Do border collies have more temperment problems

[Tommy Coyote]

Boy it sure sounds like a lot of people here are dealing with serious temperment issues.

 

I['m lucky right now because both of my dogs are very sweet and stable. But I had several in the past that had really severe problems. (all rescues) It seemed to me like their problems were a combination of their own personalities plus some serious mishandling my their former owners.

 

That was the main reason I got Tommy as a puppy. I just wanted one dog that I raised myself that didn't have a zillion problems. Not that raising her myself was any guarantee that she would be a nice, stable, friendly dog. Luckily for me she has a wonderful temperment.

[Cody & Duchess]

Hope that people in the know answer this question. Cody, our full BC, is such a sweet dog that I am under the impression that BC's are smart, loyal and kind - that they are the "perfect" dog. I know that there are a lot of incredible dogs reading this site , but has Cody lulled me into a false sense that BC are the most extraordinary dogs around and pretty easy to train?

[Smokjbc]

I don't know what the statistics are, or even the measure. But I do think many well meaning people get a border collie and expect an exceptionally bright Lab or Golden Retriever. Border collies are quirky, in Don MacCaig's words (IIRC) "more than a little odd". I've only had one that I thought had temperment issues, and it wasn't aggressive at all, more nervous/shy. But all of my dogs might exhibit behaviors that would make a normal pet owner worried. A few of my dogs might bark at intimidating strangers or occasionally myself if I've just showered and have my head up in a towel . I've got one that herds ants in the backyard, if I didn't know better to discourage the behavior, I'd have quite a problem on my hands, but I wouldn't consider that a "problem" more of a quirk that should be managed. The same herding ants dog went through a period as a pup where she thought the white spot on her tail was something to be watched out of the corner of her eye and occasionally "punished". Again, simply discouraging the behavior and she doesn't think twice about that big white tip of her tail .

 

Of course, being quirky dogs in general, if you start breeding dogs based on things other than working ability, you might lose that stability of temperament required for a dog to handle the training it takes to be a good sheepdog. I also believe that part of the reason we can control these dogs at a long distance is that they are sensitive and breeding away from that (without going to extremes of course) might result in dogs that are not biddable enough to do what we ask of them. Since there are way too many border collies being bred for no good reason whatsoever, it makes sense that there are some dogs with behavioral problems out there that would have been weeded out had they been bred to a working standard.

[Jumpin Boots]

I've got one that herds ants in the backyard, if I didn't know better to discourage the behavior, I'd have quite a problem on my hands, but I wouldn't consider that a "problem" more of a quirk that should be managed. The same herding ants dog went through a period as a pup where she thought the white spot on her tail was something to be watched out of the corner of her eye and occasionally "punished". Again, simply discouraging the behavior and she doesn't think twice about that big white tip of her tail .

 

 

Those little quirks are why I love border collies, but also why most people shouldn't have them.

[juliepoudrier]

You might find this thread interesting as it relates directly to your question: Why all the temperament issues? (paraphrased) It's a long and rather interesting discussion on breeding and temperament issues and all sorts of other stuff. It's been a while so I don't remember if there was also any real arguments/ugliness, but if so, you can look past those and still find good information.

 

ETA: If any of you weren't here for the discussion to which I posted the link, please read it. It is very informative!

 

J.

[SoloRiver]

People whose dogs have problems are far more likely to post than people whose dogs don't. Or, people are far more likely to post about dog problems than about when things just run their courses.

 

My Fly is the most stable dog on the planet. She is bombproof (literally -- you could explode ordinance next to her and she would maybe blink), totally appropriate in all interactions with other dogs, and trustworthy with any human, including small infants and toddlers with grabby hands. She has zero prey drive, does not notice cats, and has actually tripped over rabbits that she flushed while chasing balls. She is sweet and cuddly and happy All. The. Time.

 

Only a very small fraction of my posts are about Fly because there just isn't much to talk about most of the time. Solo, on the other hand, provides a veritable gold mine of topics to choose from. And my Jett is a rather normal puppy, but the longest thread I've posted about her addressed her personality changes when she went into season, during which time she decided that Fly had to die. Now that Jett is back to normal (and off at herding school) I don't post much about her.

 

Border Collie owners may also tend to be more tenacious and likely to seek information, I don't know. My guess though is that if you read any breed-specific bulletin board the majority of posts will be about issues people need help with, including behavioral issues.

[Root Beer]

Most of the dogs that I work with in my classes have temperament issues to some extent. Occasionally, I run into situations where the dog's temperament is stable and the owners simply need training help, but more often than not, there is some degree of temperament issue with these dogs.

 

I work with fearful dogs, dogs who are easily stressed by things that seem silly to us, reactive dogs, "guardy" dogs, hyperfocused dogs, motion sensitive dogs, and dogs with stimulation issues.

 

The vast majority of these dogs are not Border Collies. Some are, sure, but I've worked with Shelties, German Shepherds, Goldens, Boxers, Lab Mixes, Aussies, a Saint Bernard, a Dalmation, a Swiss Mountain Dog, a Lab, etc. in these classes.

 

And on the flip side, I've run across plenty of Border Collies with fine temperaments.

 

I don't think Border Collies have more temperament problems than other breeds per se. Not based on the wide variety of dogs of other breeds that I've worked with who have issues.

 

It makes sense, though, that here we pretty much mostly hear about Border Collies with issues. Out in the world, of course, there are many, many, many dogs of all different breeds who have issues.

[sweet_ceana]

But I had several in the past that had really severe problems. (all rescues)

I justed wanted to throw out there that not all rescue dogs are abused or have temperment problems. Of course some do, but I would say the majority do not. Dogs are amazingly resilient and forgiving. Rescue dogs are not defective, they are just in need of a forever home.

[herdcentral]

Most of the BCs I know, including my own are mainly stable, including rescues. They are not a breed I have thought of as having temperamment issues, not where I live anyway. But then I dont live in the city and most of my friends have always had herding dogs so know what they entail.

 

I have met the occassional BC with temperament problems but not often. I also do agility and havent noticed any major problems there either.

[PSmitty]

I justed wanted to throw out there that not all rescue dogs are abused or have temperment problems. Of course some do, but I would say the majority do not. Dogs are amazingly resilient and forgiving. Rescue dogs are not defective, they are just in need of a forever home.

 

Thank you!

 

I don't think Border Collies have more temperament issues than any other breed. I bet if you started hanging around other breed specific message boards, you'd read plenty of problems there.

 

Just from my own little sample of dogs I know with issues (either dog or human aggression), here's how it breaks down:

 

Golden Retriever-2 (both have dog issues and one I am very leary of, I think he is borderline human aggressive, too)

Standard Poodle-1 (dog aggressive)

Soft coated Wheaten Terrier-1 (this dog was euthanized for human aggression)

Aussie mix-1 (dog aggressive, little beeeyotch attacked my Alex and left marks )

Sheltie-1 (fear aggressive/reactive to both humans and dogs. I say reactive, 'cause I'm not quite sure I'd call him aggressive yet. Definite "issues", though)

BC mix-1 (fear aggressive/reactive to unknown dogs only. This is my Jack.)

 

None of the Border Collies I know (10+) have temperament issues at all. And Alex, while he can be shy, he is otherwise rock steady with all people and all dogs (and yes, he's a rescue).

[PSmitty]

Oops, double post, sorry!

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

People are more likely to post about problems they are having because this is an outlet and a great place to find info or suggestions on how to deal with said problem specific to the breed of dog you own. Not to mention, telling your story in hopes of helping someone that is dealing with a similar issue.

 

I've taken a few classes that deal with reactive dogs etc. and I've been the only border collie in any of my classes. We've had pointers, a sheltie, a rough collie, a toller, a french bulldog, some mutts, quite a few small breeds and a lab. There are about 6 border collies in my neighbourhood and mine is the only one with a problem as far as I can tell.

[sixx]

I'm no expert on this one. A lot of bc's I have known have quirks or are reactive, but there have been plenty I have met that are super sweet. It seems that every breed can have these issues. I've met mean black labs, aren't they supposed to be the "perfect" family dog?

 

Seek used to be severely reactive to lots of people. It was almost overwhelming. I bought a bunch of books by Pamela Dennison on positive training methods. I started being really positive with Seek and making things in her life happy and fun. She has changed so much, it's pretty amazing. She rarely reacts now. And if she does she calms down quickly and can become friends with the person within a minute or two. Whereas in the beginning there was no calming and no such thing as befriending, just "get the hell out of dodge!"

 

One day she reacted at me, which was interesting to see what it was like to be the person being reacted to. I came home with sunglasses and a hat on. I opened the front door and came in, Seek freaked out and was barking and growling at me. She didn't know it was me. I then told her it was me and took the glasses off. She was still a little scared of the ordeal and walked over to me slowly. She felt really bad for barking at me, and walked over to me as if she was in big trouble, with her head down. I kept using a cheery voice and telling her that it was okay (She was just doing her job anyway, protecting the house). Maybe it was good that she freaked out at me in sunglasses and then realized it was me, it might have helped desensitize her to sunglasses... who knows. When I first got Seek I would wear big hats and glasses (those things freaked her out), in hopes to show her that big hats + sunglasses does not = bad. Strange men lurking and following us in the woods... that's something to worry about.