puppies and learning

[olivehill]

Julie, I wasn't trying to call you out and I wasn't saying "my post" as in a personal way like you were offending me personally. You had used the "lie down" as an example a few times and that one was mine, that's all I was saying. I'm sorry if you took it as I was trying to give you the what-for. That's not my intent. I was just using that as a jumping off point for an example of why if someone asks a question it doesn't necessarily mean they're doing what this thread is about -- the pressure, etc. -- I'm actually glad it was used as I can speak personally for that one. I can't really say one way or another if the other recent threads were motivated by those things... they very well could have been.

 

And I do agree with you on the downfall of forums being the limited picture we can relay and receive. I'm certainly guilty of reading too much into things too. I was just playing devil's advocate, since I -- at least to some extent -- prompted this topic of convo.

[Maralynn]

FWIW I didn't start this thread to single anyone out. Like I said I've got ideas on raising pups but no actual experience. I was just kinda suprised that there were three recent threads where it seemed like owners might be concerned that a young pup wasn't learning a particular behavior (and its the internet so what you're saying and what I'm reading can be two vastly different things!) So I was wondering if I was missing something and also what philosophy different folks had on puppy raising was. And I will agree that I was a bit concerned that there might be too much training pressure going on. I have used too much pressure before and looking back it would have been kinda nice if someone had told me that I didn't have to pressure my dogs and myself so much. I guess in the last year or so the biggest lesson that I've learned with my dogs is to enjoy the journey

[PSmitty]

What I said is that I worry people are expecting too much from very young puppies. I came to that conclusion based on several recent threads, not any one alone. I figure when one takes the time to post a thread asking for advice, or lamenting the fact that puppy isn't catching on to *whatever* fast enough, that there must be some sort of expectation attached. *shrugs*

 

And FWIW, Olivehill, yours is not the only recent thread specifically about a young puppy learning "down".

[terrecar]

 

I'm done here.

 

J.

 

Okay but I have to say that I very much appreciate the advice you gave early on that helped me to stop worrying about the loads of excercise thing. I had never had a Border Collie or Aussie or mix, so I didn't know what to expect in terms of how much excercise to provide. Your advice on the matter kind of helped me to relax and just get out there with Hannah without trying to put time constraints on it or anything. I take her to the track with me and just enjoy being out there walking with her, or we hike the Susquehanna (well we did before the bear...) or whatever, but I don't WORRY about it. She seems to be getting the right amount of excercise, in any case.

 

I do think it is a good idea to get the point out there that puppies need to be allowed to be puppies, all the other interpersonal stuff aside (I have no opinion on that). That doesn't mean I think people aren't doing that, but it doesn't hurt to highlight the point.

[Liz P]

While I would say that I love them pretty early on, I didn't feel that deep, strong bond with most of them until they were older. And, I would say the bond grows each year. Any relationship takes time, and some develop faster than others.

 

I expect my pups to learn the meaning of basic obedience commands within the first few weeks, but I don't expect the commands to be solid (proofed) until they are at least 6+ months old. Of course, at that age they hit puberty, so we go back to square one and begin enforcing the commands all over again. By 18 months I expect a settled, trained adult (except for those late maturing males who take until 24 or 30 months to buckle down).

[olivehill]

What I said is that I worry people are expecting too much from very young puppies. I came to that conclusion based on several recent threads, not any one alone. I figure when one takes the time to post a thread asking for advice, or lamenting the fact that puppy isn't catching on to *whatever* fast enough, that there must be some sort of expectation attached. *shrugs*

 

Thanks for the reply. I wondered if that might be part of it.

 

And FWIW, Olivehill, yours is not the only recent thread specifically about a young puppy learning "down".

 

 

Ahhh, well, my apologies then. The only other one I'd seen wasn't really about learning the down, but being submissive. I must have missed it -- or just took that one differently. Like I said, I wasn't trying to be mean was just playing devil's advocate.

[Ooky]

I think the important thing I did with Odin at that age wasn't his trick training, exactly, it was building the foundations for a really solid bond and relationship. I think this can be done partially with training, he and I both really liked our short sessions each day when he was a small pup. My husband actually spent more time with him as a pup (he worked from home that summer) but Odin bonded with me first and foremost. Nowadays I am embarrassed to admit he kind of considers some of my husband's commands "optional" but will always listen to me. While later events did contribute to this, it started early and I think at least some of that had to do with me spending one-on-one time with him trying to teach him specific things, training and also having expectations as described by Mr. McCaig, although I definitely didn't know what I was doing in the expectations department very well.

 

It's interesting the OP brings up toddlers. I've learned as a parent that it is hard to listen to other moms brag about what their kid can do, without recognizing bragging for what it is and to not make you feel like you should be "stepping it up" with your kid's "training". I've also learned that for the more unbelievable reports (my 2 year old can already add!), the parents are outright lying or else they are completely deluded (usually the second). I wonder if some of that happens when people get puppies who hang out with other dog sport people, who are always working on early training foundation exercises and commands with tiny pups it seems like, or hang out here on these forums and read brags people have about their super super smart 10-week old BC pup. I think my early training focus for my next pup, now that I've been around stockwork folks more, will be a more laid back and realistic attitude about what pups can and should be expected to do (less emphasis on how many tricks and words they learn, more emphasis on automatic mannerliness). But however I train another pup I hope I can do as well laying the foundations for that strong bond between us.

[MommaLove]

I start training my pups within a few days of bringing them home. By "training", I mean that throughout the day we do little 2min sessions - a few sits, a down, etc - in the midst of playing games and living life. I use clicker training right from the beginning, and love watching a pup figure out how to earn clicks. The light in their eyes when they "get it"!

 

My two current pups (Juno, plus a 8mo beagle) and elderly dog (12yo coonhound) spend most of their days playing & being part of family life, but I think what really makes this enjoyable for everyone is the fact that they've learned from the beginning how to behave in our family. With four very small children, I need my dogs to know that they sit and wait for permission to pass through an open door (especially when the kids leave a door open and I don't want the dogs outside!). They sit when they want affection from the children, instead of jumping up. They don't chew on the children's toys. They wait for humans to initiate play. They sit and wait while I prepare their meals, and they are comfortable with lots of activity going on around them while they eat.

 

I don't think it's at all too much to teach a pup to sit or lie down at a very young age, especially when it is lighthearted fun in the beginning, just as much a game as fetch or tug. Just as I teach my children to use their manners and be respectful, I teach my young pups to perform certain commands that make life easier for everyone. I don't see how this is similar to "tiger moms" as one previous commenter suggested - it's just life. We play, we go hiking almost daily, the dogs come out to the park with the children, we romp around the farm, we go to the beach... and I don't see that it would work to do all this with four children (the oldest is 5) and three dogs, if every dog didn't have a good grasp of sit at the very minimum.

[Rave]

You know one of the great things about your puppies and your dogs in general? You can train them however you damn well please. :-) If I want to drill my puppy, I can do it; If I want to train them to do jumps from an early age, I can. My puppy - My training. If I don't want to do any training, well that's my prerogative too. And yours.

 

Have fun training puppies! Or not!