terrecar Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Today in obedience class, the instructor decided to mix it up and add a couple of tunnels, just for fun. One was small, but the other was quite long. Hannah did well with the first (short) one once she figured out what I wanted. But the second (long) one? She was absolutely enamored. After the first time, not only did I not have to use a lure, but she did not want to stop going through the tunnel each time we passed it! She was obsessed. I don't get it. I'm not complaining, mind you. I look forward to starting agility once this class is over. I am just a little puzzled and a lot amused that she is so enamored with the tunnel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Now you know what agility people mean when they talk about "tunnel suck!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Many/most dogs love the agility tunnel. I know someone who uses the tunnel as a reward. i.e. if her dog does a correct obstacle or does a sequence correctly, she sends him to the tunnel. To him, the tunnel is waayy better than a toy or food. I am glad your dog is learning to love the tunnel. If you have any NADAC trials in your area, enter the Tunnelers course. Nothing but tunnels - fast and furious. Huge amount of fun. Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arf2184 Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 I wish Meg was more like Hannah when it comes to tunnels! I've been staying a few minutes after agility class and treating her heavily for going through the tunnel so she'll get more comfortable with it. As it is, she always hesitates before entering while we're running in class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdaniels Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 My Ben LOVES the tunnel too. It's odd, because he's not the most confident guy in the world yet, but he definitely gets sucked right in to the tunnel like he's been running through them forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 I don't know why some of them find it so fascinating, but some definitely do!! In the little bit of Agility that Speedy and I did, the tunnel was his absolute favorite. Maybe he felt a bit of a "rush" after flying through it. Who knows? To this day, if he can go through a tunnel, he is there, although I don't have him around them very often. Dean likes tunnels, but he can easily bypass one to do a contact or something. I think Tessa is shaping up to be a tunnel vacuum dog, but so far it is actually the table that draws her like a magnet!! That could be an issue in CPE games, but before we actually start to play them, I think she will have the idea. She's a smart girl!! But I do think she's going to love the tunnels before long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrecar Posted November 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Wow. It looks like you all are familiar with 'tunnel drive'. I had never seen anything like it. I expected that our dogs would do the tunnel to please their handlers, not themselves. My goodness these dogs are fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogs & Dogs Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Wow. It looks like you all are familiar with 'tunnel drive'. I had never seen anything like it. I expected that our dogs would do the tunnel to please their handlers, not themselves. My goodness these dogs are fun! An agility friend once told me that other breeds work because they love their handlers, but BC's love their handlers because they let them work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serena+Eluane B.C. Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well, when B.Cs are young, they just loooooove that thundering tunnel and makin' it shake! It's like doggy version of rollercoaster ride. Dark and spooky and Compelling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrecar Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well, when B.Cs are young, they just loooooove that thundering tunnel and makin' it shake! It's like doggy version of rollercoaster ride. Dark and spooky and Compelling! Maybe that's why I don't get it. I don't like roller coasters! (or Steven King novels, for that matter) ETA: Ack! Stephen* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrecar Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 An agility friend once told me that other breeds work because they love their handlers, but BC's love their handlers because they let them work. I love that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serena+Eluane B.C. Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Terrecar, hehe, you see, there are those who say I think like a border collie. Obsessively, and I do understand why they love that tunnel. It's not just the cooool dark, spooky excitement of roller coaster thunder-and-shake, but also if you think about it, sheep's hooves also make a thundering noise, and the border collie likes to slam all of its speed and force into that tunnel when it goes fast. Have you ever had your foot stepped on by a border collie???? Well, if you have, you know what I mean...They have been bred to slam down all their feet down for maximum power, force and intimidation for the sheep as well- as a warning that hey, you watch it, sheep, I'll getchya if you don't line up! If you notice the difference between how quietly most dogs run (except for the bouncy Labrador, lol)versus how loud and hard a border collie tends to run (like a herd of elephants) you get what I mean.... And I bet every agility BC when it is thundering through the tunnel is dreaming instinctually of chasing sheep, I suspect. Note, I say most border collies...there are of course, exceptions to the rule, but I dunno, I have yet to encounter a silent running border collie! They may be sooo graceful but they do thunder! Even in my video, when Eluane lands it still sounds like the clunking of ballerina pointe shoes-- loud! And hands down, it's still their favorite obstacle if you do an experiment and let them have a free-for-all, step back and watch, indeed they love that tunnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrecar Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 And hands down, it's still their favorite obstacle if you do an experiment and let them have a free-for-all, step back and watch, indeed they love that tunnel. In a free-for-all I'm positive Hannah would go for the tunnel. The weave poles? I think her attitude is, "sure I'll do it but what's the point again?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 In a free-for-all I'm positive Hannah would go for the tunnel. The weave poles? I think her attitude is, "sure I'll do it but what's the point again?". In a free-for-all, Maddie would have gone for the A-Frame or Dogwalk every time. So far Tessa is going for the Table every chance she can get!! Dean . . . hmmmmmmmm . . . sometimes tunnel, sometimes contacts. He seems to fluctuate between the two as his favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I have now been to a couple of trials where the tunnel is being stabilized by 5-6 pairs of tunnel bags. They LOVE going through a tunnel, and if it is curved - so much the better. They can bank off the outside corner. I know that if I curve my tunnel at home, I have to readjust the tunnel bags every other time my boy speeds through it because he can really move it. I guess I need more tunnel bags too. Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serena+Eluane B.C. Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 EGADS!!! I have never ever! heard of any Border Collie enjoying the table!!!! lol, goes to show there are always .0000000000000000000000000000000001% exceptions to the rule, lol! Out of all the courses the table is the most dreaded obstacle of all for almost all border collies! It's so boring for them, and they approach it all hunchy and hump-backed by comparison and the slight droop of the ears, anyone who reads a dog's body language, knows that for the majority of border collies, they tolerate it...They are not thrilled with this thing but they will take it because they have to. Only border collies trained in "conformation or showing exhibit" might be able to tolerate or enjoy a table. But it's not in the Border Collie's nature to enjoy that thing. A border collie wants to be out doing the work and the speed flips and turns... Eluane does like the A-Frame because it is roller-coasty (because of the incline) and she is LOUD! ON THAT THING but it's actually 3rd down the list if I do a true on-the-field test. (hurdles, then a tunnel-zap, A-Frame). For Eluane, the tunnel is her exclamation point, the finishing flair, but always she actually chooses the hurdles first) She enjoys thundering noises like tunnel and A-Frame, but never ever! does she bark on the course (thank goodness). Any sort of barking while she is running would completely throw me off my loop(my learning disability would not be able to function with that type of distraction. I am totally focused on Eluane, and she on me when we compete....I completely zone out everyone else and everyone else's dog...So if she were busy barking and running at the same time all that focus and energy would be lost. Mmmmm, folks do the free-for-all. Step back and position yourself away, and see what they really go for...hehe! What you really see might surprise you. Also as my agility expert friend says in a free-for-all, the border collie will at first tear around like a happy thunderball, but then if you don't follow them, within 2-3 minutes, they will flop down with a HUGE KERPLOP, and stare and stare at you and not move a muscle saying. HEEEEEYYYY! what's the deal, where's the work, the commands. This ain't fun anymore.... I didn't believe my agility friend at first. But as always, he proved me right. Their joy is being with you...But on the flip side, Eluane does not want to leave agility practice either. She will stand there not wanting to leave, until I do at least 5 more closing jumps and tunnel, and not! until I walk toward her as the final warning will she then start heading out the door. I have to keep repeating,"Eluane, come on, come ooooooooooooooooon, it's time to go home..."....Most folks would say I'm a very awful trainer for spoiling her that way instead of demanding immediate obedience when I say, "It's Time To Go Home".....And the only reason why she leaves is because she knows if she doesn't I will pick her up in my arms and carry her out the door. To Eluane this is the biggest disgrace of all. Being picked up and carried out! And just me stooping and pretending I'm gonna scoop her up is enough to scare the bejeebers out of her, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrecar Posted December 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 EGADS!!! I have never ever! heard of any Border Collie enjoying the table!!!! lol, goes to show there are always .0000000000000000000000000000000001% exceptions to the rule, lol! Out of all the courses the table is the most dreaded obstacle of all for almost all border collies! It's so boring for them, and they approach it all hunchy and hump-backed by comparison and the slight droop of the ears, anyone who reads a dog's body language, knows that for the majority of border collies, they tolerate it...They are not thrilled with this thing but they will take it because they have to. Only border collies trained in "conformation or showing exhibit" might be able to tolerate or enjoy a table. But it's not in the Border Collie's nature to enjoy that thing. A border collie wants to be out doing the work and the speed flips and turns... I am glad I got Hannah used to jumping up onto my (very steep) front porch. Maybe it will be easier for her to accept the table, which she hasn't tried yet. Hannah was reactive, barking and carrying on when people would walk their dogs in front of our property. I needed to interrupt that behavior and redirect her focus to eliminate it. So, I would have her run up the porch steps and do a down-stay. That would calm her and stop her from barking. Now if Hannah looks like she's excited about a dog or person coming by, I'll say "don't do it" and "up, up", and she lays on the porch and just watches them. She actually likes to do the whole porch routine now, even if nobody is walking by. We've made a game of it. Hopefully the transition to the agility table will be easier with this as her background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogs & Dogs Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I've never seen a BC hate the table enough to slink up to it with dread. Sure, in the learning stages you have to reward the dog with food/toys while it's on the table to make it a fun place to be. But these are smart dogs and they catch on quickly. Kit likes her table just fine. I just had to tell a little story here about tunnel love... First week of agility class: instructor hands out target plates and demonstrates their use. She sends us home and says to practice and bring the plates back the next week. Second week of agility class: instructor sets up a short tunnel, puts a target plate at one end and demonstrates that we should set our dogs at the other end, release thru the tunnel, and the dog should hit the target plate on the other end. I put Kit in a sit-stay and walk away. I release and indicate the tunnel. She runs thru it and sees the target plate. Her eyes widen, she rears up, and then pounces on the plate like it's a favorite toy. Then she looks at me like "Now I know why we practiced that all week! You gonna feed me?" She got quite a laugh. I think that was the beginning of tunnel love for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 EGADS!!! I have never ever! heard of any Border Collie enjoying the table!!!! lol, goes to show there are always .0000000000000000000000000000000001% exceptions to the rule, lol! Out of all the courses the table is the most dreaded obstacle of all for almost all border collies! It's so boring for them, and they approach it all hunchy and hump-backed by comparison and the slight droop of the ears, anyone who reads a dog's body language, knows that for the majority of border collies, they tolerate it...They are not thrilled with this thing but they will take it because they have to. Only border collies trained in "conformation or showing exhibit" might be able to tolerate or enjoy a table. But it's not in the Border Collie's nature to enjoy that thing. A border collie wants to be out doing the work and the speed flips and turns... That's funny to me. Maddie (yes, only half Border Collie) adored the table. In fact, I had to be extremely careful with her in games not to set her up with a direct line to the table because if there was anything besides the A-Frame that she might have taken uncued, it would have been the table. Dean likes it very well. He doesn't "love" it, but he likes it well enough. No slinking back or hesitation - he runs to it quite readily and is happy while on it. He does look forward to the release, but not in a negative way. And no, Tessa is not trained in conformation or showing exhibit. And yes, she loves the table. It's like a magnet!! To say she has enthusiasm for it would be an understatement. Several times now she has been clearly cued to the tunnel when a table was well off course and she saw the table and went for it eagerly!! She's a beginner, so we are still more focused on building enthusiasm than precision at this point, so I actually love it when stuff like that happens. It may well be in how it was taught. Table training can be just as fun as - if not more fun than - jumping training. It's super simple to build desire for the table and once that's there, positional duration is extremely fun to build. While it is not speed and flips and turns, it is mind work. Every Border Collie I know loves mind games. The table can tap into that very easily. Tessa was afraid of the table when she was introduced to it and got on it only with hesitation. I think her mind turned around on the subject after only two training sessions!! Serena - you may find it difficult to believe, since it sounds like the Border Collies with which you are familiar have made a strong impression of being more physically driven, but Dean actually prefers Rally to Agility!! He loves to move, loves to run, loves to turn, loves to play. But more than anything he loves to think. Agility moves so fast that his thinking has to be continually "on the fly". He much prefers Rally where he can use his brain deliberately and he can think his way through the course!! Speedy has always been more of a shoot first, ask questions later kind of Border Collie, but Dean is a thinker. Tessa seems to fall somewhere in between, which I think is going to be the perfect balance in an Agility partner. Most folks would say I'm a very awful trainer for spoiling her that way instead of demanding immediate obedience when I say, "It's Time To Go Home"..... Well, those folks are a killjoy. If the dog doesn't want to be in the ring, there isn't much point in playing the game. Maddie would often lie down when I went to put the leash on after a run because she didn't want to leave the ring and the game!! That's the attitude I want to see in my dog!! Manifested in whatever way suits the dog!! Of course, Dean is compliant and leaves when it's time, but I not only allow - but encouraged him - to run into the building ahead of me in anticipation of playing the game. What others think is irrelevant (as long as safety is not a factor). Signs of enthusiasm and desire for the game are very good!! A lot of people work very hard to cultivate even a spark of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I am glad I got Hannah used to jumping up onto my (very steep) front porch. Maybe it will be easier for her to accept the table, which she hasn't tried yet. If you find it to be problematic, I'd be happy to let you know what I did with Tessa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrecar Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 If you find it to be problematic, I'd be happy to let you know what I did with Tessa. I may take you up on that. I had to put our Sunday (beginners) Agility on hold though, because I am finishing up some classes of my own, and this is the end of semester scramble. So, it might be a while before we get to the table. Thankfully this instructor does an ongoing, every Sunday training, so it's not like a fixed 6 to 8 week class or anything. It's more flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 EGADS!!! I have never ever! heard of any Border Collie enjoying the table!!!! lol, goes to show there are always .0000000000000000000000000000000001% exceptions to the rule, lol! Out of all the courses the table is the most dreaded obstacle of all for almost all border collies! It's so boring for them, and they approach it all hunchy and hump-backed by comparison and the slight droop of the ears, anyone who reads a dog's body language, knows that for the majority of border collies, they tolerate it...They are not thrilled with this thing but they will take it because they have to. Only border collies trained in "conformation or showing exhibit" might be able to tolerate or enjoy a table. But it's not in the Border Collie's nature to enjoy that thing. A border collie wants to be out doing the work and the speed flips and turns... Ummm, I would disagree. I agree that some dogs don't like the table but I wouldn't generalize to all Border Collies. I have had several who liked it, possibly because I made it part of a game and buily reward and drive into learning the behavior. Its why the weave poles are Argos' favorite obstacle. I built so much drive and play into them that he adores them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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