A few Training questions....

[Gerard]

Like the title says I have a few different things I would like to ask. Instead of making multiple threads, I decided just to combine them.

 

Situation #1: I have had Raider since April of last year and he was about 12 weeks old when I got him. At the time I was living in an apartment and dropping him off at my parents house to take care of him during the day when I was at work. I pretty much had him trained to go "poop" when I would take him out, say "go potty" and he would go. Well June came along, lost my job, moved in with my parents and they had 2 other dogs. We then started to train him to use the bathroom outside when I let him out still saying "go potty". Well here it is now almost a year later and he almost refuses to go poop outside. We use the backyard as his play area as well since its about a .3 acre and gives him space to go run/play ball/Frisbee. I'm thinking he may think that going outside means play time, but I will go out there with him and tell him "no, go potty." Most times he gives in and goes but over about the last month or so he has been pooping in the house over night(I'm home) or when everyone leaves the house. Am I possibly not leaving him outside long enough, can he not hold it very long or is it maybe my previous observation? I've tried telling him no, raising my voice, changing body language, being consistent with commands and "potty times". Any help would be great.

 

Situation #2:I used to have him off lease trained for walks too, but since he got neutered and getting older he tends to want to "investigate" and go further than close to me during a walk or run. He will still listen to my voice and come on first call but doesn't stay close to me anymore. Any suggestions?

 

Situation #3:I am about to have my summer off and I am wanting to start some sort of training. He loves Frisbee, fetch, running/catching, he throws balls at me haha and we have a tree that fell in the back yard he loves to weave in and out of the dead branches. I was thinking about some obedience classes and some agility/flyball/etc. What would be best for a BC that loves these activities? I was thinking if there may be somethings better than others.

 

Situation #4: I live in North Fort Worth, Texas. Does anyone on here know of a really good trainer I could use out this way to help me and Raider out?

 

THANKS!

 

Gerard

[Lewie'sMom]

Gerard, for #1, assuming there is no health related issues, I suggest putting Raider on a schedule, like when puppy training. Be sure to crate when you can't watch him. Why he's started eliminating in the house may not have an easy answer. It could be stress related to the change in environment and now because of the time, has become habit. Or, it maybe what I refer to as occasional Border collie weirdness, but I sort of doubt it. When you take him outside for potty and two-two (my commands for elimination) stay with him. Use your command word(s) until you get the desired results. Then, have a party! Let Raider know, in no uncertain terms, that he's done a simply marvelous thing. Raising your voice isn't the way to go. It won't accomplish the task at hand, it may cause Raider to become confused and shy from you. Patience is key here as it is with all training.

 

For #2, It's normal for a healthy dog to want to explore. I don't know how old Raider is but I'm assuming he's young. As he matures and becomes more confident, he may just be exploring his environment. There are so many interesting smells and messages to investigate! I suggest putting him on a long line so you can remind him occasionally that this is not the time to wander and lollygag.

 

Always remember that training/behavior modification takes patience, practice and persistence. Positive reinforcement is the way to go. Any corrections should be done timely, matter-of-factly, and without anger or malice.

 

For #3 and #4, I moved to DFW area about 1-1/2 years ago but I don't know of any trainers. Have you tried doing an Internet search for trainers/obedience classes/agility? I think Raider will let you know what he enjoys most. As with any hobby, sometimes it's trial and error to find the right fit. There must be something around this area.

 

Good luck!

[SecretBC]

Situation 1: Go outside with him. If he doesn't eliminate, put him in a crate. He is fine to stay there overnight and while you are gone -- Or put him in the crate for a short period, then go outside and try to get him to go to the bathroom again. They tend to learn pretty quickly that, "I must go now or I will get to sleep in the crate tonight."

 

If you do not witness him going in the house, do not punish him or otherwise say anything negative towards him about it. Regardless of the fact that you may think he looks "guilty" and that he "knows what he did was wrong," dogs don't live in the past.

 

Bottom line, if he doesn't relieve himself outside he goes in a crate.

 

Situation 2: This is pretty common. Puppies want to stay close to us. Almost every dog reaches a stage where they start to test the waters of their independence and realize that there is a big awesome world out there. Consider yourself lucky (and a good trainer!) that he recalls on the first command. It sounds like you just want him to stay within a certain distance of you -- This can be achieved by using a long line or simply teaching him to "check in" with you regularly. When he reaches the perimeter of where you'd like him to be, call his name and reward him when he comes back to you. Eventually he'll figure out the bubble and stay there the majority of the time. If you are walking in town, please use a leash.

 

Situation 3: Do what you feel you would both enjoy the most! Or do it all, whatever appeals to you. I compete in agility and play frisbee for recreation. We don't have flyball in this area or else I'd probably do that, too! lol Maybe find a good training school that offers several things and just go watch -- see what interests you. If you have an active, young, energetic border collie I'm guessing he'll be game for about anything.

 

Situation 4: Sorry, I live in Wisconsin. But you are in a good area, so I'm sure there will be lots of great suggestions.

[Gerard]

Hey both of you, thanks for the replies! Yeah Raider is pretty young. Since I was his 4th owner when I got him I don't really know the exact age of him. He was pretty small and clumsy when I got him and was told he was 12 weeks. Now I would say he is a year and maybe 4 months and close to 40 pounds.

 

As for crating, is that a pretty common practice with Border Collies? My family and I have never crated a dog, so this would be something new to me. Growing up we always looked at crating as a punishment type of tool and not as an obedience tool. Have you all always crated? I thought about getting a crate with a bed in it to give him "his space". He usually sleeps with me on my bed and has even created his own job LOL. When he hears my alarm go off in the morning, he will jump on my bed and nudge/slap at me or lay on top of me until I get up LOL. Ever heard that one before? Sure helps me not be late for work!!!

 

He is extremely curious and active. We will finish playing outside and about 10-15 minutes later I will be on the couch and he throws a ball or toy at me, almost as if he has me trained when he wants to play. I don't know about ya'lls but Raider has this head tilt he does when either he doesn't get his way, doesn't understand or is getting impatient as in a "well? what are you waiting for?" HAHA

 

Next time I take him for a walk, I will take him on my longer leash and bring some treats and use praise with the "check in". Also, I will start watching him use the restroom and start going back to the commands I used when he was a lot younger.

[Lewie'sMom]

I am a huge advocate of crating regardless of breed. Lewie is almost 5 years and I still crate him when I'm gone. At this stage, it's as much for his safety as anything. But, with a young dog or one that's very "busy", it also keeps the house safe from 1) potty accidents, 2) a bored or busy dog finding something to keep himself occupied, like tearing up the flooring or chewing down the drywall, 3) it keeps dog from ingesting something harmful (see #2 ).

 

Crating is not punishment, no matter what other people may tell you. Dogs are den animals and a crate is his den, his safe place, his room, if you will. Yes, his crate is a good training tool for giving time-outs if dog needs time to chill. It's no different than a child's room. It is their space, a safe haven, but also a place for reflection if an infraction has occurred.

 

Make crating pleasant. Give a small treat to entice Raider in and praise after he enters. Then close the door and walk away. No more interaction until it's time for him to come out. Start in very short increments if he's uncomfortable so he learns you're always coming back. If he's really uncomfortable with it, don't close the door. Just let him walk in and right out again if that is what he wants to do. Getting him used to crating may take some time (practice, patience and persistence) but he will eventually enter on his own and be at ease.

 

When I leave the house, Lewie is crated, and always he get a special treat that is reserved just for crating. When I tell him it's "time for your treat ball, go jump in your box" (my work for crate), he fairly flies to the bedroom and into his crate waiting for his treat.

 

Let us know how things are going if you decide to crate.

[gcv-border]

Hey both of you, thanks for the replies! Yeah Raider is pretty young. Since I was his 4th owner when I got him I don't really know the exact age of him. He was pretty small and clumsy when I got him and was told he was 12 weeks. Now I would say he is a year and maybe 4 months and close to 40 pounds.

 

As for crating, is that a pretty common practice with Border Collies? My family and I have never crated a dog, so this would be something new to me. Growing up we always looked at crating as a punishment type of tool and not as an obedience tool. Have you all always crated? I thought about getting a crate with a bed in it to give him "his space". He usually sleeps with me on my bed and has even created his own job LOL. When he hears my alarm go off in the morning, he will jump on my bed and nudge/slap at me or lay on top of me until I get up LOL. Ever heard that one before? Sure helps me not be late for work!!!

 

He is extremely curious and active. We will finish playing outside and about 10-15 minutes later I will be on the couch and he throws a ball or toy at me, almost as if he has me trained when he wants to play. I don't know about ya'lls but Raider has this head tilt he does when either he doesn't get his way, doesn't understand or is getting impatient as in a "well? what are you waiting for?" HAHA

 

Next time I take him for a walk, I will take him on my longer leash and bring some treats and use praise with the "check in". Also, I will start watching him use the restroom and start going back to the commands I used when he was a lot younger.

Thank you for 'rescuing' Raider. Since you were his 4th owner at 12 weeks old, I would consider that a rescue.

 

Crating -- is great for ALL types of dogs. It should never be used as a punishment. There have been several excellent threads on crating recently. Please do a search for crating, and you will find advice on why, when, and how to crate.

 

Training - BCs love to work/play with you. I think you will find that Raider will be happy to do either agility, rally, obedience, tracking, nosework, flyball, hiking or whatever - particularly if you use positive reinforcement. When looking for a trainer, make sure they use positive reinforcement techniques.

 

Good Luck with Raider.

 

Jovi

[arf2184]

Meg went through a couple spells where she only wanted to play when she went out and wouldn't potty. During those times, I just put her on leash when we went out. I did not engage her at all. Just told her to go potty and then ignored her. After she pottied, then I'd praise her and turn her loose so she could play. She caught on really fast that pottying came first.

 

So in addition to a schedule, you might try leashing him for potty time to help him focus and be less tempted to play. (Was he on a leash for potty time when you ere at the apartment?)

 

Have you done any clicker training? If not, I'd find a trainer that does clicker classes. You can do a lot with it.

 

As said, don't feel like you have to pick one activity. Meg and I have taken a variety of clicker based fun classes, have been taking agility classes for about a year and a half, are learning Treibball, play Frisbee for fun, and love working on various tricks and games at home.

[Gerard]

Meg went through a couple spells where she only wanted to play when she went out and wouldn't potty. During those times, I just put her on leash when we went out. I did not engage her at all. Just told her to go potty and then ignored her. After she pottied, then I'd praise her and turn her loose so she could play. She caught on really fast that pottying came first.

 

So in addition to a schedule, you might try leashing him for potty time to help him focus and be less tempted to play. (Was he on a leash for potty time when you ere at the apartment?)

 

Have you done any clicker training? If not, I'd find a trainer that does clicker classes. You can do a lot with it.

 

As said, don't feel like you have to pick one activity. Meg and I have taken a variety of clicker based fun classes, have been taking agility classes for about a year and a half, are learning Treibball, play Frisbee for fun, and love working on various tricks and games at home.

 

Yeah he was on a leash when i would take him potty in the apartment, would that be whats causing the confusion all this time later?

 

I've never done clicker training. I did watch a video where the dog "played dead" and it seemed like it taught the dog when to stop. I usually use various noises like an "ep" as a stop and a whistle if I need to get his attention while playing and he's running. This is why im dying to get him into training. I am a teacher and coach so I haven't had much time during the school year. Friday is my last day and I will probably go out saturday or monday to look for some places or trainers I find online.

[Gerard]

Here are pics of Raider and I (my fav pic of us), 2 of his 1st lake day (2 weeks ago) and one of him

[alligande]

I had also never used a crate till I got my puppy but if you follow everyone's advice you will be really pleased. I do not use crates in my house now, the only time we use them is at agility trials and both dogs are very comfortable in them. (My older dog had been crate trained before I got him)

 

I would sample some different activities, I love agility and competive obedience would bore me silly, but I have friends who that is there first love when it comes to activities. So do some sampling and find what you both enjoy.

[gcv-border]

 

I've never done clicker training. I did watch a video where the dog "played dead" and it seemed like it taught the dog when to stop. I usually use various noises like an "ep" as a stop and a whistle if I need to get his attention while playing and he's running. This is why im dying to get him into training. I am a teacher and coach so I haven't had much time during the school year. Friday is my last day and I will probably go out saturday or monday to look for some places or trainers I find online.

 

Good for you for being open to learning new training techniques. The click is a marker that the dog has done something right (positive reinforcement). The theory/technique is very different than what you are using on Raider. As a coach I bet that you would really enjoy learning the clicker techniques.

 

Jovi

[Gerard]

Oh, can someone give me ideas about teaching paitence? My dog has it when it comes to something he wants, but if i tell him to sit/stay he barks and gets all excited. This all started when my dad started using the same hand signal I had for "stay" for "stop barking or shut up" as he would put it. Needless to say parents are no long in the picture for the training/behavior part. When he was about 4 months old I used to tell him sit/stay throw a toy or run around with a toy and he wouldnt go after it/me until I would say so.

[Lewie'sMom]

 

Gerard, when I talk about the 3 Ps, Patience, Persistence and Practice, patience and persistence are aimed at the trainer, not the dog!

 

Impulse control is difficult for young dogs but it will come will maturity and practice. Don't expect him to be able to hold a sit/down/stay command for too long right now, although it sounds like you have a real good start on it. As with anything, start with small increments, even just a few seconds, and work up from that. You want to set the dog up for success, not failure. Remember, if a dog fails it's the trainer's fault, not the dog's! (See my tag line quote from Ninso )

 

Training should be fun for you and the dog. If you start getting frustrated (although it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders), do one more command that the dog has mastered and ALWAYS end on a positive note. Take a break and come back to it tomorrow. You are building a life-long relationship and that takes time. Even though Raider will eventually "get" what you are asking of him, training and re-enforcing those lessons never end.

 

I think you are wise to cut folks out of the training picture who don't understand (or won't) be consistent. It's no secret that we humans are far more difficult to train than our dogs.

[ChantalB]

You need to move away from the stimulus, as far away as you need to, and ask the command. Sometimes you need to remove the dog entirely. You work on moving closer, eventually you will be able to ask for the stay right by it (ringing door, thrown toy, etc.) Same principle as working up to taking commands when you are further away. Start with low grade distractions then work tour way up