Denise Wall Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Hi all, Due to a few requests here and privately, I'm going back and digging up these old May training videos. As I find them, I'll repost them. They go through 23 months. I more or less ran out (aged out) of open dogs a year ago and due to ongoing health problems with myself and some of my dogs, I've not been trialing or even working dogs much this year. I hope to run May in Open at least a little this fall. If I do, I'll try to show what she ended up like as a competitive trial dog. Trials aside, I consider her to have ended up as a *very* good using dog with quite a bit of scope in different work situations. She's now 2.5 years old. First off, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not trying to set myself up as some kind of great trainer. Because I'm not. Just average. When I trained horses and at least for a while training dogs, I'd say I had and used the lightening fast timing and correction techniques so effective for many. I don't know whether I don't have it now, or if I'm just too lazy anymore to use it, but now I try to think about it and set things up ahead of time so things are pretty calm and relaxed as much as possible. And so I can use the sheep and sheep pressure to teach the dog as much as possible. I find I enjoy training dogs more this way at my age. In addition, May is the fourth generation of my dogs and also the fourth generation where I've found too much pressure from me causes them to become hard and fight me or come in wrong on the sheep. As time has gone by, I've mostly figured out how much pressure will be enough to get a response from them while still feeling a (hopefully) good effect on the sheep, but not so much as to cause them to fight me. I don't like to start battles that make it only about me and the dog. I want it to be about me, the dog *and* the sheep. That said, in watching this now, I see where my too sharp and fast kind of barking at her on occasion does exactly what I say I'm trying to avoid. Watch especially at the end, where my voice correction causes her to cut off the end sheep as she goes around. As I watch, I think a lower, more drawn-out growl would have been much more effective. Also my body pressure could have been slower in places. Anyway, there's not too much in this first one. Just a beginning exposure. I would've never made any pre-judgements about how she would turn out using this video. http://vimeo.com/5237059 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoga Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Thanks for reposting them, Denise. I was silent after noticing they'd been pulled because I was unsure of your reasons and didn't want to pry. Cal is 16 months now, and watching you and May has been really helpful. I'm quite sure I'm not alone in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bo Boop Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I didn't know that you had pulled them from youtube, but am glad that you are reposting them. I very much enjoyed watching May's progress. Sorry you are having health issues, hope things get better for you soon, and that you and May enjoy success on the trial field. Betty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Thanks Denise. I am so glad to be able to see these videos again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I am deliriously happy you've reposted now! Now I've got a new hooligan to bring up and I'll be looking at these over and over. These videos were incredibly helpful when Ted was starting. Regarding "Border Collie Eats Pumpkin" or whatever that was - videos like that appeal to the 4 billion or so people who have internet access who don't necessarily like dogs. Your work is a TREASURE - I hope you continue to allow us to share it. Um, at least until Sam is trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 May I suggest these be "pinned" in the training section? Then it would be easy to use them as a reference when referring to unfamiliar training concepts for newbies, not to mention a good comparison for those who are wondering whether they are making progress. Denise, what kind of foundation did you put on May before starting on sheep? I notice she has a down, and of course a recall. I always start out having to chase my pups around to stop and recall them, or start them on a line. I like how she's not fighting you here, though I know she's plenty keen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted June 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Thanks to all for your nice comments. Denise, what kind of foundation did you put on May before starting on sheep? I notice she has a down, and of course a recall. I always start out having to chase my pups around to stop and recall them, or start them on a line. I like how she's not fighting you here, though I know she's plenty keen! For beginning foundation before stock, I did what so many working dog people do, I just tried to make a good (well-behaved) dog out of her. I had a recall off sheep ahead of time. I don't really remember but I'd say it basically happened pretty naturally either from watching the other dogs come to me when called and running with them, or from consistently expecting it from the time she was a pup (no treats involved!). The "down" I got, what there is of it, on sheep. I don't think she knows what "lie down" means off stock to this day. I'm sure I had to put sheep in a corner, get between them and her and catch her at some point in the beginning though. Also, I actually did have a short line on her in that first video in case I couldn't catch her. And I do step on it one time to enforce a lie down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 I actually did have a short line on her in that first video in case I couldn't catch her. And I do step on it one time to enforce a lie down. Gotcha. That's good to know. My computer doesn't load these quite right so I missed that - I'll look next time on our "good" computer where I can watch full screen. The Smidge (Sam) is coming up on sixteen weeks old - time flies so fast with a pup! I want to give him the best start I can so his first lessons on stock can focus less on things like "coming when called" and "don't freelance." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Thanks for reposting these Denise- really loved the replay of that good nose grip she's got (on the 10 month video). Nice job on her breeding and training! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted June 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Thanks for reposting these Denise- really loved the replay of that good nose grip she's got (on the 10 month video). Nice job on her breeding and training! Thanks Jamie. If they've got to grip, better that clean nose grip. As an aside, grip patterns (where on the animal they grip) are something I've found to be very heritable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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