Northof49 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I have a young bitch that I am just starting to work on sheep and I need to use a drag line on her. This is the first dog I have had to use one on, so I am not sure how long it should be and what type and thickness of rope. I use a very light yellow nylon rope for my long line recall work, but I'm thinking it is too light. My shortest one is 50 feet long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I use 3/16" to 1/4" cord fashioned into a slip harness that fits around the dogs rib cage and then attaches to the collar. I have three lengths, 10' for just around the yard and puppies that I use in place of a leash, 25' for at hand work and 50' for when I build distance. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I use parachute cord with knots tied in it for stepping on. I usually use this only on dogs that are not my own and are coming out to try working sheep. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseAmy Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 With my devil pup would not leave home without it. I use a medium weight cord about 50 feet long with knots tied every 2 feet. Don't forget to wear gloves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think Julie's version of a cord brings up the "it depends factor", it depends what you want to use it for, I had not thought about that different people use cords/lines for different purposes. What one person wants in a cord another does not, for example: I don't want my cord to bind or get caught on anything so I don't want knots in it, if I use the cord to help my dog I want it to feed effortlessly through my hand when the dog is doing the right thing, knots don't allow that to happen. I also want my cord to be a clear communication tool between me and my dog so I don't want it to stretch when I'm using it. Something I have seen people do while using a cord is to try to catch the cord to stop the dog, as opposed to using their physical being to get between the sheep and the dog to facilitate the stop, then go and pick up the cord while making sure the dog stays put. Something to remember when you are chasing the cord, you may also be chasing the dog, unintentionally accelerating them into the sheep or away from you with your body pressure. Also, depending on the position of the dog relative to the sheep, where you step on it may sling the dog into the sheep, if the dog was flanking around and you stop the flank the momentum may slice the dog right in. Just some observations that I have had while watching others using cords as catch lines, when I saw it happen I wanted to make sure to make a mental note to myself realizing that not being aware of my actions may actually cause my dog to do what I don't want it to. I got to watching for it after discovering that Jake was so pressure sensitive that my motion to go and get the cord would send him off, especially when I bent down, once I realized it I took care to bend down away from him and he stayed put until he understood that I was just picking up the cord and not telling him anything, it was a lightbulb moment, "I gotta be more careful what I'm communicating unintentionally." I guess this goes back to stops, as to if you are using the cord as the primary means to stop a dog, which is not my purpose so the cord I use will not be fashioned to facilitate that function. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I will primarily be using it to catch the dog up. She is very keen and fast, and doesn't want to come off the sheep. I plan on using my body to control the dog's movements with respect to the sheep, and have someone else pick up the line. I have used a line on dogs for walking up on sheep, and working on lie down, etc, and have just used my recall line for that, but I have never used one as a drag line, so I was not sure what I shoud use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I use 3/16" to 1/4" cord fashioned into a slip harness that fits around the dogs rib cage and then attaches to the collar. I have three lengths, 10' for just around the yard and puppies that I use in place of a leash, 25' for at hand work and 50' for when I build distance. Deb So this is not just a cord for catching up a dog, but applies pressure on the rib cage? Just curious as to why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 So this is not just a cord for catching up a dog, but applies pressure on the rib cage? Just curious as to why? It increases discomfort if the dog continues to pull actually putting the correction and the cure in the dogs court, you just hold the line, it's their job to seek the release, but you have to be careful to not take up the cord and hold pressure when the dog is giving in, because then your just punishing the dog, kinda the same premiss of a choke collar but it does not choke. You don't end up putting pressure on the neck or collar and when you want to move the dog over left or right you can roll them back over their hunches vs. dragging them on their front end. It also seems to create less panic and does not snap the dog around causing the action of pulling their eye off the stock, you can stop the body without pulling their head toward you. You can do things like stop the dog in line with the sheep vs. pulling them off line which easily happens when you stop them with the cord on the collar off to the side, I guess it could be simular to neck reining a horse and using your leg to steer instead of plow reining and using no leg, you can move the horse over without pulling his nose out of position. It's really handy for leash breaking pups, makes it really simple and the pups just want to follow the lead, when you are consistent with your release. Every one of the 5 pups I have here started their leash breaking on cords with a loop around their ribs, when I switch them over directly to the collar it was like they had been leash broke from the day they were born. I always have a 10 footer in my pocket. The cord also feeds out between their shoulders and over their back lessening the occurance of them stepping on it. The cord will actually track in right behind them, with a real light 50' cord in grass for resistance you can actually see the path the dog took when you get them stopped, the cord will tattle on the dog, if it's lying in a comma shape your dog flanked then slipped into a drive or fetch, if it is in a hook your dog maybe started out right but then sliced if it's in a nice arc your dog flanked out nice. If your dog is flanking and you ask him to stop but he cheats in toward the sheep before he stops, the cord will tell the tale. There's alot you can use a cord for, it's just a matter of figuring it out and developing feel, but there's also a risk of relying on it and turning it into a crutch, just like any other tool or even a leash, you don't want to use it as a restraint. It kinda reminds me of one of the horse trainers I used to work with, he was awsome with a bosel, he said that training a horse to handle correctly with a bosel was an art. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 It increases discomfort if the dog continues to pull actually putting the correction and the cure in the dogs court, you just hold the line, it's their job to seek the release, but you have to be careful to not take up the cord and hold pressure when the dog is giving in, because then your just punishing the dog, kinda the same premiss of a choke collar but it does not choke. You don't end up putting pressure on the neck or collar and when you want to move the dog over left or right you can roll them back over their hunches vs. dragging them on their front end. It also seems to create less panic and does not snap the dog around causing the action of pulling their eye off the stock, you can stop the body without pulling their head toward you. You can do things like stop the dog in line with the sheep vs. pulling them off line which easily happens when you stop them with the cord on the collar off to the side, I guess it could be simular to neck reining a horse and using your leg to steer instead of plow reining and using no leg, you can move the horse over without pulling his nose out of position. Deb It would be similar to ao couple of the no-pull dog harnesses that are on the market. I had planned on putting a regular dog harness on her for the drag line, as I didn't want it attached to her collar. Do you have a picture of one of your dogs with the line on them, just to make sure I undestand it correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 It would be similar to ao couple of the no-pull dog harnesses that are on the market. I had planned on putting a regular dog harness on her for the drag line, as I didn't want it attached to her collar. Do you have a picture of one of your dogs with the line on them, just to make sure I undestand it correctly? It's hard to see it on the dog, but this is Bandit: I'm going to try to explain an easy way to do it, tie a leash snap on to the end of a 25 foot cord, snap it to your dogs collar, then roll the collar around so that the snap lays on the top of his neck with the cord going toward his butt. Then hold the snap and feed the cord down behind his front legs around the ribs, back up and run the tail of the cord through the ring of the snap where it attached to the cord, pull through all the excess. The cord should easily release with the loop around the ribs getting bigger or small depending on pressure or release. To stop the loop from getting to big I take one of those plastic draw string stoppers that you find on jackets or on lawn chair bags, feed the cord through it and set it so that the cord can't release to much. I think in the picture you can see a stopper just above Bandit's back. Let me know if this makes sense. I've seen people at agility meets do the same thing with the regular leashes, only often times they end up with the loop way back by the dogs hips, by feeding through the snap you can keep the loop right behind the front legs. The ones I use regularly have a seperate ring for the cord to slide through that is tied close to the snap, this allows me to use a real small light weight snap on them, especially for my puppy leads. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think Julie's version of a cord brings up the "it depends factor", it depends what you want to use it for Yep, for me it's a back up for dogs I don't know that I might need to get hold of (stop) fast. Once I know a dog can be trusted to stop from body pressure or that it isn't going to rip into my sheep (main concern), I don't bother with a cord (for example, I had a dog here this past weekend who hadn't been here before but wasn't terribly keen, so the cord came off in about 30 seconds--there was no need for it). J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Bovee Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I have used several weight cords of various lengths for various reasons. I wish I'd read the post about speeding up pressure sensitive dogs by trying to find or step on the cord earlier.... (years earlier).. I've just put a really long 100ft very light line on my clappy dog so I have some means of enforcing (or encouraging) the 'walk-up' from a distance and without going toward the dog which just reinforces the down for him. I'd used a line on him earlier to get his attention when he booked out to deep pressure. I'm sure is ears were "off" by then. Nancy b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I've used the method Deb describes. Learned it way back when I first started. I mainly use it for teaching a strong puller to quit jerking me around. it is self correcting and releasing. I've also seen people slide it all the way back to the waist, giving to me what seems to be a belt tightening action if the dog is pulling. I used it on my sisters Rott who was a terrible puller. Worked like a dream. Hard part is weaning off for a hard puller. I use a cheap long training line I bought at walmart for keen dogs that I worry about sheep for. It's about 3/4's inch wide and flat. The dog definatly knows it got a line on it. But it can also really slow a dog down un-naturally if it's on a dog that really doesn't need it. I've also made my own with laundry cord. I like cotton better than nylon. Doesn't burn as much if it catches your leg or hand without gloves. Once I have any control on a dog, it comes off or quickly becomes a crutch for us. I have knots tied in it too, just to be able to catch a dog on the fly if needed. Otherwise it slides right out from under your shoe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I use a really light leash-type line that is used to train scent hounds. I'm not sure what it's made of but it's soft as silk, flat instead of round, and 50 feet is lighter than 25 feet of typical nylon or cotton training cord. I like it because I can tie lots of knots in it and they are larger and more stompable than knots in cord. I never pick up a moving training line. Trying to stay out of the way of one while training is bad enough for me - I am greatly motivated to ditch the line ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Trying to stay out of the way of one while training is bad enough for me - I am greatly motivated to ditch the line ASAP. I have a funny, well at the time it wasn't so funny story for that, when I first started Jake I let him go off on his own to find his way, well his way was to run as hard as he could to the head and not stop for anything until he arrived firmly in the draw, get the sheep to move and then run hard again to get them to stop. Anyway, I decided to try a cord to help get him stopped, things were going good he was dragging the cord and we were working the sheep in a relatively small area. He had given me an inside flank, then flanked around behind me, what I had not noticed was the cord had ended up around me, all of a sudden Jake went into his panic get to the head mode, all I heard was whish, whish, whish, my stomach sank realizing the cord was coming to get me, next thing you know my feet were tore out from under me and I landed flat on my back with my feet tied together as Jake slammed into the end of the cord, I then felt it burn it's way free, he still made it into the draw, true to from, not stopping for anything. That really hurt, in more ways then one. Drove it home that the cord was not a good tool for stopping a dog that has no stop. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I Drove it home that the cord was not a good tool for stopping a dog that has no stop. And yet that's the only use some of us have for a drag line. Different strokes and all that.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I know some people use lines to shape flanks and work on stops, but frankly I've never been that coordinated . And I'd worry about how much I was losing of the dog's natural method if I was physically shaping the flank myself (not that we don't shape them in general, but if I "made" the dog flank correctly from the beginning,would it really be representative of that dog's innate ability?). I only use mine for that'll do training- Jet liked to fake compliance until my guard was down, a few days hitting the end of the line (admittedly, a piece of baling twine with a big knot at the end) fixed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMSBORDERCOLLIES Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 And yet that's the only use some of us have for a drag line. Different strokes and all that.... J. Yep. It's the only use I can see for one too. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 >>I only use mine for that'll do training- Jet liked to fake compliance until my guard was down, a few days hitting the end of the line (admittedly, a piece of baling twine with a big knot at the end) fixed that. << That runs in the family. Joss and Jade do the "fake compliance" trick too. I had a drag line on her and called her off and she did a mental calculation in front of me to come or not and went back to the stock and I held on, it stopped her and that's all it took. Once she started to come, then she got to work the stock more. From then on, she figured the faster she would get back to me, the faster she could get back on stock. Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokjbc Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 >>I only use mine for that'll do training- Jet liked to fake compliance until my guard was down, a few days hitting the end of the line (admittedly, a piece of baling twine with a big knot at the end) fixed that. << That runs in the family. Joss and Jade do the "fake compliance" trick too. I had a drag line on her and called her off and she did a mental calculation in front of me to come or not and went back to the stock and I held on, it stopped her and that's all it took. Once she started to come, then she got to work the stock more. From then on, she figured the faster she would get back to me, the faster she could get back on stock. Diane It's a little scary how you can see those little brains tick off how they can get away with it LOL... how is Tait doing btw..I saw on Ron's blog that he got hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 "fake compliance" Yep that was Dew. She'd be all sweet right at my feet, then I'd turn to the gate and off she'd sneak and she knew she was sneakin.. like Diane said, a few times and now she's all happy to get back to me, she's just sure I'm going to send her again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Tait is out of the Finals. He will recover but it will be a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy V Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I use the cheapest cotton cord I can find in the store and cut it down to whatever lenght I want. I keep one long lead and one short lead. The short one started as a long one but was broken several times by an eager young dog. The long one is progressively getting shorter, as I just recently cut off 12 feet or so to jury-rigged an emergency prolapse harness. Both cords are knotted in several places, both on purpose and inadvertantly. I have also used a heavy horse lead rope if I wanted extra drag on the dog. All leads were used for the express purpose of catching a young dog or enforcing a down. Wish I didn't need them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 "Making it easier" to come when asked is all I really do with it currently also. My training experience is not at a universal zenith so I'm not saying it's all I'll ever use it for in my future career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.