Teaching Cheyenne to Heel

[Laurie S.]

I've had Cheyenne in an obedience class for the last six weeks, four more to go. I did this on the recommendation of her agilty trainer. She needs more focus since she gets so excited around other dogs and people. When I work with her in the house, in my backyard, or at my office, she does great. She'll sit and down for a hand signal or a verbal and will walk in the heel position fairly well. However, it's totally different in class or when we go for a walk. I've tried all the tricks we were given in class and also have tried using her clicker and treats. She insists on walking ahead of me and she is a fast dog. After about a mile, she'll tire enough that she'll be almost in a heel position. If she does check something out, I keep walking and she'll immediately run to get back into the same position about three feet in front of me. I can hold her in a heel position if I put my left hand on the leash, which I always do when crossing the street to keep her close to me.

 

When I was checking out another bc in my adoption search, the foster owner told me that they prefer to walk out in front and are not good leash dogs. The dog he had walked about 50 feet in front of him and waited at each intersection until he caught up. I walked a couple miles with them and observed this. Is this really true, or can you teach them to heel?

 

I would like her to heel or at least let me have a leash with some slack in it. Sure would appreciate any advice about this.

[JohnLloydJones]

When I was checking out another bc in my adoption search, the foster owner told me that they prefer to walk out in front and are not good leash dogs. The dog he had walked about 50 feet in front of him and waited at each intersection until he caught up. I walked a couple miles with them and observed this. Is this really true, or can you teach them to heel?

 

Senneca is a forge ahead sort of girl, and I had to use the front clip harness (easy walker) to get some semblance of manners instilled. My foster, Rhys bach, on the other hand came with no real leash manners at all, but learned then very fast. He does loose leash walking and is easy to manage. On the agility field and in crowded public places, oddly enough, Senneca heels perfectly. She just knows that our morning walks are, how can I put it, "freestyle". That's probably what that foster owner was trying to say; BCs do have a tendency to think for themselves, and they will jump to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that the heel command doesn't apply here, so you will just have to explain to Cheyenne that you make that call, not her.

[ejano]

Senneca is a forge ahead sort of girl, and I had to use the front clip harness (easy walker) to get some semblance of manners instilled. My foster, Rhys bach, on the other hand came with no real leash manners at all, but learned then very fast. He does loose leash walking and is easy to manage. On the agility field and in crowded public places, oddly enough, Senneca heels perfectly. She just knows that our morning walks are, how can I put it, "freestyle". That's probably what that foster owner was trying to say; BCs do have a tendency to think for themselves, and they will jump to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that the heel command doesn't apply here, so you will just have to explain to Cheyenne that you make that call, not her.

 

I have a terrible time with Robin forging. He's okay on the six foot leash but as we go to the long lead, he's off like a shot leaving me with my heels clicking in the air. He just about killed me walking through the woods and over the rocks and rills on Sunday.

 

He will learn to not pull on a leash and to heel properly. I'm just not sure how yet . I"m planning to work off lead with him on the heel (so he doesn't have anything to pull against) and use the clicker to work in obtaining a slack lead on the long lead. He's pretty responsive to the clicker, so I"m hoping this will work.

 

I did read one obedience book that noted that the dog needs to really understand the position that you want and adjust his.her balance for that position and the handler has to give the correct cues. This book recommended a very short leash to teach the heel then gradually loosen when some control has been achieved. She also noted that popping the leash and pulling back didn't really work if the dog didn't understand where you wanted him/her in the first place...

[Laurie S.]

I've tried the leash popping, too. The thing is that I think she knows exactly what I want her to do, she just doesn't want to do it. She doesn't pull me off my feet, but the leash usually is taut. It's just embarrassing in the obedience class because she is the only dog that won't heel properly. At least she has a great stay. Oh well....

[JohnLloydJones]

I've tried the leash popping, too.

I've never seen that "leash popping" helps; it just annoys the dog. Keep the leash short and hold it so she is close to where you want here to walk. When she tries to forge ahead, she gets the feedback directly from her own action -- not yours. The front clip harness helps (I prefer that to the halti, which many dogs hate with a passion).

[ejano]

I've never seen that "leash popping" helps ; it just annoys the dog. Keep the leash short and hold it so she is close to where you want here to walk. When she tries to forge ahead, she gets the feedback directly from her own action -- not yours. The front clip harness helps (I prefer that to the halti, which many dogs hate with a passion).

 

I agree that the leash popping does not work on a dog that is determined to not listen to the request to heel...it annoys the dog, the person, and everyone around them. I used a gentle leader on Robin with a transition to just the collar and lead and he does well on the six foot leash. The obedience instructor (who is heavy into aussies) suggested a prong collar. I told her no way would I ever put one of those on my dog. The "parents" of a 3 month old German shepherd pup bought into her suggestion and it was horrible watching that poor pup discover the collar when she began to pull. I left the class when I saw that.

 

Someone on this board suggested teaching the dog to walk beside you without the leash first and it works well for Robin -- he's just a puller - but with nothing to pull against, he settles down and tries to figure out what I want. Now if we could only get the same result in on the long lead as well .... He sees something he wants to check out and twang goes the line and he digs in like an old draft horse. We'll get there eventually.

 

Liz

[MicheleS.]

I have competed for a long time in competition obedience and teach *heel position* with a lure. (I use a food lure because my dogs can't focus with a toy dangling in my hand. I later add toys and play as a reward for a great job.) I start teaching the dog the stationary heel position first and then start moving with the lure held in my left hand. I teach a few steps at a time and gradually build from there.

I don't expect my dogs to be great at walking in heel position right away with distractions. I teach everything without distractions first in my house, then in my driveway and then I'll go to a place that has more distractions but at a distance. Then I do the entire process again; just ask for heel position and then gradually build up to walking a few steps in heel position.

I alternate between using a clicker and just voice praise and then reward. (Chase gets more clicker training than any of my other dogs have but that is what he seems to respond to.)

I also teach a "watch me" command and that also helps to get the dogs focus back on me instead of everything else in the environment.

I hope that makes sense.

Even though I do compete in obedience I'm pretty liberal about having my dogs walk in heel position while out on a casual walk. If they do start to pull obnoxiously, I will ask them to heel and that's a reminder to them to stop pulling.

This works for me. I am sure there are others with better advice. Rootbeer comes to mind, she has great ideas.

[bc4ever]

What a timely post. Scooter pulled ahead something awful today--not yank your arm out of the socket kind of pulling, just enough to be annoying. It was a work out--more for me than him! Some days are better than others. I have also been told numerous times that Border Collies aren't good leash walkers. That may be true, but I believe if he can learn other things, he should eventually be able to do this as long as I stick with it and stay calm...stay calm...stay calm....

[geonni banner]

I don't know if this will work for you, but I too think that often a dog does a poor "heel" under distraction or when he/she is out for walkies because they aren't 100% sure what heel means or if it is dependant on setting. I taught Sugarfoot to heel in the house because she had kennel cough when I got her and I didn't want to expose the other dogs in my building. I started by putting the leashed dog in a sit next to me. Then I did a right quarter turn clockwise. I led her into position the first few times with a hand on her collar ("heeeeelll, sit") and cued correct position with a "Yes!" (treat following) Then we did counter-clockwise quarter turns, and then I tried stepping forward one step and then backward one step. She picked it up very quickly since all she had to do was stay in the same position relative to me. One step or turn and sit. Stay with that leg! Later I took more steps and she followed in place. Any time I wanted to STOP heeling I gave her my generic release command which is "free!" and ruffled her ears and head to "break her out."

Mostly in the past I've taught heel by starting out walking briskly and holding the dog in place with the leash at first, but the other way the dog doesn't have to figure out if you want forward motion or what. All she has to do is maintain position using the cue of your left leg. I get much better positioning on the automatic sit this way, regardless of the speed or direction I'm traveling because the dog is keeping one eye on what my left knee is doing all the time. Sugar was a little surprised that heel still meant heel when we went outside, but by working her in many different locations she soon got it.

 

If your dog has any confusion about exactly what heel means, this may help. Sugarfoot especially gets a kick out of it when we heel backwards. She obviously finds herself very clever. I know at least one trainer who teaches what she calls a "head wrap" by keeping a treat at nose-level on your thigh the whole time. I don't care for this because I feel that it causes the dog to think too much about the treat and not enough about what it's doing. If you prevent them from taking the treat they want to change position relative to you to get at it. And I can't think of too many things more annoying than a dog trotting along with its head pressed against my leg.

[Laurie S.]

We just got back from her obedience class and she actually did pretty well tonight, maybe 75 percent good when she's usually 50 percent good. She even was complimented by the instructor, but that was on her stay. At least the success tonight has me willing to keep working. I have tried treat and a clicker and that seemed to work the best. I'm willing to try anything!

[martySQ]

I was using a prong collar on bess, but it didn't phase her too much... it has a stop on it so it doesn't choke... it just looks nasty...

however, because she was still pulling a lot , I switched to a mesh front halter that has straps that go under her front legs and when she pulls, they tighten, and she doesn't seem tolike the feeling in he armpits of that tightening. However, she still will pull if she sees a bunny that needs to be chased, or if she is onto a really fresh scent of something out by the lake.

She always wants to be in front, int he house and in the outside. "Got to get there first even if I am not sure where you are going!" I expect it will dettle down with time.

[bc4ever]

Okay, armed with all the great advice, we're off for another walk! We can do this!!

[Laurie S.]

Okay, armed with all the great advice, we're off for another walk! We can do this!!

 

 

I feel better knowing that I'm not alone on this!

[martySQ]

I feel better knowing that I'm not alone on this!

 

 

I look at it this way... one of the things about the breed I love so much is their exuberance for nearly everything that involves their human (with the exception of baths in muy dog's case)... so this is just part and parcel of that whole thing... I think age will settle it down some.

[2 Devils]

Have you tried the turning when pulling. If the dog pulls, you turn around and go the opposite direction, then turn around and go back the original direction? These types of walks don't get you very far at the beginning but they do work. Instead of turning and going the opposite direction you can also just stop walking altogether and not move until the dog is focused on you again.

 

I have also seen folks take a long wooden stick and put peanut butter on it and walk around that way so the dog is getting a constant reward for being in heel. I have never cared enough about heeling only not pulling to even think about doing this.

 

When I choose to teach a heel I will do it with the turning around or a leash pop depending on the dog or a little of both. When done correctly a leash pop can work.

[geonni banner]

Have you tried the turning when pulling. If the dog pulls, you turn around and go the opposite direction, then turn around and go back the original direction? These types of walks don't get you very far at the beginning but they do work. Instead of turning and going the opposite direction you can also just stop walking altogether and not move until the dog is focused on you again.

 

I have also seen folks take a long wooden stick and put peanut butter on it and walk around that way so the dog is getting a constant reward for being in heel. I have never cared enough about heeling only not pulling to even think about doing this.

 

When I choose to teach a heel I will do it with the turning around or a leash pop depending on the dog or a little of both. When done correctly a leash pop can work.

 

The about-face method works very well for forging, but timing is important. Most people just don't lean into the turn hard enough either - you've got to grip the lead with both hands, get your elbows down and turn fast and keep moving. It's important not to cue the dog verbally.

[Laurie S.]

I did try the turning around method, but got dizzy. I think I'll give it another try.

[Root Beer]

One thing to watch carefully when teaching a heel is the placement of your reward. Most of us tend to just pop the reward into the dog's mouth when the dog is in proper position, but for a dog who does not fully understand the position, it can be extremely helpful to deliver the reward right at your leg. For a dog who forges, you can hold the reward slightly behind heel position (next to your leg). When working on this at first (at home, no distractions), let the dog find the position where he or she must be to get the reward. You can use a little luring at first to help.

 

I started using this recently for backwards heeling and it made an instant difference. Because Speedy forges when heeling forward, I deliver his reward at my leg, slightly behind heel. When heeling backwards, I do the opposite - feed at the leg, slightly curled in, slightly ahead of heel.

 

It has made a major difference in his basic understanding of the position that I want. And it has made a big difference for me in my own approach to teaching a solid heel.

[bc4ever]

I did try the turning around method, but got dizzy. I think I'll give it another try.

LOL! Yes, we've done the turning and walking the other direction thing and after a while I got a little dizzy too! That seems to work better for Scooter than just stopping. When I stop, he sits and waits patiently, but as soon as we start to move forward, he's trying to get out ahead again. I'm sure it's something I'm not communicating correctly to him.

 

Today's walk was better till a woman with a stroller walked by and said, "Ohhh..what a beautiful dog!" and put her hand out to pet him. He barked and backed up. She said she had a Golden Retriever at home. Sooo, she has a dog, but still doesn't know how to approach a strange one? After that he was too distracted to care about heeling. But, he's a work in progress. I'm reading with interest all the suggestions posted here and trying them out to see what works best. There's just so much to learn--for both of us!

[MaggieDog]

Kristine has a great point on the location of the treat delivery. It's something I have to remember myself in heeling practice sometimes.

 

Could part of the heeling issue be the lure you mentioned? Perhaps Cheyanne has a hand signal (lure hand) that hasn't been faded yet? I see this a ton with my students when they are teaching sit and down - they inadvertantly use a hand signal and then when they don't put it in the sequence like they used to the dog's performance suffers.

 

This is how I teach LLW and heel in my basic and advanced classes - perhaps this is similar to what you're doing with the clicker? I use a choose to heel method with c/t. It can be done on or off lead, but I prefer off-lead since many dogs use the leash as a cue to pull/forge/etc.

 

The basic premise is that you walk an a random fashion (lots of turns, few straight lines) and whenever your dog is in the "magic box" (invisible floating "box" that is your reinforcement area) near heel position they are clicked and rewarded. If off lead they can meander away with no consequence other than no c/t, if on lead I will stop when they move out of the box and then return to moving and c/t when they are back in the right area. The box starts out large (i.e. 2x2 or so) and then shrinks to perfect heel as the dog gets the idea. High rates of reinforcement can be especially helpful in the beginning stages; you can start to wean the dog off c/t as they "get" the idea.