Cheri McDonald Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Okay we start our training after the first of the year and the lady we met at the trial that has graciously said she would start us said in the mean time to make sure Rob has a good recall and a good fast "lie down". He has a great recall, but I have my doubts that he will even hear me if there is a sheep around. Same thing goes for the lie down. Works fine at home or out in the field, add a distraction and I think he would just blow me off. Be gentle you guys, I'm clueless. You should of seen me at the trial, I wanted to bow down to all these people and their wonderful dogs. Here poor Rob and I are sitting and watching in awe! He was a big quivering mass and his eye never left the field. Think he learned anything by watching? I wish. Anyway, any advise will be greatly appreciated and put to good use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla1 Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Until the real trainers get to this, try to: Dog on leash, teach the down right by you (guess that you know how to). Once the dog knows it, keep leash on dog (and an eye on it so it doesn't get in trouble) and ask for it many times when the dog is close by, when you can enforce it, slowly asking at a longer distance. Make it matter of fact, not mad or hurried. Be sure that your dog really knows the word down, is not depending on your body language to understand. Then you can make it a game, where you play a little, then say down and stand very, very still until the dog downs and then play starts again, but don't overdo this. It confirms that downs means "right now" and get's the dog paying attention. Don't worry when you first start your dog around the stock. He will forget you are there for all of ten minutes but then, with the help of the trainer, you will slowly get back into his conscience. Oh, don't forget to smile and have fun, even while being bowled down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Originally posted by Cheri McDonald:Okay we start our training after the first of the year and the lady we met at the trial that has graciously said she would start us said in the mean time to make sure Rob has a good recall and a good fast "lie down". He has a great recall, but I have my doubts that he will even hear me if there is a sheep around. Same thing goes for the lie down. Works fine at home or out in the field, add a distraction and I think he would just blow me off. Well, one thing you will find out is just how great his recall is when he's on sheep! You'd be surprised how many well trained dogs "forget" everything they've learned in the real world when they are out in the field for the first few times. Generally, we always start our new dogs on a long line so we have control. Just keep enforcing a fast lie down and a good recall in as many situations as you can. It will be a learning process for both of you because the sheep will be a new experience for sure. But he should pick up the idea fairly quickly that when he ignores his lie down, he gets corrected, or he gets taken off the sheep. Don't stress, just have fun If you want a real challenge, I'll send you Piper and you can work her on sheep for a while. She'll lie down when you tell her to, and she knows her go-bye and away just fine, but she does it all at 150 mph, so be prepared to get run over a few times ... RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgt Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 In my (not that extensive) experience, if your dog is at all keen you shouldn't expect "lie down" or "that'll do" to be good ways to control your dog while it works the stock *in the initial phases of training*. (IMHO these commands are actually counterproductive while the beginner dog is working.) As your instructor will probably show you, you will use your body position to control the dog as it works the livestock. The down and recall (and maybe a rope) are just used to control the dog as you set up a training session and as you finish one (and even here body position will be crucial). All my opinions, of course. Experts might have better observations. It's very exciting to try a dog on livestock for the first time! When it is your turn to do the training, remember: STAY WITH THE SHEEP! Let us know how it turns out. charlie torre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Charlie is right--most keen dogs forget all they knew regarding down and recall when it comes to sheep. However, from an instructor's POV it does show some sort of commitment from the student if they do have good downs and recalls off stock. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgt Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 That's an interesting observation, Pam, about the instructor's viewpoint. In the same vein, it seems to me that if a person doesn't have good basic control of the dog off of stock, then the dog-handler relationship is likely going to be too weak to provide a good foundation for the much more intense training pressure to come. charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Bingo! Give the man a cigar. Unfortunately too often those seeking to do herding with their dogs are not committed to the effort (not a comment on Cheri). I don't think many realize the amount of effort it can take to do good/proper type of work with a dog. pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheri McDonald Posted December 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Thanks you guys. I also went back to Bruce Fogt's book and reread about positioning and all that. I'm so excited and can't wait to get the chance to see him in action. The trial was a wonderful experience and a real! motivator. Bravo to all of you that do this! You have my deepest respect, and sympathy! What a heartbreak it was to watch some of those dogs take their outrun and disappear over the ridge and see the handler there at the post waiting, waiting, waiting...turns back to the judge, "Can you see him?" Waiting...steps from post and takes that long out down the field. That will be me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Charlie is right--most keen dogs forget all they knew regarding down and recall when it comes to sheep. However, from an instructor's POV it does show some sort of commitment from the student if they do have good downs and recalls off stock.Now, ain't that the absolute truth and Cori did an absolute WONDEFERUL demonstration of that when I started her on stock. She worked the sheep beautifully, except NO DOWN, I was just doing short "walkies" and letting her balance the sheep - it took two of us to catch her when I wanted to get her off teh sheep - and since ONE OF US was too busy laughing their head off at the whole thing, they weren't being very helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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