gemini Posted June 6, 2012 Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 New to this site, but wanted to see if anyone could help. I have a female BC just over a year old. She has been catching Frisbees on the run for over four months, and bringing back well. All of a sudden and out of nowhere, she won't run to catch the Frisbee. She just stands and watches it land. Did I somehow confuse her? Is she bored with the game? Any help or ideas to get her back to normal would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivehill Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Does she do other physically demanding things? I'd be concerned about injury and pain. Sometimes, reluctance to work is the only sign. If she started playing frisbee at only six months old it's entirely possible she's got an injury, even if it's just from cumulative stress on those young joints. A trip to the vet might be in order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Does she go to get it after it lands? My boy will just stand and watch it land if someone else throws it and doesn't throw it "right"...too high, funny angle, etc. or if he is tired. (and frisbee is his #1 love in life) I would try to do short throws right at her so she can catch it right away without having to run and try to really engage with her in a fun way. Or try rollers with them rolling right past her to really get her excited. She may just have lost interest in running long distances for the frisbee. I wouldn't rule out a trip to the vet but sometimes wasting a couple hundred dollars isn't financially in the books for some. Does she show any other pain or reluctance to play other games (fetch with a ball, etc)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Has she been jumping for the frisbee? I'm kind of guessing that you've over done the frisbee play with her. And I'd also be concerned about injury. I didn't do any real frisbee play with my dogs until they were about 1.5 y/o since their bones/joints were still developing and it's so easy to injure them at that age. I'd back off on the frisbee until she's a bit older, then reintroduce it slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 She shows no pain running, or any other activity. What also concerns me is that she won't fetch he ball either. What's funny is that I really never trained her to Frisbee or fetch, she just naturally did it. I'm just concerned I confused her in some way. Maybe I will have to start from square one. Thanks for your help:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 What about her teeth...if she has an uncomfortable mouth she won't want to retrieve. Does she bring it back after it lands on the ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I wouldn't rule out a trip to the vet but sometimes wasting a couple hundred dollars isn't financially in the books for some. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 She shows no pain running, or any other activity. What also concerns me is that she won't fetch he ball either. What's funny is that I really never trained her to Frisbee or fetch, she just naturally did it. I'm just concerned I confused her in some way. Maybe I will have to start from square one. Thanks for your help:) I am another voice that suggests that she may have an injury. BCs have a high pain tolerance so often do not 'show' pain. It may require an ortho or rehab vet visit (not a regular vet) to diagnose. It is also possible that the injury (if she has one) may not hurt her when she engages in normal activities. Hurting only when she actually engages in a fetch game. I do not think it is a training issue since, as you say, she "naturally did it". So she obviously enjoyed it without training. The question is why she suddenly stopped doing something that she naturally enjoyed. Jovi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Wow. I'm sorry, but not everyone has hundreds of dollars to waste on x-rays and mri's or whatever because and only because a dog does not want to fetch a frisbee. My vet would think I was nuts if that was the reason I was coming in and would try to talk me out of doing expensive nonsense until something really seemed off. I would never not take my dog to the vet when needed but some people rush to the vets all the time for the smallest things. I know it is better to be safe than sorry but really, this dog in question does not sound injured if she is still running around and shows no other signs of injury. And besides, it sometimes is not in the books for some-people on here all the time say that. There is no need to make someone feel bad or like they are a bad dog owner because they can't afford to run to the vet for every little thing. Geesh, what a bad attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 I'm sorry, but not everyone has hundreds of dollars to waste on x-rays and mri's or whatever because and only because a dog does not want to fetch a frisbee. My vet would think I was nuts if that was the reason I was coming in and would try to talk me out of doing expensive nonsense until something really seemed off. I would never not take my dog to the vet when needed but some people rush to the vets all the time for the smallest things. I know it is better to be safe than sorry but really, this dog in question does not sound injured if she is still running around and shows no other signs of injury. And besides, it sometimes is not in the books for some-people on here all the time say that. There is no need to make someone feel bad or like they are a bad dog owner because they can't afford to run to the vet for every little thing. Geesh, what a bad attitude. Apparently perfectly fine, however, to make someone offering solicited advice to feel bad for making a simple suggestion. A bad attitude, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrecar Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Just to expand on minimizing the possibility of injury during frisbee play, I actually find it more beneficial as exercise for my dog if I toss the frisbee at waist level. It flies farther if you put some spin on it, allowing the dog to run without having to do much jumping for it. But then, I am not going for competition with my dog. I just use it as a way to engage and exercise her. I don't have any ideas re: the dog losing interest, since I usually want to quit before my dog does. However, I think you've got good advice from others regarding the consideration of joint issues possible injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Apparently perfectly fine, however, to make someone offering solicited advice to feel bad for making a simple suggestion. A bad attitude, indeed. How did I make anyone feel bad for suggesting a trip to the vet? I said they should not rule that idea out! It is true that not everyone has a ton of income, your 'wow' comment was totally unwarranted and rude. If you have so much disposable income maybe you should donate it to those in need. I was merely suggesting that not everyone has a ton of money and that automatically running to the vet may not be needed and the OP should not be made to feel that it is bad if they can't afford that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 How did I make anyone feel bad for suggesting a trip to the vet? I said they should not rule that idea out! It is true that not everyone has a ton of income, your 'wow' comment was totally unwarranted and rude. If you have so much disposable income maybe you should donate it to those in need. I was merely suggesting that not everyone has a ton of money and that automatically running to the vet may not be needed and the OP should not be made to feel that it is bad if they can't afford that. Hmm. And I thought it was actually quite rude of you to suggest to the OP that taking someone up on their suggestion of bringing their dog to the vet was wasting a couple hundred dollars But, perhaps you have a degree in vet medicine and have the expertise to decide when a dog you've never seen should not cause her owner to "waste" any money being checked out. Your choice of words indicates that you must feel fairly confident in your opinion to so derisively dismiss the advice kindly given by others. This is a ridiculous exchange. I'm done. Feel free to respond with how rude I am to call you on your own rude behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 I have to admit bristling at the use of the word, "wasting", too. What's to say it will be a waste? What if something is wrong that only a vet check will find? It's obviously up to the individual when they decide to take their dog to the vet, but none of us can say what is a waste and what isn't it. As one who has "wasted" money on x-rays to find nothing wrong, I will say my peace of mind was worth it. And no, I don't have a lot of disposable income, but felt it was in my dog's best interest. If I were the OP, a vet check is probably what I'd do. If she won't fetch a ball either, teeth and mouth might be the first place to start. It's odd that she suddenly stopped, and unfortunately I wouldn't discount another type of injury caused by the repetive motions with such a young dog, either. Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivehill Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 I once rushed my dog to the vet on a Saturday morning, they did x-rays and you know what they found? That she was literally full of shit. No blockage, just backed up. The vet tech took her for a walk out on their lawn and she let loose -- something she'd not done when I tried walking her around at home hoping for the same result. In the end, I paid $125 for her to take a crap on the vet's lawn. We joke about it, but I never really considered even that bill a "waste". And no, we're not rolling in dough. The thing is, in a stoic animal reluctance to do something the animal usually loves to do may be the only sign of pain you ever get until it's too late. You can't compare guided activity with free style activity, because the dog is in control of how much and in what way the free style activity is done. They can favor through the pain if they do the activity their way, but if you're asking something specific of them, they can't. Certainly it could be nothing, but to me all signs point to a need to rule out pain before pursuing behavioral avenues of correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 I once rushed my dog to the vet on a Saturday morning, they did x-rays and you know what they found? That she was literally full of shit. Thanks for the laugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 It's obviously up to the individual when they decide to take their dog to the vet, but none of us can say what is a waste and what isn't it. As one who has "wasted" money on x-rays to find nothing wrong, I will say my peace of mind was worth it. And no, I don't have a lot of disposable income, but felt it was in my dog's best interest. I feel the same way. I am fortunate in that my vet(s) will listen to me, exam the dog, tell me what they think it might be, suggest additional methods of exam (xray, bloodwork, whatever else), *let me make a decision* based on their advice/recommendation, and do what I approve in terms of assessment and treatment. In general, I find that a dog "quits" doing something it really seems to enjoy because it either becomes bored (not too often), is confused or concerned about training (more often), or is hurting in some way (most often). Perhaps the OP can examine her dog first at home (checking for material stuck in the mouth, checking breath, looking for deciduous teeth that may not have shed properly, petting and stroking all over to see if there are lumps or tender spots) just to see if there is something readily discernable that she might not have noticed. Then she could set up a vet appointment. A basic exam is not pricey. Additional diagnostic tools (xrays, etc.) would be available if and when both she and the vet felt they were necessary. There are things I can understand a young dog "turning off" about but not (in my experience) fetching games. PS - Also check the frisbee for sharp edges. Many plastic frisbees, after some use, will develop sharp snags from the dog's teeth, and these can cause pain in a dog's mouth and reluctance to catch and/or hold the frisbee. Some negative experiences can cause a smart dog to decide that he/she doesn't want to play that game (or anything resembling it) any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretBC Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 My thoughts lean towards a physical issue as well. Healthy young border collies who enjoy fetching don't just suddenly stop. If anything they just continue to get more OCD about it as they get older. It is suspect that she will not fetch balls anymore, either. Because of that, I'll assume that she won't go after frisbee rollers. There must be *some* part of the chase/fetch/retrieve game that is hurting her and making her not want to play. Does she want to play with anything? Tug? You started her on frisbee at a very young age. Too young to be jumping up and catching them out of the air, IMO. It's very possible that she could have a soft tissue injury, a chiropractic misalignment or worse. Hard to say without seeing a vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 In general, I find that a dog "quits" doing something it really seems to enjoy because it either becomes bored (not too often), is confused or concerned about training (more often), or is hurting in some way (most often). Yes! This. I'd be very concerned if my dogs quit playing frisbee or ball because it's not in their nature to quit something like that. They're not too quirky about play time and will pretty much play with anyone, anytime, anywhere. If they get very confused they'll start to shut down a bit. Or if they're hurt they'll be much less interested in playing (though they still want to play if their paw pads get ripped up), but as far as just quitting or becoming bored with play goes, ever since they've started playing with toys they've just become more interested in/excited about playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 As in my previous post, I agree with the high probability of an injury that many others have also suggested. Just this a.m., I thought of an incident that my friend's BC experienced that could be illuminating -- She was at an agility trial, and her high drive BC, who is also very confident on all the equipment, suddenly would not jump on the table. The dog just circled the table, sat, then finally jumped up on the table after my friend insisted. They finished their run without further incident. In fact, prior to the table, the dog was running normally through all the equipment - jumps, DW, teeter, etc. Because my friend is an experienced dog owner, she wondered if he had been scared off the table because he had slipped off of it the previous day, but she also considered the possibility of injury. Luckily, a certified rehab vet had set up a little booth at the trial (she would give massages, cold laser tx, check for soreness and injury, etc.) It was the next day before she could get an 'appointment', and in the meantime, she ran her dog on a jumpers with weaves course - and he showed NO sign of injury. At the appointment, the vet detected that the dog did indeed have a pulled muscle. Obviously it was not painful when he was performing certain moves or even jumping, but it was painful enough to totally stop him from getting on the table. Lesson learned. Jovi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 Well I literally live hand to mouth and if my dog suddenly stopped doing something it normally loved doing, my absolutely first thought would be that there's a pain issue *somewhere.* Boredom might apply on a particular day, but if this is an ongoing issue, it's likely more serious than being bored. As others have noted, it's possible for these dogs to be painful and still continue most things. Depending on my financial state at the moment, I might not rush off to the vet (though I have a Care Credit card for emergencies and if I thought my dog were painful, I most certainly would go to the vet--and what is done and the expenses incurred is up to me anyway, right? one can always opt for a more conservative approach), but I would put the dog on rest, examine it myself for obvious things (painful mouth, painful joints, etc.), and see if rest (maybe NSAIDS appropriate for a dog if I choose not to see a vet) made a difference. If rest does make a difference, then you can assume that there's an injury you can't see, and you'll have to address it more thoroughly at some point (i.e., see a vet) or decide fetch is no longer in your dog's future. I think you're taking a huge risk assuming it's not pain/health related when a dog stops doing something that comes so naturally to them as fetch does. The key here is you say she's not normal. That means something's wrong, and if nothing else has changed in what you're doing, then it's not unreasonable to suspect that what's wrong is something physical. As others have also noted, you started her awfully young on frisbee. That's another screaming clue that her issue might be physical. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frisbeegirl Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Hi My Keeva now 9 months is begining frisbee competition. We had a few issues with bringing the frisbee back ( she is in love with the stick). We make sure there is no destraction other toys, dogs, sheep. HA HA Get her a new frisbee. Maybe a different color. Remember if border collies do not have toys they will make their own. Keeva gets tired now that summer is here. Make sure your BC gets time to rest. We swim in between traing when it is hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 16, 2012 Report Share Posted June 16, 2012 Do you really think a different color of frisbee would make a difference? A new frisbee if the old one has dings and digs that hurt her mouth might help, but color? New one on me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arf2184 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Meg has a green frisbee that she has trouble spotting in the grass. Apart from something like that though I don't color would make a difference. Meg prefers softer Frisbees. Many pet store ones tend to be too hard in my opinion. I like the Skhoundz SofFlite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEC Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Do you really think a different color of frisbee would make a difference? A new frisbee if the old one has dings and digs that hurt her mouth might help, but color? New one on me... Another thought like Arf2184's, pet stores sell nylon fabric disks of various sizes. They don't throw very far or accurately. I try to have one in the house for times my border collie wants to play, when weather or darkness make it difficult outside. Very soft and light. The one on the floor at my feet say's, "Tail-Spin Flyer". Little 1-2 foot tosses, building to across the room throws might get your friend re-invigorated about them. Your dog may have experienced a bad catch, and his/her mouth is remembering it. You no doubt were already doing this, but be sure to toss the disk so that the dog can catch it while he/she is moving in approx. the same direction as the disk. After a little practice, you can send your dog out like a football wide-receiver, toss the disk while leading your dog, and the dog will catch it over its shoulder. We have several nylon fabric variety in the house, along with harder plastic ones in the car and backyard. The nylon disks, as you might imagine, tear and deteriorate after hard usage. The oldest one has become no more than a foot long strap -- her favorite tug toy -- Best wishes, TEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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