SoloRiver Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Solo has severe arthritis in one hip and probably has arthritis in his back (never been x-rayed there, but shows all the signs and every vet he's ever seen thinks he does). Most of the time the arthritis doesn't seem to bother him much -- he hardly uses his right hind leg to run and has an awkward gait due to that, but otherwise he does not limp and is not reluctant to do things like chase balls. I manage him with Adequan and joint supplements most of the time. He used to be on Rimadyl daily, but ever since we moved out of the city it has been unnecessary and I give it to him only when I think he might need it, like after a long hike. He has also taken Metacam but it almost killed him (GI bleeding) so he doesn't get Metacam anymore. Occasionally Solo will have what look like acute pain attacks, during which he is extremely distressed and cannot get comfortable. He cries, paces, attempts to lie down in different positions and gets back up again, chews on his hindquarters, and licks his forearms and front legs obsessively. He will make what look like escape attempts and try to hide under tables, chairs, go out into the backyard and then want to come in again, etc. His hindquarters and tail are usually tucked under him and his back is usually hunched. During these episodes, he is irritable and appears frantic and disoriented, and is likely to go after Jett or Fly if they come too near. I have some Tramadol that I give him when these attacks occur and usually it seems to alleviate the pain, although it also seems to make him seriously stoned. The attacks usually happen at night, so I give him the Tramadol and then sit up with him for several hours while he "walks it off" as the Tramadol makes him pace endlessly. Eventually he'll lie down and go to sleep and is usually fine the next day, other than he usually doesn't have a bowel movement the day after an attack. But he had a really bad attack last night and is still unhappy this morning. Since the Tramadol doesn't seem to be working, I've given him a Rimadyl and am hanging out with him while he paces around. He's been to an emergency vet for these episodes twice and neither could really figure out what was wrong with him, which is why I don't want to take him to one now -- it's not really their purview and the visit will just stress him out more. I am going to discuss the problem with his new regular vet next week but in the meantime he is an unhappy pup. There is little rhyme or reason to what triggers these attacks, except maybe stress. My mother was visiting last week and Solo had to be confined a lot as he is not reliable around her. Has anyone else dealt with anything like this and do you have any advice? I hate seeing him like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 I will PM you once I am off work. Have to get the last patient out the door... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 It sounds like he is in pain but possibly not the back/hip area. Could he be having some kind of stomach spasms/pain? Poor Solo... I know it sucks when you just don't know what the problem is because you can't really fix it. Hope you can get some ideas and find relief for Solo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted September 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 It isn't abdominal -- both times he went to the ER they (and I) suspected bloat but his abdomen is not tender at all. It really seems to be in his spine and hips. A friend of mine was just tentatively diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis. I realize right now I am in a position where everything sounds like what Solo has, but it does sound kind of like what Solo has, down to the acute pain attacks. That said, it could be any number of things. I'm currently researching anti-inflammatories. He's already on fish oil but I think I am going to throw something else at him and try putting him back on a grain-free diet as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedismom Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 I have a deteriorating disc in my neck. These discs sometimes cause pinched nerves which are pretty much hell as far as pain goes. Painkillers do nothing for them. The only thing that has helped me manage it is regular chiropractor visits. I'm telling you this because my first dog when he was about 13, was diagnosed with deteriorating disc disease. You could see it on the x-ray all along his spine. If I knew then what I know now, I would have taken him to a vet chiropractor and also for acupuncture. Perhaps an x-ray would give you more information. I hope his distress subsides and he gets better soon. Poor handsome Solo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 You should get radiographs of his entire spine, to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 My middle kid's best friend has ankylosing spondylitis. Not a great diagnosis. But she is, at least, getting some treatment that works. Before this, she'd been treated for everything from plantar faciatis to MS - with "it's all in your head" a constant. At least they never tell dogs that. They may tell us that our dog's problem is, but they'd get bitten if they tried that with the dog. Didn't know that dogs got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Most dogs middle age and older have spondylosis. My Boy was diagnosed at age 7 when we X-rayed for something else and his bone spurs--long enough to nearly fuse even back then (he's14 1/2 now)--showed on the radiograph. The internal medicine specialist we were seeing said this is often how spondylosis is discovered (incidentally, when X-raying for something else). Boy is extremely stiff and lame and is clearly uncomfortable when his spine is bent/arched, like happens sometimes when I pick him up even though I try to be very careful (I have to help him up stairs often now), but he doesn't seem to get acute pain episodes. I have deterioration of the vertebrae in my cervical spine, and like Jedi's mom notes, when it hurts, it hurts like hell and nothing really seems to help. I would lean toward a pinched nerve/disc problem as the cause of his pain episodes. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 I can offer no advice or help, but certainly sympathy for you and Solo when he is in pain. I'm very sorry and know you must be very concerned for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdawgs Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 I've had two dogs with back disease, so I'm familiar with that hunched up posture. The Mini Schnuazer had intervertebral disc disease and would occasionally need trips to the e-vet for injectable steroids. At the end of his life, he was maintained on oral prednisone and valium with acupuncture treatments. The acupuncture was very helpful for him. My now 8 year old mix was diagnosed with spondylosis about a year ago---this was a few months after quitting at an agility trial. She had somehow injured her SI joint, but after that was addressed the muscle spasms and heat never went away. During her acute episode (She slipped in the wet grass while romping around with the Border colllie), her back was so hot that I actually thought that she was running a fever. Now that things have calmed down, she can't (or won't ) weave anymore and sometimes has difficulty holding her 2 on 2 off contacts, but strangely jumping doesn't bother her. She still competes, albeit at a reduced level without weaves and a reduced jump height. For her, massage is very helpful and at her worst, the pain was eleviated with 3 days of metacam. Anyway, alot can go wrong with the back and I think that you need a diagnosis. I would suggest an orthopedic and/ or neurological work-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Melanie, I'm so sorry you and Solo have been going through this. Has he ever had steroid injections for his spinal pain? That's what helped Minnie when she had an acute attack and painkillers did nothing to ease her discomfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesney's Girl Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 Sorry to hear about Solo! I hope you can find something to help him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 How's he doing now, Melanie? I have no advice, just good thoughts for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet_ceana Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I don't really have anything signifigant to add. I get muscle spasms in my legs and they always happen at night. My father gets mucsle spasms as well and he swears by upping potassium to help make the spasms end sooner and happen less frequently. I eat a bananna every morning and it seems to help. Maybe upping his potassium or giving Solo a bananna would help even just a bit if he is having spasms. Poor Solo, I hope he starts to feel better soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussiedawgs Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Solo has severe arthritis in one hip and probably has arthritis in his back (never been x-rayed there, but shows all the signs and every vet he's ever seen thinks he does). Most of the time the arthritis doesn't seem to bother him much -- he hardly uses his right hind leg to run and has an awkward gait due to that, but otherwise he does not limp and is not reluctant to do things like chase balls. I manage him with Adequan and joint supplements most of the time. He used to be on Rimadyl daily, but ever since we moved out of the city it has been unnecessary and I give it to him only when I think he might need it, like after a long hike. He has also taken Metacam but it almost killed him (GI bleeding) so he doesn't get Metacam anymore. Occasionally Solo will have what look like acute pain attacks, during which he is extremely distressed and cannot get comfortable. He cries, paces, attempts to lie down in different positions and gets back up again, chews on his hindquarters, and licks his forearms and front legs obsessively. He will make what look like escape attempts and try to hide under tables, chairs, go out into the backyard and then want to come in again, etc. His hindquarters and tail are usually tucked under him and his back is usually hunched. During these episodes, he is irritable and appears frantic and disoriented, and is likely to go after Jett or Fly if they come too near. I have some Tramadol that I give him when these attacks occur and usually it seems to alleviate the pain, although it also seems to make him seriously stoned. The attacks usually happen at night, so I give him the Tramadol and then sit up with him for several hours while he "walks it off" as the Tramadol makes him pace endlessly. Eventually he'll lie down and go to sleep and is usually fine the next day, other than he usually doesn't have a bowel movement the day after an attack. But he had a really bad attack last night and is still unhappy this morning. Since the Tramadol doesn't seem to be working, I've given him a Rimadyl and am hanging out with him while he paces around. He's been to an emergency vet for these episodes twice and neither could really figure out what was wrong with him, which is why I don't want to take him to one now -- it's not really their purview and the visit will just stress him out more. I am going to discuss the problem with his new regular vet next week but in the meantime he is an unhappy pup. There is little rhyme or reason to what triggers these attacks, except maybe stress. My mother was visiting last week and Solo had to be confined a lot as he is not reliable around her. Has anyone else dealt with anything like this and do you have any advice? I hate seeing him like this. What you're describing sounds a similar to something I had been experiencing off and on with my dog Cowboy. Cowboy has a transitional lumbar-sacral vertebra that gives him an odd gait and when he's gotten too much exercise (ie taking off and abusing his body chasing deer) - there has been inflammation. Things got definately worse this summer. Crating him didn't help - sometimes it would be worse coming out of the crate. I finally had a total orthopedic work up done on him (something we had last done when he was young) and xrays of hips, knees and spine. The xrays showed spondylosis - not in the lumbar-sacral region, where I would have expected it, but higher up lumbar/thoraxic - you could see the the long spines of the bone spurs and in addition, decreased disk space between the two affected vertebrate. What this meant was things like curling up in a crate were not comfortable or he stiffened up, plus he had gotten to the point where he was probably in some degree of pain much of the time - he was grumpy with the other dogs, clearly uncomfortable when working sheep, refusing to jump and leaving the ring when pressured to do so even on low heights (no wonder!) and all along we had thought it was a training issue. I wish I had demanded xrays sooner but the vet I was seeing before didn't think them necessary. He is now on rimadyl and the difference is astounding. We no longer do competetive obedience (no more jumping other than his normal hikes) - but he is back to working sheep, back to being a happy boy and moving a lot more comfortably. What I've been told is in spondylosis - it is most painful during the process of fusing but once fused, there is relatively little pain though there is great loss of flexability. If there is also loss of disk space then there could be pressure on the nerves that would come and go in a seemingly unpredictable fashion. Dog's are very honest in telling us when they hurt, but with some of these high drive workaholic dogs - it's hard to read the message. I hope you find out what is going on - I know how worrisome that can be Hope Stewart & Cowboy (Aussie) and other assorted Aussiods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted September 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Hi all, Solo is doing OK now (back to normal for him) but I want to prevent any further attacks. The last one was so bad it was scary. I'm going to talk to his vet today about what we should do. Bringing him in for exams is a production as he needs to be sedated. He had x-rays done the last time I took him to the ER for an attack, when we were in San Francisco, but they were to check for bloat and I don't know if they really imaged his spine. Thanks for all the good wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herdcentral Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 One of my dogs has similar experiences periodically. One type of attack she gets is from her back leg and hip area having had bilateral cruciate surgery in the past and has a certain amount of arthritis. I think she gets cramps and spasms and I have learnt by experimentation how to ease them. A physio showed me how to correctly apply massage and it provides my dog with great relief. Sometimes I have to work on her for about 15 -20 minutes and sometimes several times over the course of the attack. She knows the drill now and when she has her attacks, instead of running around with her tail tucked between her legs and trying to hide, she presents herself to me for treatment. The second type of attack she gets is abdominal and this case she stretches her back legs out one at a time and does what appears to be lots of stretching to try and ease the pain. She also wanders around trying to get comfortable. In this case she gets a tramadol which helps ease the pain. I give her 24 hours off food and she is good. We first thought it was pancreatitis but tests came back negative on several occasions. Good luck and I hope you find a solution as it is very upsetting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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