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training smaller breeds for agility


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So this isn't a border collie question, more a general dog and agility question, but I think it is an interesting idea to ponder and would like other peoples thoughts.

 

About 18 months ago I started helping w/ my trainers beginner classes as her assistant and have taught one beginner class as the main instructor. Then have been teaching at a second facility as a head instructor. And I just got hired at this large doggy day care to be their agility instructor, I'm pretty excited, the facility is air conditioned/heated and they deal w/ all the paper work, I just show up and teach :rolleyes:

 

So a few weeks ago I was asked by someone who had cocker spaniels if I'd ever trained a small breed dog. Well I've helped other people train theirs and I've handled a few here and there in practices and such, I had a small dog as a child, but didn't train her for agility, just for farm life.

 

So my question is: How important do you think it is for an agility instructor to have train/competed w/ small, medium and large breed dogs?

 

When I started taking agility classes this wasn't something that had ever even crossed my mind, my trainers at the time ran shelties and poodles. However, as I progressed into intermediate classes and met a trainer that ran working aussies, I did learn a lot of things about my timing especially that I hadn't been taught. My students who have small dogs seem to be doing well and not having issues so maybe I've answered my own question, but I just thought it would be interesting to get others input.

 

Also, for fun, if you were to get a small breed, what would you lean towards. If we ever did that it would definatley come from rescue, but I'm interested in knowing what border collie owners might like to own in a smaller package :D

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It is very important to have experience with small breeds if you are going to be teaching small breeds. I help teach beginner agility, and I only work with dogs that will jump up to 16" because where is my authority to help them when I don't even do it myself? Sure, I run my friend's 22" BC at a few trials a year, but I never trained her, which is what matters.

 

Running a small dog is totally different. It may take them 7 strides to reach the next obstacle whereas it takes a big dog 3. That's alot of time for the dog to be moving in a straight path, so obstacle focus is key and an efficient path must also be taught. If you look at faults in any given class, generally (there will always be exceptions) most small dog faults are from off-courses, while big dog faults are from knocked bars and missed contacts.

 

The difference between running my Schnauzers (12") and my friend's BC is huge. With the BC, I can just run as fast as I can and point at the obstacles. With my guys, there's alot more work involved and often times I'm more tired after running them. Mal is 17.5", so 16" AKC and 22" USDAA, so he is a medium dog, but runs like a big dog, so I wouldn't rely on just my expertise, I've gone out get the advice of other BC trainers.

 

Now, don't let this deter you from training these cockers. It depends on how competitive she wants to be. If it's just a hobby, then go for it. If she's serious and wants to go far, then perhaps you should take on an assistant with small dogs are attend a seminar geared towards small dogs - Webb Anderson did one a few years ago called the Big/Small challenge, it was really good, he might still be doing them.

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I have only ever been able to find big dog trainers really in agility and I run a 7 lb dog. We have only ever trained with aussies and border collies. There's certainly differences. She's by no means slow but just due to leg height, I can almost always outrun her. She has great focus and drive and is personally a lot less likely to go running off course than the bcs we train with. It could just be my dog. The worst for her is she takes quite a while to get the teeter down to the ground. :rolleyes: Oh and she loathed the tunnel for the longest time. If there was water in the tunnel, you could just plain forget it.

 

Also, for fun, if you were to get a small breed, what would you lean towards. If we ever did that it would definatley come from rescue, but I'm interested in knowing what border collie owners might like to own in a smaller packag

 

Personally paps are the only small dog I'll ever have. Everyone sees I have 5 toy dogs and assume I like little dogs but I really don't. I just like a breed that happens to be small. I've had shelties in the past too which I loved but I much much prefer the pap personality. More outgoing, I think they're smarter though the intelligence lists would say otherwise, my shelties were just plain lazy too. Some paps are super lapdogs and then others are nearly as intense and intelligent as a tiny border collie. I have some of both... well all mine are smart one just could care less what you want her to do. :D

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I can't answer anything about training small dogs because I never have had the experience. Although I can see that there are some big differences in how you might train them.

If someone forced me to pick a small breed to own, it would be a papillon. The ones I've seen and known make me think *border collie of the toy breed*. I also think they're cute :rolleyes:

 

Michele &

Gypsy &

Chase

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A great way to get small dog experience is to borrow small dogs to handle, in practice and in a trial. Same thing with slow/unmotivated dogs. Takes varying handling styles for different dogs and if you're going to teach all types, you at least need to know how to handle all types. I'd also suggest absorbing as much as you can at a trial by watching other teams at all levels, yes even the slow/unmotivated and zoomy beginner dogs. Good luck!!!

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I'm a serious agility student and have been competing for a few years and am beginning to get frustrated with the local instructors who basically use the same recipe that worked for THEIR dogs. This is fine, if you happen to have a dog with a simuliar style, but not so fine if you have a dog that doesn't follow the recipe. So, I think that if one wants to teach agility they should have experience with a wide range of dogs. One can get away with limited experience at the backyard and novice levels, but eventually serious students are going to leave and go to another instructor or give up entirely and train in their backyards and at run thrus.

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I couldn't agree more with what Blackdawgs said about instructors using the same recipe for every dog. I'm in the situation now where, although my instructor is experienced and knowledgeable and has given me what I consider a great foundation, I know she runs slower dogs. My dog is fast and I can see that my instructor is struggling with being able to help me since we are putting more sequences of obstacles together. It also makes it worse because all the dogs in my class run more like the instructor's dogs. It's frustrating enough for me to be at the point now where I think I need to consider finding another instructor :rolleyes:

I've had to learn more on my own and do more on my own (alot of good information here).

 

Michele & Chase

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Thanks for the great comments. I agree with Blackdawg in feeling like a good instructor of anything needs to recognize that not all pupils are going to learn the same way. After years of riding horses and feeling much frustration with this concept and various trainers I don't feel like this is an issue for me. I recently had 2 english bulldogs in a beginner class, I wouldn't even think about training 2O2O w/ them, we used running contacts, I felt like the class as a whole really appreciated seeing and having explained a different technique and the pros and cons of both. As far as the unmotivated dog goes, I had a toller in class for 2 years and he still thinks that jumping and running across the top of the tunnel is quite funny, Smudge is a complete ham. I think like anything else, agility trainers let their egos get in the way and won't turn to another for ideas and help when the get stumped with an issue. This definately isn't my personality, but I'll keep an eye on myself not to let it happen. I've always been a big supporter of going to different handlers/seminars/trainers for assistance and taking away what I like and leaving what I don't and plan on encouraging my students who are driven to compete to do the same.

 

I kind of feel like getting a pap in the future might be cheating the one's I've know have always seemed like mini border collies :rolleyes:

 

Thanks for all the input from everyone!

Wish me luck

Jewls

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I kind of feel like getting a pap in the future might be cheating the one's I've know have always seemed like mini border collies :rolleyes:

 

Lol, that's why I love both breeds. My favorite pap is about as close to a mini bc as possible and my new pup (as several members here have heard) is giving me a run for the money intelligence wise. I'm pretty sure I'll end up sticking with these two breeds forever.

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Also, for fun, if you were to get a small breed, what would you lean towards. If we ever did that it would definatley come from rescue, but I'm interested in knowing what border collie owners might like to own in a smaller package :rolleyes:

 

 

Maybe a Pap, Sheltie, or poodle, but no matter what small breed I chose I would want a dog that was really motivated for agility. Honestly, I can't imagine any other breed that enjoys agility more than Border collies---Mini Border collie? (just kidding. no flames, please).

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Freeman....not to disagree exactly....but kinda.

 

"...a dog that was really motivated for agility."

and

"....breed that enjoys agility more tha border collies..."

 

I have run one very successful border collie, and have a young one that's just coming up. Both totally LIVE for agility - to the point that I can't train one without the other going nuts if we're in sight (yeah, another training issue I just haven't bothered working through....).

 

However, I used to run a 75-80 pound malamute/shepherd/something mix in agility. He was a sweet boy, though not particularly "agile," not particularly consisent, and not particularly fast. However, I do think he TOTALLY enjoyed doing agility! He always ran with a big smile on his face, and finished with that same smile. OK, maybe he didn't APPEAR to enjoy it as much as my BCs do....but I don't think that "enjoyment" necessarily equates with "ability" or "motivation." I dunno - guess it's all semantics. I'd just like to see more mixed breeds these days. At the USDAA Rocky Mountain Regionals - in one class of 54 dogs, there was nothing but border collies (including mine...) and a few aussies. Sigh.

 

Makes me think I'd like to compete in Britain in the ABC class....anything but a collie!

 

diane

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Also, for fun, if you were to get a small breed, what would you lean towards. If we ever did that it would definatley come from rescue, but I'm interested in knowing what border collie owners might like to own in a smaller package :rolleyes:

 

 

Every now and then I think "Jack Russell" and then I give it a second thought.

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