Sasha's Mom Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Hi all, Long time, no post, but wanted to bounce this off some other BC owners. 4 days ago, I took the girls out on a run. It was faster than usual, but short for us. (Only 3 miles.) Zoe and Sasha as usual, led, pulling me along. It was not unusually warm, nor did anything terribly out of the ordinary occur. I'm training for a marathon, and the girls generally run 3-6 miles with me 2-4 times a week. Later that evening, I noticed that Zoe (4 year old spayed F) was hiding and didn't eat her dinner. This is very unusual, and she seemed to be breathing harder than usual. I watched her for an hour, and ran her over to my vet. She did a thorough physical exam, noted that heart and lungs sounded fine, belly soft, and did some basic bloodwork, all of which was reassurring. She got some fluids and nausea medication, and ultimately ate that night. I ended up taking her home with a short course of antibiotics. Since then, she's continued to just lay around. She perks up for the usual (squirrel!) but when I leashed her up for a run yesterday, she went less then 100 m before she started trailing behind, and I cut the run short. Last night, she couldn't jump up on the bed. She's active, (certainly not just lying in one spot), but she's still not acting like herself. I live rurally, and my first thought was a snakebite (she's a snake killer), but couldn't find any swellings or lumps or bumps. She's on flea/tick/HW meds, but as we all know, they aren't perfect. I saw a little tick on her the other day (hadn't bit her) and pulled a nymph off me, so TBD has crossed my mind. My other 2 dogs are healthy and fine. Zoe hasn't been exposed to any other dogs. I am just wracking my brains and I think we're going to head back to the vet again. Ultimately, I wondered if this could be a tick borne illness. I'm in Florida, so it's certainly a possibility, and we have ticks year-round. I may see about a trial of doxy, but wanted to pick your brains. Her presentation (a vague flu-like illness) wouldn't be out of the ordinary for Lyme or lots of other stuff in humans, but I'm not sure about dogs. (I'm a people doctor, not a vet...) Thanks, Danielle and Zoe (And Sasha, and Nik, who want her back to normal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 I saw your FB post about Zoe and had high hopes that it was something minor and she was getting better after the fluids. I would definitely get her on doxy as soon as possible in case it is a TBD or something like Lepto (we did have all that rain recently). Did she have a fever? Is she vomiting at all, or just acting blah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha's Mom Posted October 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 No fever to my knowledge, and no vomiting. Just laying around. When she couldn't jump on the bed today (twice actually), that is another big red flag. We have an appointment at 5. I'm going to push for empiric doxy, although I don't know if she would show titres this quickly. Lepto, eh? Hm. I wonder what it does in dogs. It causes a nasty relapsing fever in humans, but is quite rare in non-tropical areas (in humans, I mean). We jumped in the lake on that run as well, but we ALWAYS jump in the lake. She did try to eat some nasty old armadillo roadkill on the run that first day, but dog stomachs can usually handle stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 I am certainly not an expert, but this sounds like a TBD to me. I hope that you are able to get more information tonight at your appointment. I hope that Zoe feels better soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Yes, I would test for TBD ASAP (easy peasy 5-10 minute in-house test), but even if it was negative, I would also start doxy just in case (if you can not find another explanation for her behavior). Personally, I think it is very difficult to know when/if one's dog was exposed to a tick when you live in an endemic area because they are so da--ed small. There is no way one could detect a tick on their fur-bearing friend with 100% efficiency. So Zoe could have been infected a few weeks ago and if so, might have a titer. I have been through a TBD with my dogs a few times, and I have also had Lyme -- and I always checked myself, but obviously I missed one of the tiny buggers. So there must have been one that attached for the required length of time to infect me. Eeuuww! How did your 5 pm appointment go? Any specific answers or still a puzzle? Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 As the others have said, I'd be inclined to go ahead and treat for a TBD. Doxy is cheap, and it can't hurt (well, there are potential side effects, but in general it can't hurt) and might help. If she has a noticeable change in demeanor after being on doxy for a short period then you could take that as a positive indication that she did indeed have a TBD. If you really want to be sure, have your vet draw blood and send the appropriate samples to Protatek in AZ. For most TBDs, they are the premier testing lab, and they are supposed to be very helpful if you call them. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha's Mom Posted October 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 My vet, who used to practice in New England, latched onto the TBD diagnosis pretty quickly when I mentioned that I've seen 2 in the last week. She says she's seen very little of it here, but it would fit her symptoms. She did the ELISA office test (heartworms/ehrlichia/lyme), which was negative, but we decided to go ahead with a 2 week trial of doxycycline, and if she gets better, will continue it for a month. She offered to do the send-out PCR (for all 4 TBDs), but noted that it was really pricy and we are going to start treatment anyway. The vet couldn't pinpoint any one sore area, but it was clear that she was hurting, so she's also on alternating rimadyl and tramadol. Poor thing just looks miserable. I managed to get everything in her tonight, although she barely touched her dinner... even after I sprinkled it with cheese. She's taking a few kibbles here or there. I hope that once the pain meds kick in, she'll eat more. The other dogs just don't know what to think. Guess we'll see. The vet said that in her experience, TBDs tend to respond to doxy within 3-5 days, so we'll treat and see how she does. Danielle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 The vets on Tick-L recommend an 8 week course of doxy at 5 mg/lb BID (or broken into more doses if the dog doesn't tolerate it well). If she improves on the doxy, I'd sure keep her on it for 8 weeks. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha's Mom Posted October 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Duly noted. My vet said at least a month, but we have to see if she responds first. I'm hopeful, and will keep you all posted. I don't imagine it would be hard to lobby for 2 months. She's on the 5 mg/lb dose. The tramadol/rimadyl seems to be helping too, as she's a little perkier. And as long as the doxy is coated in peanut butter with a liver treat on top, she's taking them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha's Mom Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I've got my Zoe-Bug back! Pretty much right at day 3 as the vet suspected, she turned the corner. We're on day 4 of meds now and she was raring to go for a run... and led as she usually does. She's moving more fluidly, not having trouble jumping on the bed (and off and on and off and on) and I'm just so glad to have her back!!! Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I'm so glad that Zoe is feeling better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Be sure to complete the full course of doxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yay! As Mark said, keep her on for the full course, no matter how good/well she seems. The biggest problem with TBDs seems to be undertreatment, followed by relapse. And apparently relapses are slower to come around with treatment than the original infection. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Excellent! Glad to hear Zoe is feeling better. Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burdock Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Our Emma tested positive and had a 62 in the blood test did the 30 days of Doxy not showing any signs and is due to go have another blood test in December to see how the count of Lyme is in the blood she is young and strong gets plenty of exercise and good food. We gave her phobics for the replacement of the good bacteria in the stomach that the doxy supposedly kills and make sure she eats before taking the medication. Good luck with the treatment. No pain meds for Emma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 The vets on Tick-L recommend an 8 week course of doxy at 5 mg/lb BID (or broken into more doses if the dog doesn't tolerate it well). If she improves on the doxy, I'd sure keep her on it for 8 weeks. J. Eight weeks, hm? Duncan gimped once or twice on his right front leg the weekend before last. I hauled him into the vet the first day they were open (a week ago today). SNAP test was negative, no fever, no reduction in appetite. No signs of anything amiss in his leg on physical examination. I explained that he frequents places where ticks are EVERYWHERE, so despite the Frontline and the tick collar (and the up-to-date Lyme vaccine), I was suspecting some sort of TBD. In fact I ended up pulling a tick off his neck, right next to the tick collar (embedded but not engorged) a couple of days after he saw the vet. I did talk her into a course of Doxy, but she'll only give it to me for 28 days, and only then she would only prescribe it under duress. (Her concern was antibiotic resistance). I've known too many working dogs that ended up getting retired (or put out of commission for months) from TBD to want to take a "wait and see if it gets worse" attitude myself. Do you think I should just quietly get another six weeks' worth from a pet store selling fish supplies? No limping since that one time or two, thankfully, though he's getting AWFULLY tired of this leash walk only regimen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 TBH, I wouldn't have treated a dog who gimped once or twice and had a neagtive Snap test. I would have taken a wait and see approach, keeping a close eye for any shifting lameness or continued lameness. If I treated with doxy for 8 weeks every time one of mine took a lame step or two, they'd all be on doxy 365 days a year! So in your case, in the absence of any tests to say he has something (and you could always draw blood and have Protatek do a tick panel for peace of mind), I'd just do the 28 days and watch him a while. Don't forget that doxy can cause liver problems (in addition to GI problems), so it's not entirely benign, which is why I generally want to see symptoms (or test results) that indicate treatment should be started. My response to the OP regarding treatment was based on more significant symptoms than just a gimpy step or two. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 TBH, I wouldn't have treated a dog who gimped once or twice and had a neagtive Snap test. I would have taken a wait and see approach, keeping a close eye for any shifting lameness or continued lameness. If I treated with doxy for 8 weeks every time one of mine took a lame step or two, they'd all be on doxy 365 days a year! So in your case, in the absence of any tests to say he has something (and you could always draw blood and have Protatek do a tick panel for peace of mind), I'd just do the 28 days and watch him a while. Don't forget that doxy can cause liver problems (in addition to GI problems), so it's not entirely benign, which is why I generally want to see symptoms (or test results) that indicate treatment should be started. My response to the OP regarding treatment was based on more significant symptoms than just a gimpy step or two. J. Thanks for the reassurance; this was the first "unexplained" lameness he's had (a torn pad last summer; a puncture wound early last spring), and the ticks are so bad I had a flinch reaction. (Plus his trainer had to retire a young dog last fall with heart problems, possibly related to TBD, though she'll never know for sure). At a Patrick S clinic this weekend, all the participants cheerfully practiced vet medicine without a license and said yep, doxy, but I hadn't thought about the duration aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I suspect that it's more likely the rest/leash walking than the doxy that's showing a positive result. Seriously, if you're really concerned about TBD then get the testing done. Then you'll know for sure (or at least better than you do now) what you're dealing with. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogs & Dogs Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I know this thread is a little old, but I just wanted to add... Several years ago I had a TBD of my own. The symptom that I found the scariest was how completely disoriented I felt. It was like I was experiencing dementia, but I'm only in my 20's. I remember feeling like I needed to rest after just a few steps, and even getting my doxy prescription filled was quite a challenge. I also remember a friend calling me to check in and telling him that I'd slept for the last 14hrs straight. Doxy was a huge help - I felt a lot better just a few hours after my first dose. Trying to imagine how a dog would react to similar symptoms, I'm surprised they'd even get up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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