidelines.This will give you an idea of the various course details in the North East.They are quite similar at other areas of the continent.

Good luck on your trialing.

[Flamincomet]

Thanks everyone, that was really helpful. I haven't done any penning yet, or driving, so we have a bit to go.

[Flamincomet]

I got in touch with a lady I met at the vet a while back who said she had some property and sheep I may be able to work. I called her today and ended up going out to check out the place. They have 80 acres, 80+ heads of stock (just sheep and goats, they also have alpaca and llama), a round pen already set up, and like 5 fenced in nice sized fields! They're trying to get 2 younger dogs started and would like it if I could come out 3+ times a week to help motivate them to work them. Sure I can!! Going to call them next week to start setting up times to go out there. Yay!!

[TEC]

Yeah, yay. What an opportunity. -- TEC

[bcnewe2]

Always helps if you have someone over for motivation! Have fun!

[Gideon's girl]

I wish you guys lived down here or that I lived there. Sheep are rare here and goats just don't herd the same.

[workindogs]

Good job and it looks like you are getting great advice. It's fun when it all starts to come together.

 

Just a note.....there is no such thing as USBCHA Novice...only Nursery and Open. Novice, ProNovice and Open Ranch are all the creation of the host and/or local association. Have fun with Link.

[Flamincomet]

We're going out to work there the first time this Friday

 

Thanks for that Elizabeth, that's good to know. What I mean then I guess is we are trying to prepare for novice classes typically at USBCHA trials.

[Flamincomet]

Well, don't think that place is going to work out. The sheep were really wild, which I expected, but there is no way to separate a group to train with, because the owner refuses, yet she wants to train her young dogs on them. The sheep were so wild they just bolted any time I tried to work them, and they wanted to switch out the sheep every couple minutes (literally). They would not stay off the fence either, every time Link got them off they stuck right back onto it. I realize dogs should be able to work non dogged sheep, but this was a little ridiculous, and there was no hope of progress in sight. She kept saying, some people have sheep for dog and some people have dogs for sheep. Well, why did you offer your sheep to work if you don't want them to be worked? Besides all that, the farm reeeeally needs to be cleaned up, there were boards with rusty nails sticking out of them everywhere, piles of garbage, and when they wanted me to come watch them work their young dog, I had to initiate cleaning up the pen because there were boards everywhere and an old panel of fencing in the middle of the pen that was just begging for a paw or hoof to be caught up in. It was really hard to watch them work their young dog too, because apparently their idea of training is to expect the dog to call off mid flank and if it doesn't, beat it. The dog was really trying too.

 

So sadly don't think I will be going back. I offered to help clean up, which I would do before I ever took my dog back out there, but I don't know how to train my dog on such wild sheep. I couldn't even set up a small outrun before they were bolting, and they were never off the fence for more than a few seconds. How do you transition from dogged sheep to less green ones?

[juliepoudrier]

IIRC you're just starting out yourself, so neither you nor your dog should be expected to dog break sheep, especially sheep that have apparently been worked badly and so know how to beat a dog. EVen people who have dogs for the sheep need to dog break their sheep (that is, get the sheep used to being worked by dogs, which is best done with a trained dog, since using an untrained one just causes the sorts of problems you saw and can result in a dog with some very bad habits).

 

It's a shame about their own dog. They'll eventually correct it to the point of shutting it down completely and then they''ll blame the "damned dog" for being a POS when in reality it's the shitty training (ot lack thereof) that's the problem.

 

If the owners aren't amenable to addressing the problems, including finding someone with a trained dog to get the sheep used to being moved by dogs and, more important, how to properly train their own dog, then I think you'd be wise to just stay away. I wouldn't have been able to keep my mouth shut once they started beating their dog, honestly.

 

ETA: The transition becomes possible when your own dog is trained well enough and has gained enough experience to know what to do with wilder sheep. I know that's not a cut and dried answer, but much depends on the dog in addition to the sheep.

 

Maybe ask Norm if he knows of anyone near you with reasonable sheep that you can work between lessons.

 

 

J.

[Flamincomet]

They have an older dog that is useful enough to move the stock (if you count the stock running at breakneck speed), but he's very old, and looks pretty shut down. They complain about how he doesn't move enough, but watching him it looks like he's figured out that the stock need VERY little pressure, and probably has been corrected a lot so he's not exactly raring to go. Honestly I really liked him, he's obviously smart enough to figure out what they want without them clearly telling him.

 

If I did go back out there it would be without Link to help clean the place up. After checking Link over when we came home I found a gash on the inside of his leg which was probably from the roll of old fencing in the field we worked. When I asked if it could be removed they just gave me a blank stare and said, "It's IN the ground." So I cleaned the wound and am watching it closely, will probably be taking him into the vet to get a tetanus shot.

 

I just don't see how I can even work there though with the sheep. I tried talking to them about marking a small group and working them in the round pen with their young dog on a regular basis, but apparently there's no way they could do this because they keep all the stock together all the time and aren't willing to put in the work to keep a group separate. I swear they just took offense to everything I said too, when I said the sheep won't stay off the fence, it was just "well that's what sheep do, your dog needs to stay in between them and the fence," or, these sheep are really flighty, "well yeah, there's a PREDATOR coming after them, what do you expect, they're actually really nice docile sheep!"

 

Anyway, I'm just really frustrated. I've been trying to find sheep to work closer to me for years now, and either no one gets back to me, they hit my dog, or the sheep are unworkable. Norm doesn't know any sheep I can work that are closer to me either. So I guess the search is on again... I just want to finish college already so I can get my own property and sheep.