Frustrated with group classes

[Carlasl]

It is not really the classes or the instructor, it is just how Skye reacts in a group class setting...she doesn't seem to like it and I don't know how to make it fun for her.

 

We took 6wks off of group classes to work on Skye's confidence and just trying to have more "fun" with agility and I wanted to work on her fears with the groups teeter alone.

 

The past 6wks have been a lot of fun for us, we go to the building first thing in the morning when no one else is there and she LOVES going and playing, we spend a lot of time doing really short sequences and working on her contacts. I always stop occasionally and we play ball and chase and things like that. She really does act like she is having fun.

 

Switch to a group setting and she is anxious (but not horrible, or shut down) just pants and doesn't really focus on me like she normally does. We were doing drill exercises with one jump last night and she got bored (she HATES anything repetitive), and she tried to leave the building a few times, so I would have to correct her for trying to run off (she about got attacked by a labradoodle one of the times). Then she gets upset from the correction (verbal only, I make her down when she starts to take off).

 

How do I make this fun for her in a group setting.......? She has a blast when it is just her and I, plays ball, plays tug, works for lower value treats (lower than hotdogs anyway).

 

In a group class she is only slightly food motivated and only for hotdogs and only if she hasn't eaten all day. She won't play with her tug or ball in the group setting either.

 

Anyone got any tips......?

[Journey]

Try to get her to just relax in the class. Don't ask her to "do" anything, just be there and relax. As time goes on then start asking for 1 thing at a time, it will require patience on your part. If you ever want to run her in agility you need the class atmosphere due to the tension and excitement at the trials.

 

Good luck!

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I agree. It's obvious that she's over her threashold. I would either do what Journey suggested or take a different class that has a smaller number of dogs. Like a class for reactive dogs. The usually keep the numbers down and work on very basic things so the dog has a chance to get comfortable in a strange environment with other people and dogs around. You could also try just a basic obedience class or something like that too. I took the same recall class twoce so that my dog would get comfortable working in a fast paced environment with a lot of her triggers present. She did not need help with her recall, it was just an opportunity to work with her in a controlled environment with a lot of triggers present and no pressure (on either dog or human) to learn anything. It worked really well. We still participated in the games etc. but when we were doing one on one stuff, I would just play on a variation of "Look at that!" or practice eye contact etc.

[Jumpin Boots]

In addition to what was already said, I would eliminate all corrections. If she has habit of taking off either leave a leash on her, or a long (like 10 feet), light ribbon attached to her collar with a few knots in it so that if you step on it you can catch her, then just reel her back in and continue on. As far as repetition exercises go, neither of my dogs can handle much repetition either. So in a class setting I would do what the instructor is having you do for a few times, then do something else on the flat. Directionals, behinds/arounds, basic obed. exercises, then back to the drills the instructor is having you work on. I would also work on getting her interested in the toy, may some short fetches on the side, if she'll play tug when alone, she can learn to play with other dogs around too.

[Alaska]

Maybe you need more intermediate steps between just the two of you alone vs the whole class present. Can you persuade one other person - someone who has a dog Skye is pretty comfortable with - to show up in the morning, so Skye can get used to doing agility with just one other, low-stress dog around? Then try variations from there, e.g.:

 

- Skye plus two easy dogs present

- Skye plus one dog she's not as comfortable with

- Skye and you alone but closer to the normal class time, maybe just after it so the other dogs' scents are still around

- Skye plus you plus a friend, but no extra dogs

- Skye plus you plus instructor (i.e. a private lesson)

- Group class, but just come in, do one thing, only one thing (like a tunnel), celebrate big time, and leave for the night

 

Basic principle is to change only one variable at a time, and make something easier at the same time you add a new challenge to the setting. She's much less likely to go over threshhold that way.

[mbc1963]

My dog doesn't love group classes, either. The more crowded, the less he likes them. I think he feels like he not only has to do the class work, but also has to constantly be on alert for other dogs who might run up to him and get in his face. I don't think Buddy is ever going to be able to lose his watchfulness when around other active dogs; he's gotten better, but it's still something that tips him over his threshold pretty quickly.

 

Honestly, I'm not too keen on the whole thing, either: the drive, the money, the free time lost. I'd rather be taking him on a good long walk in the woods. So we've retired.

 

Mary

[Pippin's person]

One of my dogs is much the same way--we're taking a "Control Unleashed" course now and that is helping noticeably. If you want to see if you can make the classes less stressful, you might get a copy of the book or the DVD set and try that program.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

One of my dogs is much the same way--we're taking a "Control Unleashed" course now and that is helping noticeably. If you want to see if you can make the classes less stressful, you might get a copy of the book or the DVD set and try that program.

Also a great idea! I've got the book and DVD set. I've read most of the book and haven't started the DVD yet, but this is where I picked up the "look at that" game I play with Daisy in class situations. I find she really does relax if she can see the dogs (instead of direct eye contact with me) and watch them for a bit. Then when she is focusing on me, she's not as worried about someone coming up behind her or whatever goes through her little brain.

Alaska has also given great advice.

[Root Beer]

One of my dogs is much the same way--we're taking a "Control Unleashed" course now and that is helping noticeably. If you want to see if you can make the classes less stressful, you might get a copy of the book or the DVD set and try that program.

 

Dean is similar to Skye in group classes. He gets very nervous - he doesn't handle social pressure well at all. We are down to just one Agility class for him and I bring him in from the car, run him, and take him out.

 

But, he is my demo dog in my CU classes. He's as comfortable as can be in that setting. He's not even in the class, but he seems to understand that it's different from a regular class. Nobody would know he gets anxious in group classes. He heels around the room eagerly, he plays the games, he does everything I ask and he's eager to do so. But if I wanted him to do the same things in a Rally class or a Freestyle class or an Agility class, it would shut him down. He knows the difference somehow.

 

Carlasl - my recommendation would be to get the CU book and/or DVD and work the exercises with Skye. I'd start at home and then move them to the training building when you are alone. From there, get a dog or two to come and join you. From there, go back to a regular class, but only stay for 10 or 15 minutes. My goal would be to leave while the dog is still comfortable. I'd put no expectations on the dog at first to do any of the actual class exercises. The time for those will come once you get the comfort level.

 

Dean has really made me think about my priorities when it comes to training and dog sports. I've come to the point with him where I'm not going to try to make him enjoy something that he is worried about. These days when we go to Agility trials, he only gets entered in one class, which I pretty much scratch, and then he just hangs out with us. He enjoys that. He doesn't like the social pressure that comes with an expectation to perform. He really likes just going along and hanging out. So that's that for now!

 

At home he adores doing Agility, working on Rally exercises, and dancing. He simply doesn't want to do those things in a class or competition setting. So be it.

 

But if I do get to a point where I want to try doing more formal training and activity with him and I think he's ready to try it again, I would follow the procedure that I outlined above.

 

When it comes down to it, you can't make a dog like something and you can't make a dog stop being anxious. Sometimes it gets to the point where you either have to let it go or back up and take it at a pace that the dog can handle.

 

If the dog is trying to leave, it's time to back up, lower expectations, and focus on making things better for the dog and not worry about class goals.

[ZoZo]

The good thing about Control Unleashed (and maybe the confusing part) is that it is tailored for each dog and the issues they have. The first 5-10 minutes of every class we go to is simply having your dog lay on their mat and be massaged to get them calm.

 

I'm taking my dog, Zoey, to a second, CU advanced class now and I have to say again what a Big Deal this has been for us. I think she may be the poster dog for this course. People come up to me and comment on how they have noticed a major transformation in her. She's gone from wild BC (completely over threshold) to calm and focused on me. At the class a couple nights a ago, she had the leash off almost the entire time, remained calm and sat next to me waiting for instructions when we were not working (that was not typical for her in a social situation). This is while other people, dogs, noise, treats and different activities are going on right next to us. Obviously, not all dogs respond as dramatically, but I do think CU offers a lot of resources that can help any dog.

[Carlasl]

Thank you everyone you have given me some very good ideas.

 

Control Unleashed has been purchased and hopefully will soon be on its way. After I read the book I will probably get the DVD set as there are no classes available around here.

 

I know a lot of it is me needing to lower my expectations. I want to do agility, when I was looking for a new dog I specifically was looking for one that the rescue thought would do well at agility (I totally understand it is just a assumption that a dog would do well not a guarantee). I think another one of her problems is, is that she needs things broken down to the most basic level and built up, if she thinks she is not doing something right she starts to shut down. Once she figures it out, she is all about it, but trying to teach her new things is a HUGE effort in patience for me (not my best quality anyway). It is also a bit of a blow to my ego that she cannot seem to figure out what I am teaching her right away (I was a zookeeper for years and have clicker trained about every species of animal out there).

 

Anyway, I am not ready to give up on her yet because I really think she could be good and can like it. I just hate that it isn't fun for her now.

[ZoZo]

It is also a bit of a blow to my ego that she cannot seem to figure out what I am teaching her right away (I was a zookeeper for years and have clicker trained about every species of animal out there).

 

Ha! I know that feeling well. Some do need more encouragement than others- our rescue dog Jinx took 15 MONTHS to get him trained in flyball, I kid you not. He's actually very intelligent, I think he was over thinking everything. Zoey picked all this up pretty fast. Talk about an ego deflater. It took a major effort from many team members at practice to help out-think his over-thinking and get him to do it the way he needs to do it for speed and his safety (his nickname is Crash!). Incredibly, he got his first NAFA Flyball Dog title a couple weeks ago and everyone on the team gave him a big cheer when he got his points. Plus he's one of if not the fastest dog in the club, so that really felt like a victory! It's amazing what these dogs can teach us.

 

They told us no dog fails in CU, you just lower your criteria, I love that!

[Carlasl]

OMG last night was soooo much better.

 

She was nervous when we came in the door and tried to hide under a table.

 

I got out the treats and started asking her to do a few things to get her mind off of what was going on around her. And she settled down really well. We each took turns doing short two jump drills for front and rear crosses and she LOVED it, she was focused on me most of the time and never seemed over threshold at all. I was totally prepared to back way off today but never needed to. A couple times when she was off lead for her turn she went to go greet another dog ( a problem of hers, she LOVES other dogs) but she was called off easily and came right back to me.

 

I am hoping my control Unleashed book comes soon. I really think it will help with her focus. One of hte issues I have with her, is that she is not toy motivated at all, and food only slightly, her biggest motivation is OTHER DOGS, she LOVES other dogs, she thinks everyone wants to play. I guess this class will be really good for her to learn to ignore other dogs. as all the dogs are in the arena together, there are usually only one or two dogs unleashed at the same time, but still the distraction is there.

[Lenajo]

She should not be off leash in the class environment to practice the running off pattern of behavior. You either will need to complete the sequences on lead (quite doable, as I've seen some British trainers work who don't have the dog off lead until nearly completely trained....when owners whine, they just say RUN FASTER lol) or have a tab on her that you get immediately after each sequence.

 

when she runs up and gets in another dogs face not only does she risk being justifiably pinned (or attacked if the dog has less social skills) but she sets the other dogs up to be reactive because they are being "attacked" on leash.

 

Corrections *might* help her, or they may crank both her and the other dog up. If you do correct her, the reason to stay with you must be all the better. Otherwise she will have 2 bad options to choose from, which equals lots of stress.

 

YOU have to be more fun that the other dogs. What are you doing while you wait - are you interacting with her? or ignoring her while you chat with other handlers? What treats or toys are you using to keep her attention? what games? Is the wait too long? Perhaps you need a timeout crate in the area she can go in if she's at her limit of attention skills during longer waits. What's her "relax" command where she can just sit/stand/lie and observe without being expected to do anything but that?

 

Waiting in line is the first control skill many agility dogs learn. It makes all the difference in how they perform. Ask your instructor for help. If they have any skills at all they will realize they need to get the whole class on board with this.

[Lenajo]

if you want to get her to play with toys try googling for Susan Garrett's "creating a motivating toy". It's also in her Ruff Love book.

[Carlasl]

YOU have to be more fun that the other dogs. What are you doing while you wait - are you interacting with her? or ignoring her while you chat with other handlers? What treats or toys are you using to keep her attention? what games? Is the wait too long? Perhaps you need a timeout crate in the area she can go in if she's at her limit of attention skills during longer waits. What's her "relax" command where she can just sit/stand/lie and observe without being expected to do anything but that?

 

Waiting in line is the first control skill many agility dogs learn. It makes all the difference in how they perform. Ask your instructor for help. If they have any skills at all they will realize they need to get the whole class on board with this.

 

 

You are absoutely right I am going to make a tab this weekend for her to wear. I need to work on her recall with distractions, it has always been an issue with her. Like I said other dogs are her biggest weakness, and honestly I am not sure there is ANYTHING, that will ever be more fun to her than other dogs .

 

As far as waiting in line, I have tried to toys, but she is totally uninterested. Right now, I am using treats (hotdogs are her highest value treat) having her do simple tricks (hand touches with her nose, sitting, laying down) my focus is totally on her. She actually sits and waits pretty well, she will usually lay down at my feet and just watch what is going on. There is one particular dog in class she wants to play with (a huge labradoodle) and when he is running she lunged at a the leash a few times to go "play" with him.

 

 

My copy of Control Unleashed JUST showed up as I was typing this. I am sooo excited and know how I am going to spend my weekend!

[Root Beer]

My copy of Control Unleashed JUST showed up as I was typing this. I am sooo excited and know how I am going to spend my weekend!

 

I suggest that you start doing the mat work (Chapter 4) and teaching Look at That (Chapter 5) as soon as possible. You can go back and read the rest of the book to fill in the blanks later!